IMTU I have a philathropic organization named Medics Where They're Needed local to the Duchy of Regina. And I'm sure many Red Symbol organizations (likewise IMTU, not canon) will fund various emergency response initiatives.
Hans
[Proto-Traveller] Starship Design
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
Hans
And, if I've seen it well, this is a non mobile station, depending on a starship to be carried.
To give jump 3 maneover 1 to such a payload, IIRC you'd need a 2000+ dton ship
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IMO a fantastic idea for the mash Aramis envisioned as long as you use it dirtside, but wouldn't have space capability, should you need a mobile hospital for you fleet.
I suppose part of the presumption I am making here, in the case I am making, is that many of the non-serious traumatic injuries that today would require weeks to months of recovery time, would be completely curable in a short amount of time using TL13-14-15 medicine - short enough that they would not require evacuation in a cold berth.
Only the most burned, broken, battered, and bashed cases would need to be evacuated. Hospital spaces would be able to fairly quickly turn around the more minor cases back to their ships and units. Thus, in my Imagining of the Traveller Universe, hospital ships, with recovery wards and the whole Nine Yards, would be uncommon due to lack of need.
OTOH, in a small ship universe, I will also suggest that unless you are on the winning side, space combat tends to be extremely lethal, as ships left behind in a withdrawal would certainly be totally destroyed or captured. I don't think many belligerents would spend a lot of time trying to recover live prisoners scattered to space in their P-suits. Any that used life boats, pinnaces, etc. would be easily collected or destroyed, depending on the nature of the opposition.
And, as we all know, personal combat in Traveller is extremely lethal. Treating casualties requires a mop and a bucket, in many cases.
Only the most burned, broken, battered, and bashed cases would need to be evacuated. Hospital spaces would be able to fairly quickly turn around the more minor cases back to their ships and units. Thus, in my Imagining of the Traveller Universe, hospital ships, with recovery wards and the whole Nine Yards, would be uncommon due to lack of need.
OTOH, in a small ship universe, I will also suggest that unless you are on the winning side, space combat tends to be extremely lethal, as ships left behind in a withdrawal would certainly be totally destroyed or captured. I don't think many belligerents would spend a lot of time trying to recover live prisoners scattered to space in their P-suits. Any that used life boats, pinnaces, etc. would be easily collected or destroyed, depending on the nature of the opposition.
And, as we all know, personal combat in Traveller is extremely lethal. Treating casualties requires a mop and a bucket, in many cases.
Not even a station. You COULD put it on a 1200 Td hull using Bk5...
But, this being prototraveller, that's book 2, so, yeah, the 2000 Td hull
Mercy Point Class Self-Deployed MASH.
2000Td MCr0220.0 Hull, SL
0040Td MCr0010.0 Bridge
0003Td MCr0018.0 Model 3
0115Td MCr0220.0 JD X=3
0043Td MCr0088.0 MD X=3
0067Td MCr0176.0 PP X=3
0600Td MCr0000.0 Fuel-1J3
0030Td MCr0000.0 Fuel 4wk@P3
0092Td MCr0011.5 Ship Crew 23 (CO P N 7E 3 admin 10 G)
0010Td MCr0011.0 11 tripple turrets and hardpoints
0000Td MCr0020.0 20xBeam Lasers
0000Td MCr0002.5 10x Sandcasters
1000Td MCr0250.2 MASH (see above)
====== ========= ==============================
2000Td MCr1027.2 Totals
Captain
Pilot
Navigator
engineers x7
gunners x10
Surgeons x6
Other Doctors x6
Nurses x38
Medics x39
Imaging Techs x3
Chemist x1
Drivers x9
Orderlies x18
Admins x3
Note: J3 M3... And landing capable. She can haul in 36 patients, 4 each from up to 9 discrete sites, and tend another 36 from her LZ, and operate on 6 at a whack... total staffing is 143, and has 96 long term ward beds, plus 200 "Save for REMF†" Note that she's a TL15 design, due to Drive X. Anything below TL15 is M1...
