Well, I suppose it is up for debate, but it does seem a bit coincidental.
New thought about the course of Traveller
- Thread starter Garyius2003
- Start date
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
That would be the early Fourth Imperium of 1248. Aside from isolated seeds that haven't been able to evolve, "Virus" is a secondary or tertiary issue. The more evolved Cyms occupy most computers used by the 4I in the wilds and can readily handle older strains in most cases. Most robots are also Cyms and, as a result, true AI. Virus encounters in the wilds are either lessons in avoidance or boil down to mental combat between a sentient Cym and a psychopathic ancestor. The Cyms are actively working to remove Lucan's weaponization from their "genome".
T5 has also established a few mysterious hints going forward from that, but no real details yet.
selunatic2397
SOC-12
What are these Mysterious Hints in T5?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
The Important Eras table on page 17 lists the periods we are already familiar with, but ends with "The Far, Far Future", which is identified as year 1902 and has a footnote that says, simply "The Galaxiad".
Then there is the drives list on page 368 that gives us the steps beyond Jump. Repeated on 510. The discussion on 368 certainly suggests that the paradigm of Jump drive will eventually be left behind by Humaniti, and the nature of Hop and Skip drives (farther, faster) gives some bare clues about how.
Then there is the drives list on page 368 that gives us the steps beyond Jump. Repeated on 510. The discussion on 368 certainly suggests that the paradigm of Jump drive will eventually be left behind by Humaniti, and the nature of Hop and Skip drives (farther, faster) gives some bare clues about how.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I miss how Traveller seemed a living universe back in the days when the JTAS would report news from the Spinward Marches and around the Imperium. The Fifth Frontier War played out. Back then, looking at things like the static Greyhawk map and the only hint of a living universe you got was from your GM (if he was good), I thought that little bit in JTAS so novel and unique.
Maybe this T5 drive thing can bring that back to traveller--a technology improvement.
It'd be neat to see it rolled out slowly. Who's got the new drives? They're bound to be expensive.
Maybe this T5 drive thing can bring that back to traveller--a technology improvement.
It'd be neat to see it rolled out slowly. Who's got the new drives? They're bound to be expensive.
Chuck Anumia
SOC-14 1K
I would be Content
If T5 stared putting out support material for how the 4I evolved from the 3I (From the MT Rebellion through the TNE Virus destruction) I would enjoy reading it.
I would enjoy seeing how the Star Vikings (Or Spinward Marches or whoever else had the technology to do so) pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and got the Imperium rolling along again.
I would like to read the stories about how a crew on an Imperial Navy Battle Tender bested a virus infested armada, freed a hostage world or entire system.
I would enjoy reading the stories of the new Hiver academy graduates who developed the Cym AI's personalities (defenses and offenses) to take on Virus strains wherever they found them.
I would like to hear of the political maneuvering worlds and systems with power performed in pulling together towards a common goal.
These stories could be told in news reports, publications, adventure modules, or even simply as marks on a timeline from 1116 to 1902.
*Personally*
I have been working for YEARS on a list of adventures in TNE for the players to go out and gather bigger and better ships to accumulate into the core of the fleet which will be used to accomplish the reformation of the 4th Imperium.
Rather than non integrated and compartmentalized computers to defeat virus, I chose to introduce P.A.C.I.F.I.C. (Processing Accelerated Cyber Interactive Floating Interface Character) which my group named "Patsy" as I gave her a feminine voice whenever she spoke to them.
Much the same thing can be done officially but then; where is the fun in that?
If T5 stared putting out support material for how the 4I evolved from the 3I (From the MT Rebellion through the TNE Virus destruction) I would enjoy reading it.
I would enjoy seeing how the Star Vikings (Or Spinward Marches or whoever else had the technology to do so) pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and got the Imperium rolling along again.
I would like to read the stories about how a crew on an Imperial Navy Battle Tender bested a virus infested armada, freed a hostage world or entire system.
I would enjoy reading the stories of the new Hiver academy graduates who developed the Cym AI's personalities (defenses and offenses) to take on Virus strains wherever they found them.
I would like to hear of the political maneuvering worlds and systems with power performed in pulling together towards a common goal.
These stories could be told in news reports, publications, adventure modules, or even simply as marks on a timeline from 1116 to 1902.
*Personally*
I have been working for YEARS on a list of adventures in TNE for the players to go out and gather bigger and better ships to accumulate into the core of the fleet which will be used to accomplish the reformation of the 4th Imperium.
Rather than non integrated and compartmentalized computers to defeat virus, I chose to introduce P.A.C.I.F.I.C. (Processing Accelerated Cyber Interactive Floating Interface Character) which my group named "Patsy" as I gave her a feminine voice whenever she spoke to them.
Much the same thing can be done officially but then; where is the fun in that?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
"Developed"? The Cyms already existed before they were discovered and weaponized by Lucan. The Virus Night and First and Second Dawns (1129 through 1248) is the period, with rather extreme side effects, in which the Cyms grow through and evolve past the Human attempts to treat them like tools and weapons. They are people.
Great minds think alike. I did something similar 10 years ago when i started refing the TNE universe.
