CT Only: PCs and TL

[Supplement Four]

I think there is enough tech/culture bleed for a TL 4 PC to do well serving the Imperium.

Wow. I'm not sure I agree. (Not sure I disagree, either. )

TL 4 is pretty low. We're talking vacuum tubes are high tech. Dirigibles. Steamships. Coal powered trains. Pre-microchip. Pre-computer. Pre-television.

Tech at the 1860-1900 level. Mostly agrarian societies. Animals used as primary mode of transpiration. Though, the first combustion engine cars may be making it on scene (or waiting for TL 5).

This is US Civil War era technology. This is Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders, riding up San Juan Hill.

Sure, there's some tech bleed with the TL 12 starships landing, and trading, on the world--but, really, how much of that tech seeps through?

Electricity is not even standard. People are doing their business in out houses. If they're lucky, they've got insulated boxes that hold ice to keep things cold. No air conditioning. Think cane fans. Human powered.





A place like Pysadi intrigues me, 'cause I like to figure how they overcome local problems on a low TL 4. The tainted atmosphere is definitely a problem. Sure, outside, the locals where gas-masks--probably a WWI era style mask with filters that screw or snap into place.

But, how do they keep the taint out from indoors at TL 4.

Like MWM, I love thinking of solutions to these challenges within the parameters given.

Here, on Pysadi, I would guess sealed environments with low-tech means: Maybe they use pitch or some petroleum based substance to seal their homes and businesses. Or, a different idea would be to make the walls of their structures giant sized filters. Walls could be made thick--a charcoal based filter sandwiched between three thick wool sheets, with all that serving as a core to a brick or wood or log wall--on each side of the filter, sealed with a petroleum based sealant.

There would be crude airlocks at the entryways--an outer door, leading to a middle door, leading to the inner door. You never leave two doors open at once.

Maybe the filters are an expense on the house--or something that has to be made by the homeowner every so often--that has to be changed, say, once a month. Or every six months. Whatever. The inner doors on the walls, so cleverly hidden by the wood grain, opens, and these big, 3'x5' filters are pulled from their slots for replacement, made of linen and wool and other filter-ish materials.

it is something that the residents of Pysadi would take seriously.

 

[Axe]

More of a tech bleed in the terms of future tech possibilities. Think HG Wells. He did possibly write about an atomic bomb pre 1915.

Ancient drawings and carvings depicting men in space suits?

DaVinci's drawings/schematics of parachutes (recently proven to work), helicopters/gyrocopters, submarines, ....

If a theoretical idea exists, maybe the tech's actual manifestation can be dealt with and the learning curve overcome.

Anyway, i don't know of the ancient mesoamerican artwork depicts spacemen or aliens, but those "documentaries" are still a hoot to watch.




By the way, anytime i mention The Imperium, I simply intend it to represent whatever major governmental power is in someone's own Traveller universe.

 

[aramis]

I've always treated it as a baseline, but noted that IN and IM characters are always capable of using TL14 gear in field... as that's what they were trained upon in service.

 

[mike wightman]

UPP in a 3I OTU game is measuring against Imperial standards.

TL15 is everywhere in the 3I, it just may not be the local world TL

I've always assumed high TL stuff is pretty easy to use since the smart machinery does all the actual work.

 

[Whipsnade]

UPP in a 3I OTU game is measuring against Imperial standards.

Bingo! I'd give you a cigar, but I'm out of them!

Once again, our failure to remember that the OTU setting does not exactly equate the Traveller rules as written has caused problems.

Tech levels in the rules does not imply same things as tech levels in the setting. Chargen in the rules does imply the same thing as chargen in the setting. UPP numbers in the rules does not imply the same thing as UPP numbers in the setting.

TL15 is everywhere in the 3I, it just may not be the local world TL.

Exactly. The knowledge, and not the experience, of TL 15 is nearly everywhere in the OTU setting. The locals on TL2 New Dog Patch can't build FGMPs and battledress, nor would they be able to understand the schematics, but they're not worshiping carved stone idols of Imperial Marines either.

 

[Carlobrand]

One thought is that the folk most likely to end up being PCs are also the folk most likely to be exposed to off-world tech: sons of influential folk, sons of starport workers, that sort. Farmer Bob's sons, out in the hinterlands, have a rather poor chance of achieving their off-world ambitions, even were they inclined to have such ambitions.

Unless of course their world attracts the interest of some Imperial lord and their uncle and aunt get killed by stormtroopers.

 

[kilemall]

One thought is that the folk most likely to end up being PCs are also the folk most likely to be exposed to off-world tech: sons of influential folk, sons of starport workers, that sort. Farmer Bob's sons, out in the hinterlands, have a rather poor chance of achieving their off-world ambitions, even were they inclined to have such ambitions.

Unless of course their world attracts the interest of some Imperial lord and their uncle and aunt get killed by stormtroopers.

Zactly.

Simple rule. Travellers have been there done that, seen the bright lights of the big city planet, not going to go back to the farm.

More to the point, they are used to dealing in drastically different tech UI and use, likely to ask a few pertinent questions and then get to it.

This counts for Barbarians too, they have been off-planet now.

For NPC people who have not left the planet, TL wrangling issues should probably kick in. Key stat there should probably be EDU checks with appropriate skill mods for those situations.

Don't forget to hit the high tech people with equal issues dealing with low tech as vice versa.

