Navy Picket/Screens

[Xerxeskingofking]

completly hypothectical question:

A Imperial navy BatRon (in this case 6 ships strong) is deploying to the Macguffin system on the edge of the imperium (which edge is unimportant) for an extended time. It is not expecting a full combat situation, but at the same time, it is expecting to see some form of action (be it anti-pirate, police actions, etc).

what would be the size and composition of the defensive screen attached to it? would it even have a screen (i assume so, but am not familar enough with traveller large scale space combat to know if thats plausible)

 

[pendragonman]

Depends on the composition of the BATRON. Supposing it to be composed of dreadnoughts with sizable fighter compliments, I am not sure that escorts would be needed for much.

However, if you are looking for strategic space control, perhaps a bunch of Gazelles and a few Chrysanthemums for stiffeners. Maybe a couple of Marine troop transports with dropships would be my guess.

But just a guess.

 

[mbrinkhues]

It's save to assume a BatRon is more than six ships. They will have a sizeable fleet train of

Tankers, Supply ships and/or Dromedaries (Combination tanker/supply) since many of the bigger ships have limited self refuelling capacities

Escorts for the fleet train. At least Chrysanthemum or FerDeLance, possibly the 3000dton Midu Argashan Destroyers. I would not rule out a light carrier

Courier ships to remain in contact with higher quarters. The staff weenies like to know where their fancy toys are

If extended ground combat is expected than a group of Goontrooper ships (GT Ground Forces has a Batallion-transport) and those will add more supply crafts and escorts. For minor ground opertions ships crew will do

If extended ground combat is expected they may add a few bombardment ships and similar nasties




Besides: WHY is a major fleet asset currently being wasted on a destroyer job? Some local airwaste<<<Noble pulling strings to impress his mistress?

 

[Hemdian]

I looked at this issue several years ago for a campaign I was running at the time and came up with this first attempt. There are a few issues with it (like far too few transport vessels) but if you just need something quick-n-dirty for your campaign this might do.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

It's save to assume a BatRon is more than six ships...




...Besides: WHY is a major fleet asset currently being wasted on a destroyer job? Some local airwaste<<<Noble pulling strings to impress his mistress?

just becuase they don't expect combat, doesn't mean that their won't see combat. Units deployed near the Solomani and Zhodani borders would be thier to deter their counterparts form acting, even if they don't ever fire a shot in anger.

Also off the top of my head, possible reasons to do somthing like this include:

Showing the Big Stick during talks with a pocket empire just outside the boarders (ie "we are taking the civil option by talking to you. please do not make us use our considerable ability to ruin your day and aggree to our demands.")

A simple, honest to god fleet exercise ( maybe some simulated battles, testing of logicistic abilites in the area, etc)

ensuring control of a "chokepoint" system, where deployment of SDBs and monitors has not/ can not be done.

back up for a smaller scale op (for example, a intervention in a war between minor powers. the BatRon is the heavy brigade, not part of the assualt team but thier to pull thier asses out of the fire)

pre-positioning of the squadron in case of a contingency (for example, two client states going to war)

 

[rancke]

I would have at least three squadrons of fleet couriers attached. Not all of the couriers would be present at the same time -- some would be on their way to and back from Fleet HQ and keeping in touch with detached units. The minimum of three is to allow the commanding admiral to split up into individual divisions (a division is two battleships plus appropriate auxiliaries).

I'd also assume one large (4-5,000T) escort per battleship. Probably a variable number of smaller escorts as well.


Hans

 

[mbrinkhues]

just becuase they don't expect combat, doesn't mean that their won't see combat. Units deployed near the Solomani and Zhodani borders would be thier to deter their counterparts form acting, even if they don't ever fire a shot in anger.

Also off the top of my head, possible reasons to do somthing like this include:

Showing the Big Stick during talks with a pocket empire just outside the boarders (ie "we are taking the civil option by talking to you. please do not make us use our considerable ability to ruin your day and aggree to our demands.")

A simple, honest to god fleet exercise ( maybe some simulated battles, testing of logicistic abilites in the area, etc)

ensuring control of a "chokepoint" system, where deployment of SDBs and monitors has not/ can not be done.

back up for a smaller scale op (for example, a intervention in a war between minor powers. the BatRon is the heavy brigade, not part of the assualt team but thier to pull thier asses out of the fire)

pre-positioning of the squadron in case of a contingency (for example, two client states going to war)

I see border deterence etc. more of a fleet destroyer and light cruiser job with the battleships concentrated in the depots far back to give reaction time. In case of crisis bolster with some heavy cruisers. All three types can handle anything short of the Sollies or Zhos coming over the border and will life long enough to call for the fleet.

