CT Only: PCs and TL

[mike wightman]

Or just read a few books, or studied a few interactive tutorials on their smart-tablets. There are an awful lot of countries in the real world that can not manufacture smart phones or mobile phone/interweb infrastructure, and yet those TL4/5 countries appear to be awash with the stuff.

You could even use the characteristics to describe world of origin; rather than describing your character as an invalid because you rolled a low Str.

Consider:
Str 2 Dex 7 End 7 - character is from a low g world and it tall and willowy as a result. Thanks to TL15 magimeditech you don't need to worry about calcium deficiency in bones etc, all of that was genetically fixed hundreds of years ago when your ancestors were bioengineered to be adapted to the low gravity of Garglle.

Fluff over with now play the game.

 

[kilemall]

It's tricky.

It's about the same as linking the characters' physical attributes to the gravity of their home worlds.

They could have gotten an scholarship, or stowed away on a free trader or smuggler.

What counts is their environment while developing in childhood.

If they were sent away to school or grew up a spacer with artificial G, well THAT is their homeworld.

IMTU most children are sent away to Earth or live on the highly desirable world Pronoia, as spin gravity environments like most stations and Cities aren't consistent enough. Hardscrabble spacers like Belters don't have that luxury for the most part, so I would tend to apply G-related mods to them.

 

[kilemall]

This looks like another case of giving Tech Level too much power. Meaning Tech Level is the technical infrastructure of a planet and by result a way describing what equipment can be manufactured there.

And this is the part where I say people conflate TL with manufacturing. The actual phrasing of TL is it measures what level of equipment is prevalent on the planet, not industrial facilities.

As Mike pointed out above, most nations on Earth don't make cars, trucks, cellphones or tablets, but they are prevalent.

If nothing else the speculation tables tell us there are surpluses of equipment on IND worlds to be shipped to NON-IND worlds that will pay up, highly suggesting that there is at least a layer of equipment manufacture that is imported/exported.

What I would say is that there is an infrastructure of support and repair for the prevalent TL. Kind of the equivalent of C and B starports, can't make the big ticket items but can repair them.

 

[Supplement Four]

Character Tech Level

I'm intrigued by using a character's stats to describe the level of technology the character is capable of using.

Here's what I'm thinking...





HOMEWORLD TL

For most characters, the TL of the character's homeworld is also the TL of the character.



EDUCATED TRAVELLERS

Travellers are a special breed of people. Because they spend a lot of time in space, they can be more highly educated than the normal Joe NPC.

For a Traveller, his personal TL is raised to his EDU level, when EDU is higher than homeworld TL.



EXPERTISE

Travellers can have higher technical knowledge in some areas over other areas. A Traveller's personal TL with any skill is the character's EDU level + Skill level (or his homeworld TL, if higher).



LEAP OF LOGIC

In any situation where TL is important, general tech bleed and a Traveller's exposure to higher technology can improve a Traveller's technical knowledge in a specific area.

To make a Leap of Logic, the Traveller rolls 2D, looking for INT or less. If the throw is successful, the character has the appropriate technical knowledge to attempt the high TL task.

Alternatively, take the difference of the character's INT score and his 2D roll, and use this as a one-time modifier that increases the character's TL for the task at hand.



MODIFIERS

The Ref should, of course, apply modifiers when appropriate. For example, a character from a desert world would probably suffer a TL penalty when dealing with watercraft.

The difference in TL needed and the character's TL can be used as a modifier.

Or, the Ref can just apply a TL modifier based on the character's background, homeworld characteristics, and the task at hand.







EXAMPLE

Nama Dern 7689A6 AutoRifle-2, Navigation-1, Computer-1, Vacc Suit-0 Homeworld: Pysadi TL 4.

Nama's minimum TL is TL 4, but because this is a Traveller character, the character has greatly benefited from higher education and tech bleed from the Class C starport. Nama's EDU serves as her base TL, at TL A.

With weapons, Nama is familiar with autorifles up to TL C.

And, Nama is proficient with starship Navigation equipment and Computers up to TL B.

Nama is trained in Vacc Suits up to TL A.