A J1 M1 P1 version would have Drives J... and be TL 11
Red Beach Class Self-Deployed MASH
2000Td MCr0220.0 Hull, SL
0040Td MCr0010.0 Bridge
0001Td MCr0002.0 Model 1
0050Td MCr0090 JD J=1
0017Td MCr0036.0 MD J=1
0028Td MCr0072.0 PP J=1
0200Td MCr0000.0 Fuel-1J1
0010Td MCr0000.0 Fuel 4wk@P1
0080Td MCr0010.0 Ship Crew 20 (CO XO P N 3E 3 admin 10 G)
0010Td MCr0011.0 11 tripple turrets and hardpoints
0000Td MCr0020.0 20xBeam Lasers
0000Td MCr0002.5 10x Sandcasters
1000Td MCr0250.2 MASH (see above)
0200Td MCr0025.0 50 additional passenger rooms as medical ward
0300Td MCr0300.0 600 additional low berths
0020Td MCr0004.0 Additional nurse stations x5 for additional passengers
0020Td MCr0002.5 Additional Nurses' Quarters.
0024Td MCr0000.0 Additional Cargo - supplies. There are still enough nurses to unthaw with bonus all the LB...
====== ========= ====== ========================
2000Td MCr1055.2 Totals
Captain
first officer
Pilot
Navigator
engineers x3
gunners x10
Surgeons x6
Other Doctors x6
Nurses x43
Medics x39
Imaging Techs x3
Chemist x1
Drivers x9
Orderlies x18
Admins x3
She's got a total of 800 popsicles, and 146 long term beds.
Total staffing is 146
For reduced fuel, maintenance, and op costs, she could be 1400 tons... J1 M1
China Beach Class Self-Deployed MASH
1400Td MCr0154.0 Hull, SL
0028Td MCr0010.0 Bridge
0001Td MCr0002.0 Model 1
0050Td MCr0090 JD J=1
0017Td MCr0036.0 MD J=1
0028Td MCr0072.0 PP J=1
0140Td MCr0000.0 Fuel-1J1
0010Td MCr0000.0 Fuel 4wk@P1
0080Td MCr0010.0 Ship Crew 20 (CO XO P N 3E 3 admin 10 G)
0010Td MCr0011.0 11 tripple turrets and hardpoints
0000Td MCr0020.0 20xBeam Lasers
0000Td MCr0002.5 10x Sandcasters
1000Td MCr0250.2 MASH (see above)
0036Td MCr0000.0 Additional Cargo - supplies.
====== ========= ====== ========================
2000Td MCr651.7 Totals
96 long term beds, total staffing 141.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Naming Rationale:
Mercy Point - short lived sci-fi medical show
Red Beach - Real Evac Hospital in 'Nam era
China Beach - Slimmer, Sexier, but less busy TV version of Red Beach...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
†REMF= Rear Echelon Medical Facility
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
@ Dean and Far Trader
THIS is why I wasn't splitting it off. I just had to have time for food, gaming, and to do the designs.
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Agreed.
The fact about if enemy's shipwrecked personnel will be recovered depends again on the fact that if there is in force somewhat like Geneva Convention. Anyway I guess they will, if only because you have no time to tell apart friendly from enemy personnel in such rescue operations, and probably there are friendly fighter pilots, and probably others to be recovered too. But enemy personnel would be placed in low berths (if you have them, but Aramis' MASH unit has a lot of them) instead of being treated (even uninjured personnel would, IMHO, as it's the safest way to avoid prisoner mutinies)
Nice design. I guess the lasers are just for anti missile use (at least if the Geneva Convention equivalent is in force).
BTW, forgot to say before, about your MASH unit, I'd change the low berths by 100 emergency low berths (cost and tonnage being the same, capacity doubled). Aside from being used to keep critical patients unable to be treated in the MASH proper, they could be used for 'waiting list' if you're overloaded with casualties or to keep prisoniers (as I said above).