Another approach I threw out there in another thread was limiting initial character EDU to home planet TL. This would model both more information that is known with the higher tech, and better educational technology to store, present and cram more information into people's brains.

I would only use such a rule for a 'new frontier' sort of ATU where the planets have largely developed without a lot of space trade.

Something like the OTU or other 'been doing space civilization for 1000s of years' environments have had the aforementioned contamination and even TL3 yokels know there is such a thing as anti-gravity.

 

[Supplement Four]

I've always treated it as a baseline, but noted that IN and IM characters are always capable of using TL14 gear in field... as that's what they were trained upon in service.

I'm not sure that I agree with that. Again, I'm not sure I disagree, either. Jury is out.

I agree at least TL 10+. I'd think that TL 12 is not uncommon. But always TL 15? I'm not sure...

 

[mike wightman]

Every 3I navy base is TL15.

Every IM unit in FFW is TL15.

Every FFW regular IA unit is TL 14 or 15.

The Imperium has been TL 15 for over one hundred years by 1105 and probably had prototype and hybrid stuff for a few decades before that.

The SM has been settled, explored, colonised, 'developed' for over nine hundred years.

 

[Supplement Four]

Every 3I navy base is TL15.

Source for this? Not that I doubt you--just want to educate myself on it.

The Imperium has been TL 15 for over one hundred years by 1105 and probably had prototype and hybrid stuff for a few decades before that.

Good point.

 

[Supplement Four]

This is interesting, from Supp 11:

The naval base is not a tactical unit. It has no battle forces of its own and does not exert even over local system defense boats (which are under a separate command). The naval base is responsible for supporting the fleet and keeping it in optimum condition for its combat missions.

Wow, that change the perception of naval bases. They seem to be strictly support/repair facilities. Maybe that's part of the agreement with member worlds--worlds that may balk at Imperial Naval bases on their homeworlds for fear that the Imperium will have too much influence/control on local politics.

What's not said here but indicated? Marines. The base does not have any battle forces of its own.

So...Marines are not stationed at Imperial Naval bases.

 

[aramis]

I'm not sure that I agree with that. Again, I'm not sure I disagree, either. Jury is out.

I agree at least TL 10+. I'd think that TL 12 is not uncommon. But always TL 15? I'm not sure...

I said 14 not 15 Standard TL for imperial forces is 14. Given that I allow ±3 without penalty, it means the IN Guys aren't going to operate TL 9-10 stuff.

You really need to read what people WRITE, not what you expect them to write.

 

[Supplement Four]

I said 14 not 15 Standard TL for imperial forces is 14. Given that I allow ±3 without penalty, it means the IN Guys aren't going to operate TL 9-10 stuff.

You really need to read what people WRITE, not what you expect them to write.

I DID read what you wrote. You're original quote...

I've always treated it as a baseline, but noted that IN and IM characters are always capable of using TL14 gear in field... as that's what they were trained upon in service.

Which says that you've always treated IN as TL 15 base but have TL 14 gear in the field, too.

And, I replied...why the TL 15 base?

Looks like YOU need to read the posts, too.

 

[aramis]

I DID read what you wrote. You're original quote...



Which says that you've always treated IN as TL 15 base but have TL 14 gear in the field, too.

And, I replied...why the TL 15 base?

Looks like YOU need to read the posts, too.

You failed your read roll again I NEVER SAID TL 15.

Put your glasses on.

 

[mike wightman]

Source for this? Not that I doubt you--just want to educate myself on it.

HG2, TCS, FFW - any IN base can repair TL15 IN squadrons, therefore they have to be TL 15 according to the rules in HG2 and TCS

 

[Supplement Four]

You failed your read roll again I NEVER SAID TL 15.

Put your glasses on.

Then...what does, "I've always treated it as a baseline..." refer to?

 

[aramis]

Then...what does, "I've always treated it as a baseline..." refer to?

Homeworld tech level.

 

[infojunky]

This looks like another case of giving Tech Level too much power. Meaning Tech Level is the technical infrastructure of a planet and by result a way describing what equipment can be manufactured there.

Now if you want to pull in personal development into it you need to come up with a new metric. In that after a certain point the changes between Tech Levels are meaningless, especially in terms of available education.

Consider this the Information age starts at TL5 in Traveller. Furthermore I know several people whose base education happen in effectively TL 3/4 societies who are happily working on cutting edge technology here in Silicon Valley.

With all this I have visions of the Imperial Ministry of Education, which mostly sponsors cash grants to establish Local Schools and Staff them with graduates of the Imperial Teachers College (which frequently established on the Subsector Capital). Think of it a quiet way of spreading Imperial Ideals at a lower cost than a fleet and Troop Garrison....

 

[Whipsnade]

This looks like another case of giving Tech Level too much power.

The same thing has been done to Law Level, EDU, SOC, and many other things. The more Traveller's "dial" points toward "model" and away from "game", the more that happens.

In the end, it's up to the referee to say "Stop", apply whatever works for him and his group, and continue play.

With all this I have visions of the Imperial Ministry of Education...

In AotI a POV character freely admits the Anglic literature courses she taught are actually methods of indoctrination and social control.

 

[Condottiere]

It's tricky.

It's about the same as linking the characters' physical attributes to the gravity of their home worlds.

They could have gotten an scholarship, or stowed away on a free trader or smuggler.