I think you are very fortunate to have experienced that, and I'm unhappy that I wasn't into Traveller until 1995. I, too, would like to see a living timeline in a JTAS-like thing (but what's the modern version of those?).
Does GURPS:Traveller still have its living timeline?
Regardless of where Traveller goes in terms of its setting (skip drive, leap drive, pole vault drive....mega-virus, invasion from beyond or something), if I ever find another gaming group after my life settles down, I think I'll be sticking with the 3I. It's what I know, and I think it was a treasure trove that was never greatly explored to any degree.
In spite of the original rules establishing that it is a generic rule set for any sci-fi (or even non sci-fi) background and gaming session, after thinking about the game and peeling away the layers, the game strikes me as a law enforcement and geo-political scenario game set "in space", so to speak, and in that regard shies away from true sci-fi, where the fantastic happens to people.
I don't want to get too overboard and post another long diatribe, but the things I'm working on are leaning more towards cool traditional sci-fi as opposed to cops-and-robbers in space, or "military interdiction scenarios" in space, cobbled with social psychology. In short, I think there's enough high-minded thematic "Trek" stuff in Traveller, and not enough Buck Rogers or stuff that's really cool and somewhat out there.
Just me.
In spite of the original rules establishing that it is a generic rule set for any sci-fi (or even non sci-fi) background and gaming session, after thinking about the game and peeling away the layers, the game strikes me as a law enforcement and geo-political scenario game set "in space", so to speak, and in that regard shies away from true sci-fi, where the fantastic happens to people.
I don't want to get too overboard and post another long diatribe, but the things I'm working on are leaning more towards cool traditional sci-fi as opposed to cops-and-robbers in space, or "military interdiction scenarios" in space, cobbled with social psychology. In short, I think there's enough high-minded thematic "Trek" stuff in Traveller, and not enough Buck Rogers or stuff that's really cool and somewhat out there.
Just me.
Chuck Anumia
SOC-14 1K
Diversity
I am so very happy to see so much diversity in the approaches people here take to the game.
Some see a lot of un-mined treasures in the classic traveler game version and unexplored spaces and scenarios.
Others see possibilities for character advancement and development in the MT rebellion.
Still others seem to feel the collapse of the 3I, introduction of virus and reintroduction of technology of the TNE has a vast amount of playable ideas and the potential for individual characters to advanced to the very heights of society and affect the direction humanity will take for the next 1,000 years!
(And yes, I know that what I said in each version can be worked into scenarios for all other versions of the game with enough planning, initiative and GM effort and a will to make it so!)
I am so very happy to see so much diversity in the approaches people here take to the game.
Some see a lot of un-mined treasures in the classic traveler game version and unexplored spaces and scenarios.
Others see possibilities for character advancement and development in the MT rebellion.
Still others seem to feel the collapse of the 3I, introduction of virus and reintroduction of technology of the TNE has a vast amount of playable ideas and the potential for individual characters to advanced to the very heights of society and affect the direction humanity will take for the next 1,000 years!
(And yes, I know that what I said in each version can be worked into scenarios for all other versions of the game with enough planning, initiative and GM effort and a will to make it so!)
Yeah, you never saw a lot of stuff that was in movies, comic books and novels get translated to Traveller. Traveller, by design, was written to be hard science with an element of fiction, and it really seemed to dwarf other sci-fi RPGs in terms of material offered, but the adventures seemed pretty dry.
I'm hoping I can change that some. We'll see.
Garyius2003
SOC-13
Traveller was written as "shotguns in space", in other words the 1970s view of 2000s real life tech in space with the addition of grav plates and MD, a fusion plant that works, lasers that burn armor at thousands of miles in vacuum, and a jump drive.
As it turns out, they missed the actual real life advances in computers, and we are not even close in grav drives and plates, and fusion plants still look like a dream. Therefore I suspect jump drives are not coming.
I have my fingers crossed for killer lasers. Even so, playing a PC in a vacc suit with an assault rifle gently pushing off from one ship to another nearby seems pretty cool and mostly realistic.
As it turns out, they missed the actual real life advances in computers, and we are not even close in grav drives and plates, and fusion plants still look like a dream. Therefore I suspect jump drives are not coming.
I have my fingers crossed for killer lasers. Even so, playing a PC in a vacc suit with an assault rifle gently pushing off from one ship to another nearby seems pretty cool and mostly realistic.
That's cool. All those years ago I was hoping Traveller would grow and become a good steady hobby with better art and more stories. Maybe that can finally happen now.
David Johansen
SOC-12
For that to happen people would need to get behind Traveller instead of crapping all over it.
And I'll agree a lot of bad decisions and past follies lie behind that.
When I see where Warhammer has gotten to it makes me sad. I think Traveller could have been that big. Or at least as big as Palladium.
I'd point my main accusing finger at GDW for MegaTraveller. Which was the right idea with poor execution. Put DGP in charge of the setting? Cool, people who can actually write. Put them in charge of the rules? Not such a good plan. Also, horrible covers, really, really horrible covers. Covers sell books and the Player's book cover was awful.