Let's say that Nama wants to operate TL C Battledress. She can attempt to make a leap of logic. Roll 2D looking for INT or less. That's 2D for 9-. If successful, Nama can operate the Battledress without TL restriction.

But, let's say that Nama fails that roll. Still allow Nama to use the Battledress, but imply a TL penalty modifier. In this case, TL C Battledress minus TL A Vacc Suit equals a -2 TL modifiers to all throws associated with the Battledress.

 

[infojunky]

And this is the part where I say people conflate TL with manufacturing.

Hum... I quote the 1st line of the section in Book3.

The degree of technological expertise, and thus the capabilities of local industry, depends greatly on the basic characteristics of a world.

The actual phrasing of TL is it measures what level of equipment is prevalent on the planet, not industrial facilities.

And yes it also says this.

But, my point is that some very technical people started with educations in very low tech environments. My summation is Education is Education, and even if the local infrastructure might not support a thing the idea of the thing can still be taught. Thus my demarcation of where there should a limit in education would be at that point where a society switches from a Preliterate to Literate one.

 

[mike wightman]

How about taking the whole quote:

The technological level is used in conjunction with the technological level table
to determine the general quality and capability of local industry. The tables indicate
the general types or categories of goods in general use on the world. In most
cases, such goods are the best which may be produced locally, although better
goods may be imported by local organizations or businesses when a specific need is
felt. In most cases, local citizenry will not be armed with weapons of a type which
cannot be produced locally, although police or military may be. Technological level
also indicates the general ability of local technology to repair or maintain items
which have failed or malfunctioned.

 

[Condottiere]

Most electronic and kitchen appliances are idiot proofed, and don't require a college degree to operate.

 

[aramis]

Most electronic and kitchen appliances are idiot proofed, and don't require a college degree to operate.

Most kitchen devices are TL6... Some are TL3...

Using TL as a limiter on use really only applies to complex machinery... vehicular controls, industrial machinery, major weaponry...

A TL4 crossbowman would have no issue operating an M-16 after a 5 minute orientation. Maintaining it, however... that would require a couple hours of instruction.

A TL1 bowman would be a different matter.

Then again, learning to shoot and maintain a hunting bow isn't an "environmental pickup," either... but that TL1 farmer probably could pick up a modern compound carbon-fiber bow and use it as easily as the average urban teen can pick up an M-1911...

 

[flykiller]

And this is the part where I say people conflate TL with manufacturing ...

... because that's the only coherent approach. would you describe zimbabwe as tech level 8?

 

[mike wightman]

Is the microchip TL6 or TL7?

 

[mike wightman]

... because that's the only coherent approach. would you describe zimbabwe as tech level 8?

Not until they invent the air/raft, fusion power plants and laser carbines

I kid because I know exactly what you mean. Many 'third world' countries as they were previously called have extensive communication and internet infrastructure, state of the art weapon systems, but no local manufacturing capability.
You could actually say the same about many European countries these days since quite a few are incapable of locally manufacturing any of their high tech.
Their universities and research establishments are filled with people who understand the principles, physics and engineering behind their bought in devices though.

 

[flykiller]

Many 'third world' countries as they were previously called have extensive communication and internet infrastructure, state of the art weapon systems, but no local manufacturing capability.

or comprehension. air force instructors tell stories of going to go saudi arabia to train saudi pilots. the instructor takes the trainee up, puts the aircraft in a flat spin, and tells the trainee, "ok, get us out of this", and the trainee will throw up his hands and say "insh'allah!"

 

[flykiller]

You could actually say the same about ...

... pretty much most places. for example on might readily say that the united states is "tech level 8", but if you look closely its manufacturing capability has declined dramatically. virtually all electronics are manufactured elsewhere, and over half of automobiles are manufactured elsewhere. there is only one shipyard capable of building carriers, and the company that manufactures the m1 tank makes one a week. etc. in terms of actual independent capability the united states is not much better than zimbabwe.

 

[Condottiere]

First world countries have extensive infrastructures, whether transport, energy, or telecommunications.

Third world countries can skip this step, if a cheap, easily implemented technology can be imported and sustained, like wireless communications and solar panelling.

 

[Whipsnade]

Third world countries can skip this step, if a cheap, easily implemented technology can be imported and sustained, like wireless communications and solar panelling.