Oh! Nice design, making excellent use out of all this thread material! If I arite that up it would slot well into my bk2 fleet... 
Regarding the type M medical support ship, I've decided on some new revised figures. They assume that the type M is designed as a fast turn around medical/surgical facility. Most wArships have small sickbays that can deal with routine illnesses and injuries, but for serious medical emergencies involving opening the chest, removing/replacing organs, brainsurgery etc, the ambulance is called to pick up the casualty. Here he is stabilized either for rehab on board and return ASAP to his ship, or frozen for later transfer to a hospital dirtside or maybe a hospital station or naval base.
The 120 toncargo bay has been eaten into to create 64 additional low berths, 10 extra staff rooms, and 10 extra patient rooms. Leaving 28 tons of cargo.
Total no. of patients = 60
surgeons = 2
doctors = 6
nurses = 16
medical technicians= 6
All done on my ipod, forgive errors!
Regarding the type M medical support ship, I've decided on some new revised figures. They assume that the type M is designed as a fast turn around medical/surgical facility. Most wArships have small sickbays that can deal with routine illnesses and injuries, but for serious medical emergencies involving opening the chest, removing/replacing organs, brainsurgery etc, the ambulance is called to pick up the casualty. Here he is stabilized either for rehab on board and return ASAP to his ship, or frozen for later transfer to a hospital dirtside or maybe a hospital station or naval base.
The 120 toncargo bay has been eaten into to create 64 additional low berths, 10 extra staff rooms, and 10 extra patient rooms. Leaving 28 tons of cargo.
Total no. of patients = 60
surgeons = 2
doctors = 6
nurses = 16
medical technicians= 6
All done on my ipod, forgive errors!
I wouldn't; somewhere there was a mention of a further DM-1 for thawing people from ELBs; it may be in a later edition or a magazine article. And CT/Prototraveller LB are already deadly enough. Having four die at once is also psychologically unsuitable. Plus, it's implied you have to put all 4 in at once, so if you're putting in a guy here or there, its actually half the density of putting them in standard units.
Mine is 3kton, part of the Frog class assault ship, a module for the the lower section as a field hospital.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=24762
Never read about that -1 mod. In an article about LB (I cannot recall now where, but it was MT, i'm afraid) it was told that ELB where prepared to rapid freeze, needing more time to defreeze in exchange, while frozen watch does exactly inverse, they take more precautions when freezing (so taking more time) in order to make them able to be defreeze them quicker.
I guess when you need to use them, you have casualties in quite a large quantity as being able to fill the ELB with groups of 4, so not wasting capability, even after triage allows you to tell apart those that you freeze because the cannot be treated there from those on the 'waiting list', and you don't care so much about prisoners. Again a matter of doctrine, as I see it.
Of course it could be used as a hospital for non hospital ships. In fact I see it so good as to be used as a standard module for Tenders and base ships (in HG/MT large ship universe). Even if not modular construction, as an addition to the features those ships may have built-in.
Oh! Nice design, making excellent use out of all this thread material! If I arite that up it would slot well into my bk2 fleet...
Regarding the type M medical support ship, I've decided on some new revised figures. They assume that the type M is designed as a fast turn around medical/surgical facility. Most wArships have small sickbays that can deal with routine illnesses and injuries, but for serious medical emergencies involving opening the chest, removing/replacing organs, brainsurgery etc, the ambulance is called to pick up the casualty. Here he is stabilized either for rehab on board and return ASAP to his ship, or frozen for later transfer to a hospital dirtside or maybe a hospital station or naval base.
The 120 toncargo bay has been eaten into to create 64 additional low berths, 10 extra staff rooms, and 10 extra patient rooms. Leaving 28 tons of cargo.
Total no. of patients = 60
surgeons = 2
doctors = 6
nurses = 16
medical technicians= 6
All done on my ipod, forgive errors!