TNE is more of GDW, just plain missing the boat. They should have just done a new exploration and vampire ship setting and left the shattered imperium for a later supplement. It's essentially the same error as WotC made with D&D 4e, the game in the box simply wasn't the game in the title. I liked the house system but I think it would have been better accepted with a different name and setting. Also, ARMOR 21 where are you darnit?
T4 was fatally flawed but in many ways it's still my favorite edition. It was an attempt to be more accessible and functional, without getting bogged down in microscopic detail. I'm still sad that it didn't get the chance to make good on its promise. Pocket Empires and Emperor's Star Fleets were the promise of good things to come FF&S2 and Emperor's Vehicles, not so much.
T5's grand scope inspires me but I think it overextends itself too often. Too much is core. I like that they laid all that stuff down in the core. It allows for future consistency which is often lacking in sfrpgs. But a more accessible point of entry book is sorely needed.
And I'll agree a lot of bad decisions and past follies lie behind that.
When I see where Warhammer has gotten to it makes me sad. I think Traveller could have been that big. Or at least as big as Palladium.
I'd point my main accusing finger at GDW for MegaTraveller. Which was the right idea with poor execution. Put DGP in charge of the setting? Cool, people who can actually write. Put them in charge of the rules? Not such a good plan. Also, horrible covers, really, really horrible covers. Covers sell books and the Player's book cover was awful.
TNE is more of GDW, just plain missing the boat. They should have just done a new exploration and vampire ship setting and left the shattered imperium for a later supplement. It's essentially the same error as WotC made with D&D 4e, the game in the box simply wasn't the game in the title. I liked the house system but I think it would have been better accepted with a different name and setting. Also, ARMOR 21 where are you darnit?
T4 was fatally flawed but in many ways it's still my favorite edition. It was an attempt to be more accessible and functional, without getting bogged down in microscopic detail. I'm still sad that it didn't get the chance to make good on its promise. Pocket Empires and Emperor's Star Fleets were the promise of good things to come FF&S2 and Emperor's Vehicles, not so much.
T5's grand scope inspires me but I think it overextends itself too often. Too much is core. I like that they laid all that stuff down in the core. It allows for future consistency which is often lacking in sfrpgs. But a more accessible point of entry book is sorely needed.
That was apparently a problem that was common beyond Traveller/GDW in those days. The mid-to-late 80's had several RPGs (e.g. D&D, Dragon Magazine, et al) that had an art style in which artists got the idea into their heads that the more "splash" of vibrant colors that they could pack into a picture, the better. Consequently, not only did you have garish color combinations, but in some cases, objects were inserted into the artwork for really no other reason than an excuse to paint something yet another different shade of eye-sore.
MegaTraveller was a great consolidation of Traveller up until that point. What MegaTraveller should have done, however, is keep the ruleset independent of setting (or at least, use the "general OTU" as a backdrop), but leave the Rebellion scenario as something to be explored in Challenge the same way the 5th Frontier War was detailed in JTAS. IMHO, part of the problem was that by identifying the ruleset with the Rebellion, you locked the ruleset and setting together as a unit, and forced it into a particular trajectory without an ultimate resolution (since a war/rebellion cannot last forever). And that is exactly what happened. The Rebellion just kept evolving and evolving until nothing was left of the setting, and there was no way out. If they had been kept independent and the Rebellion had simply been explored thru TNS releases (and some campaign supplements) like in the old days of CT/JTAS, the Rebellion could have been steered in any direction, and resolved a number of different ways, and MegaTraveller could have moved on.
By comparison, Classic Traveller was never called "Traveller: The Fifth Frontier War". If it had been, I think it would have had the same problem as MT. Instead, the FFW (detailed in TNS/JTAS) concluded, and events (and CT) moved on.
Agreed. I think the natural setting-choice for TNE would have been the 2300AD universe, as the House Rules system was developed for the Twilight 2000 game (IIRC), which is the 2300AD historical background. The Traveller OTU could have been detailed for the ruleset in a later sourcebook.
Aside from the stat-dominated Task Mechanic that made tasks too easy *, I think T4 had a lot of potential. I especially liked the way armor in combat subtracted dice of damage, which simulated both penetration as well as damage reduction effects (and made the damage absorbed effectively "variable", simulating areas of less protection, as well as soft vs. rigid armor effects).
* Mind you, I have no problem with the dice-for-difficulty roll-low mechanic conceptually, just that the actual implementation did not work well.
T4 generally had the feel of the older rulesets as compared to TNE.
That is why I believe much depends upon the design and layout of the upcoming Player's Manual - I honestly think it has the potential to either make or break T5, depending upon how it is put together.
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"Incremental" -- i.e. the LBB Way -- appears to be better for publishing. Leaving aside business considerations, it lowers the barriers of learning the game, and covers the essentials in as little space as possible, so a game can be run with a partial-but-essential rule set.
T5 was published as a monolithic core for Kickstarter value, I think. Even so, it looks like each chapter, and even individual pages, were produced as separate documents in InDesign and then merged into the core. I therefore suspect that smaller, more accessible books and documents can be split out from that core.
Hence, the focus on errata, big and small.
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