OTOH sending out battleships in squadrons call for defeat in detail.

 

[Orr]

Besides: WHY is a major fleet asset currently being wasted on a destroyer job? Some local airwaste<<<Noble pulling strings to impress his mistress?

just becuase they don't expect combat, doesn't mean that their won't see combat.

mbrinkhues' question was rhetorical. Without knowing the reason behind the deployment, no one can begin to guess what assets will be dispatched along with the BATRON.

Is it a show of force? A border patrol? Training? What sort of training? Who's in the immediate neighborhood? Major power? Minor power? Independent world? What are the current tensions in the area?

Even a routine deployment is going to be tailored somewhat by the SITREP.

 

[shadowcat20]

A Batron means capital ships, so Battleships or Dreadnaughts. 6 of these 100 to 500 KT critters mean at least a subsector main fleet. With the amount of force that would project it would have all sorts of escorts. 2 to 4 Crurons of 2 or 4 ships, a half dozen Desrons of 4 or more Destroyers and then escort ships. You do not seperate the main punch of your fleet from it's support (unless they are older and you WANT the enemy to Pearl Harbor you). Assuming that is not the case there will also be support, logistics, and troop ships present. In otherwords a Subsector main fleet on maneuvers.

Of course that would be in My universe. Yours may have a higher tonnage alloted per world.

But keep in mind AHL class cruisers were 60KT and a cruron was two of them. So a Battron may be 4 at most IMO.

Just my 2 credits,

 

[rancke]

A Batron means capital ships, so Battleships or Dreadnaughts. 6 of these 100 to 500 KT critters mean at least a subsector main fleet. With the amount of force that would project it would have all sorts of escorts. 2 to 4 Crurons of 2 or 4 ships, a half dozen Desrons of 4 or more Destroyers and then escort ships. You do not seperate the main punch of your fleet from it's support (unless they are older and you WANT the enemy to Pearl Harbor you). Assuming that is not the case there will also be support, logistics, and troop ships present. In other words a Subsector main fleet on maneuvers.

According to MT:Rebellion Sourcebook a numbered fleet (subsector main fleet) has 8 to 10 squadrons, averaging 62.5 combat vessels (cruisers and up). This is more than Fifth Frontier War indicates, but FFW is based on the flawed assumption that all population multipliers are 1.

The ratio of BatRons to CruRons is not specified anywhere, but the countermix in FFW suggests that it may be 1:3. I usually say 2-3 BatRons and 5-6 CruRons (totalling 8), plus a special squadron of some kind (TankRon, AssRon, ?). This is an average, of course; border fleets might have more and interior fleets less.

But keep in mind AHL class cruisers were 60KT and a cruron was two of them. So a Battron may be 4 at most IMO.

I can't find any reference to how AHLs are deployed in squadrons. There's a reference to 28 of them being formed into 14 two-ship divisions, which is not the same thing as sqaudrons. A division is two main ships plus auxiliaries. A squadron seems to be 2-4 divisions. It's possible that the AHLs weren't organized into squadrons at all. The average number of ships per squadron implied by RbS is 7, so 6 and 8 ship squadrons would be almost equally common. 4 ship squadrons would, I believe, be rare (unless you're been fighting a civil war for some years, of course).

Note that the Tigresses are implied to be deployed in 8-ship squadrons.


Hans

 

[BardicHeart]

completly hypothectical question:

A Imperial navy BatRon (in this case 6 ships strong) is deploying to the Macguffin system on the edge of the imperium (which edge is unimportant) for an extended time. It is not expecting a full combat situation, but at the same time, it is expecting to see some form of action (be it anti-pirate, police actions, etc).

what would be the size and composition of the defensive screen attached to it? would it even have a screen (i assume so, but am not familar enough with traveller large scale space combat to know if thats plausible)

I suppose first you'd have to decide what definition of a BatRon you want to go by. For example MT's Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium defines a Batron as 4 battleships/dreadnaughts, 3 scouts, 2 auxilaries, 2 transports and 1 tanker.

Given that, I'd have the scouts put out a web of sensor sats with the CICs of those capital ships monitoring them. A thick screen of sensor sats is cheap, easily carried by a transport and deployed by the scouts and effective for giving plenty of warning. Additionally, I don't know of any restriction against one or more of those battleships actually being a fleet carrier of a similar size (for example a dreadnaught sized fleet carrier, 3 battleships, with 2 auxillaries (possibly filled by destroyers) would be a pretty formidable carrier group). Lots of fighter patrols would make a good picket screen as well.