I guess you will avoid nursing syndicates suiting you for being a slaver, as I was thinking about when I first saw your hospital ship design
.I guess you will avoid nursing syndicates suiting you for being a slaver, as I was thinking about when I first saw your hospital ship design
Aye! Still, you learn alot of things on this forum ... so much RW expertise applied to Traveller ..
tim_manley
SOC-12
I bought my 1st Traveller books in '78 or '79 -- all I had were the 3 LBB's. That's what I had until years later ('83 or '84 ~ish) I got book 4. So all my games were based in the rules surrounding the 3 LBB. To this day I have a full fondness for CT in its core 3 book rule set.
My first games were Battlestar Galactica & Star Wars inspired. The larger the ship got it's combat capability meant fighters, not just giant guns. Space combat meant a hit destroyed a ship's system per the rules (as memory recalls....). I recall using butcher paper and colored pencils a rule and vector math to map out space battles.
I'd also design space statoins the same way... just no jump fuel or jump engines.
My first games were Battlestar Galactica & Star Wars inspired. The larger the ship got it's combat capability meant fighters, not just giant guns. Space combat meant a hit destroyed a ship's system per the rules (as memory recalls....). I recall using butcher paper and colored pencils a rule and vector math to map out space battles.
I'd also design space statoins the same way... just no jump fuel or jump engines.
I'm a bit late, but I was really wondering about this statement, Aramis. Alaska allows 5 patients per nurse in ICU?
California and Texas both have a max of 2 patients per nurse in an ICU. I'm not sure but JCAHO requires that as well.
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Whether allowed or not, those are the numbers my ICU nurse friends are dealing with. But there's also a CNA for each nurse.
The JC (they changed their name to simply "The Joint Commission") requirements don't affect hospitals that don't use the JC for accreditation. I know our hospital is switching to a Norwegian based Det Norske Veritas (DNV) for our next accreditation cycle, primarily because they are far less costly to get accreditation through.
That being said, I believe the "standard of care" is a 2:1 ratio, but I also know that when my spouse was working in the ICU, nurse shortages and high patient loads oft times forced the ratio for more than a few nurses to 3:1. I know it happens at my current hospital as well, when staffing is short. We don't admit new patients then, but the ones we have still need care.
I believe that Alaska in general is what the government calls an "area of critical nurse shortage" so I can believe the 5:1 ration happens. It's not a good thing, but if the alternative is wheeling them out in the hall to die, then I guess you do what you gotta...
Since I started consulting, I haven't been involved in a JCAHO audit in over 7 years.
A few things about the Hospital ship that I don't see, especially if you are not intending to just evac patients:
A few things about the Hospital ship that I don't see, especially if you are not intending to just evac patients:
- a clinical lab - you need one of those with a few MLTs to run blood tests, urine tests, microbiology tests, etc
- a pathology lab would be needed for a general medical response though not likely for combat injuries
- a dietician or two would be very helpful, especially for those patients who lost a portion of their stomach or intestine
- dedicated medical supplies personnel will be necessary
- a radiation treatment facility would be necessary, I think, with nuc missiles flying around
- housekeeping staff will be needed to keep the blood contamination down
Found some good staffing data for Korean era MASH 80XX units:
15 Medical Officers, 17 Nurses, 121 enlisted medics, 60 beds. 1:4 nurse and 1:4 doctor ratio; 2:1, for a total 2.5:1 staff:bed ratio. I'll also note that it was common for them to be overflowed by 2:1...
http://www.truthhunter.info/military/coldest-war/rok-mash1.html
A Medical Corps document shows the graphical TOE (but not the detailed one):
http://armymedical.tpub.com/MD0002/MD00020147.htm
15 Medical Officers, 17 Nurses, 121 enlisted medics, 60 beds. 1:4 nurse and 1:4 doctor ratio; 2:1, for a total 2.5:1 staff:bed ratio. I'll also note that it was common for them to be overflowed by 2:1...
http://www.truthhunter.info/military/coldest-war/rok-mash1.html
A Medical Corps document shows the graphical TOE (but not the detailed one):
http://armymedical.tpub.com/MD0002/MD00020147.htm
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