Mexico was a good example of this. For a period during the 90s, Mexico actually had higher cell phone usage/ownership per capita than the US.

Mexico's landline infrastructure was lacking to put it kindly; at one time the waiting period for residential phone installation in Mexico City was close to three years. Putting up cell towers and selling cell phones was far more cheaper, far more quicker, and far more easier than trying to wire the country to a First World standard.

That pent up demand for phone service coupled with the lower infrastructure hurdle for cell technology meant Mexicans adopted cell phones more quickly than Americans.

In the OTU we see similar examples. Tarsus, for example, "affords" and "maintains" a satellite phone network despite having a population of only 2 million. Very few worlds in the OTU fit the autarky model.

 

[flykiller]

First world countries have extensive infrastructures, whether transport, energy, or telecommunications.

eh, dunno. nigeria has a telecommunications network so extensive that (so I read) the entire country is cashless, their entire monetary system is conducted by cellphone. some barefoot woman squatting by the family cooking fire will do her banking on her cellphone while boiling bushrat. I don't think that's first-world ....

looking at this from a traveller perspective, cold fusion power starting at 1dton of plant infrastructure and roadless gravitic transportation and satellite-wifi seems very low-volume infrastructure, yet it would be (or could be) quite high tech. however, you could plug all that into mediaeval mongol society and they'd take right to it - the khan certainly could even afford it - but I don't think the hordes could then be called "high tech".

 

[flykiller]

Tarsus, for example, "affords" and "maintains" a satellite phone network despite having a population of only 2 million.

cold fusion and gravitics makes satellites cheap and easy.

 

[Whipsnade]

cold fusion and gravitics makes satellites cheap and easy.

True, but you're missing the larger point.

Tarsus has a regional sat-phone system in part because F+ and gravitics make placing the orbital infrastructure easy. (In Tarsus' case, not orbital-based as much as moon-based.)

While Tarsus can use the necessary tools, Tarsus did not make the necessary tools. In fact, in the OTU, Tarsus need not make the necessary tools nor even own the skills necessary to use those tools. All Tarsus, or a patron of Tarsus, needs is the money necessary to buy the tools and hire the skills.

In the OTU, no system is an island. Autarky is an exception, not the rule. In fact, as the quote Mike provided earlier shows, autarky is an exception even in the proto-Traveller setting.

Over in the TTA thread, a side discussion has busily been "proving" that Pysadi "cannot" have the rail system it does because Pysadi cannot manufacture and maintain everything such a system would require. While the assumption of autarky in that position is admittedly extreme, the idea of autarky still colors thread of these types.

I've worked in Nigeria. Not only is it not First World, it's not even Third World. It's a ****hole. Lagos has drums of "smuggled" EU medical waste stacked tens of meters high in urban lots and villagers routinely drill into pressurized pipelines trying to steal fuel with catastrophic results. Nigeria manufactures little and maintains even less yet, as you note, it's peoples' day-to-day lives are closer to a purely electronic cashless society than any of those living in a First World nation.

They don't do so by choice, far from it actually. They don't do so with any devices manufactured locally. They don't do so with any systems maintained by locals. Yet the imported infrastructure, skills, and devices necessary are cheap enough that even subsistence "farmers" living in wattle huts stewing bush meat own a cell phone.

Autarky barely exists in the real world, let alone the OTU.

 

[kilemall]

... pretty much most places. for example on might readily say that the united states is "tech level 8", but if you look closely its manufacturing capability has declined dramatically. virtually all electronics are manufactured elsewhere, and over half of automobiles are manufactured elsewhere. there is only one shipyard capable of building carriers, and the company that manufactures the m1 tank makes one a week. etc. in terms of actual independent capability the united states is not much better than zimbabwe.

It would be more accurate to say the US is not 50% of world manufacturing like right after WWII, but is a more historic 20-25%, and manufacturing in general is more interdependent.

Which could be occurring in our Traveller universes.

 

[kilemall]

... because that's the only coherent approach. would you describe zimbabwe as tech level 8?

Coherent perhaps in your head, not in RL as attested to quite a bit, and more importantly not for game purposes.