But that all assumes you accept the definition from FSSI, some may not. There would also be the question of what, if any, attached assets were included in the task force. For example, some decriptions of SDBs (CTs FightingShips, p25) gives the example of many of these 200 Td boats being loaded into a transport and deployed that way, so maybe one of the transports is loaded with 60 of these SDBs (assuming a 20k Td transport with about 12k Td cargo, if you have bigger transports... well... ). Seems plausible and there's presedence for it. Or you could attach a squadron of destroyer escorts. Even a TankRon is listed as having a cruiser, 2 auxillaries, 4 escorts (destroyers), 4 scouts and 2 transports in addition to 4 tankers... that would beef up their screen quite a bit.

Personally, when I'm doing such things for a campaign I start by working out an overall table of organization and equipment for whatever area or force I'm dealing with (not just talking Traveller here, I do the same if I'm dealing with say a Baron or Earl for Harn), then I dispatch forces based on what they have available, their mission, and what other missions that same main force is having to cope with.

So if we were talking the Spinward Marches just as an example, I'd rough out the sector / domain fleet, then rough out what squadrons are where doing what, including not just that force but what forces might be nearby in other systems or subsectors. I do the same for the attacking force. That way I'm fairly well prepared no matter what the PCs do or what unexpected strategy they cook up (cause you know how players have a knack for wanting to try that one strategy you didn't think of ). Sometimes what ships get sent aren't the ideal mix, task forces are based as much on what was available as they are ideal military doctrine and organization. Having an idea what is going on in the theatre area and what the main force has to manage helps me sort out what is reasonably available which I think adds a touch of realism whether its Traveller, Steel Panthers or Harn.

The above might work well for you particularly if you want to run a campaign with smaller ship tonnages for the fleets or using reserve fleets, etc.

 

[shadowcat20]

Ok LBB sup 9 Fighting ships says on page 9. Crurons are grouped 4 to 8 ships each. Batrons are also 6 to 8 ships here, but that was for Battle Riders. The Midu Agashaam class DD was in Desrons of 10 to 20 but may have been a special case (Page 16 sup 9). the Tigress 500KT Batron is 8 ships but there is only one in Spinward Marches. It also state 1 Tigress Batron per SECTOR. ( Sup 9 page 38). Spinward also has 4 8 ship Batrons of Kokirrak 200KT Dreadnaughts. With 8 ships per unit (Sup 9 Page 42).

Ok, all I could find for now,

 

[BardicHeart]

Good to know Shadowcat, thanks for including the page refs.

 

[mbrinkhues]

MGTs "Sector Fleet" has quite a bit on fleet organisations, deployment etc in the OTU.

 

[Selandia]

If the batron is just standing by against contingencies, the "screen" is the system defense force that secure the systems against surprise attacks and raids, chase pirate, unidentified intruders and odd "contacts" ftom listening stations.

The Batron is just another valuable assets (supply train, starbase, planetary assault force, Cruron, Desron...) awaiting a mission.

If the Batron is standing by to fill a specific mission, that is all in the mission.

Selandia

 

[Dragoner]

Good to know Shadowcat, thanks for including the page refs.

JTAS #9 has The Battle Fleets of the Marches pg 38-43 by Marc Miller; it outlines fleet organization and other issues fairly well.

 

[BardicHeart]

JTAS #9 has The Battle Fleets of the Marches pg 38-43 by Marc Miller; it outlines fleet organization and other issues fairly well.

:: scribbles another sticky note of more stuff to buy ::

 

[aramis]

:: scribbles another sticky note of more stuff to buy ::

Just buy the CT, MT, JTAS, Apochrypha 1 &2 CDs and get it over with :devil:. should run about $160 total, with US shipping.

 

[BardicHeart]

Actually the only CDs left are the T5, JTAS, Challenger and Appocrypha CDs... I have the rest (most of it thru DriveThru rather than FFE, I don't use PayPal so to buy from Marc I have to mail him a check, DriveThru is just easier). Unless I go for all the MGT stuff (I'll be getting the intro PDF for MGT today probably)... and the GURPS stuff (I have one print book for that, unfortunately it is Far Trader which is currnetly out of print)...

Traveller is gonna bankrupt me! :rofl:

Actually, I think what I will do is draw up a bunch of deckplans compatible with Traveller and Fading Suns and put them up on DriveThru... see if I can make enough to pay for all this stuff. Soon as I have enough I'll be mailing Marc an check.

 

[robject]

Think, very generally, about economics as well. If you're deploying dreadnoughts, it doesn't really add much to the cost to throw in fighter screens as well...