May I quote you on this and give you attribution in the relevant Wiki articles?
Q: Order of Deneb, Order of the Spinward Marches, Order of the Third Imperium
- Thread starter Meteoric Assault
- Start date
May I quote you on this and give you attribution in the relevant Wiki articles?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
A second part of the Nobles coverage is planned for Imperiallines in the (hopefully) near future. Let me make sure this isn't part of that. If it is, I'll work up something differently worded for the wiki.
The meta-explanation you can drop in as a quote, if you like. Recording design decisions is almost as important as recording the design.
Noted. BTW, I had sent Robject a proofread and comments with suggestions on the draft copy of Imperiallines #8. I didn't see anything relating to the above in the version he sent me.
I also attached a few additional documents of my own with it that I had wanted to run past you or him, with some "variants" or possibly explanatory ideas as fodder to pull from for some "loose ends" in the Noble system. I don't know if you ever saw any of it or not.
You can PM me if you feel so inclined.
Also, if you have anything on the Order of the Iridium Throne, that would be nice as well.
My thoughts:
MetaData: The cards with that order were originally given out exclusively (I believe) to T5 BetaTesters, and thus were "early and trusted supporters" of the T5 effort, so to speak. All of the patents have fiefs/land grants to worlds exclusively in Core Sector, and thus "close to the Iridium Throne", figuratively speaking.
In-Game: My thoughts on the " In-game" reflection of the Order would be that it is a somewhat exclusive Order granted to a trusted circle of the Emperor in some way (and hence the reward of land grants in Core), which is also suggested by the name of the Order not just associating it with the Imperium, but with the Iridium Throne itself in a somewhat more intimate fashion.
Do you have any thoughts? For what reason or reasons might it be bestowed?
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Just so you know, unless Marc chimes in with a canonical explanation, I am super happy to instantly absorb this as canonical IMTU. Many thanks!
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Discussions with Marc led to me writing the Nobles article in the first place. He's been in the loop of the Imperiallines process the entire time.
Where do you think these orders would be headquartered? If they're all at Capital, the planet starts looking like it's all offices, with all the Knightly Orders headquartered there...
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
The picture we get of Capital in Agent is pretty close to that.
I would assume that any Order not expressly attached to a Domain is going to have offices on Capital, whether that is the Order's HQ or not.
I've expanded the descriptions in my personal notes wiki, as follows; please let me know if I've made any egregious errors of any kind. I have a seventeen-month-old daughter, and sleep is still a distant memory for me, and I am no longer sharp. The bulk of this is derived from the Traveller Wiki, just reformatted for my ease of use.
Order of the Empire said:
Order of the Iridium Throne said:
Order of the Knights Imperial said:
Order of the Third Imperium said:
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As my projected game will take place in either 1100 or 1105 (still debating with myself whether or not I need the additional 5 years before the 5FW), this is my current list of Orders of Knighthood.
Imperial Orders of Knighthood (as opposed to Sector Orders, Subsector Orders, Planetary Orders, etc.)
In order of seniority. Indented orders are considered equal in precendence; orders in red are defunct.
Imperial Orders of Knighthood (as opposed to Sector Orders, Subsector Orders, Planetary Orders, etc.)
In order of seniority. Indented orders are considered equal in precendence; orders in red are defunct.
- Order of the Starship and Crown est. 17 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Honorable Order of the Emperor's Guard est. 52 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of the Arrow est. 62 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Ancient Order of Vland est. -2000 headquarters: Vland (Vland 1717)
- Ancient and Preeminent Order of Sylea est. -500 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of Gateway est. 76 headquarters: Annapabar (Ley 1936)
- Order of Ilelish est. 76 headquarters: Dlan (Ilelish 1021)
- Royal Order of Antares est. 76 headquarters: Antares (Antares 2421)
- Order of Solest. 1002 headquarters: formerly Exeter (Diaspora 2729), currently Muan Gwi (Solomani Rim 1717)
- Order of Gvadakoung est. 642 headquarters: Antares (Antares 2421)
- Order of Hlyuea est. 642 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of Muan Gwi est. 1005 headquarters: Muan Gwi (Solomani Rim 1717)
- Order of Wampallally est. 53 headquarters: Marhaban (Empty Quarter 0426)
- Order of the Tower and Sword est. 620 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of the Iridium Throne est. -5 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of the Empire est. 630 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of the Knights Imperial est. 575 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of the Third Imperium est. 47 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of the White Star est. 640 dis. 824 headquarters: Capital (Core 2118)
- Order of Terra est. 0 dis. 1002 headquarters: Terra (Solomani Rim 2118)
- Order of the Imperial Sunburst est. 0 dis. 17
- Order of Deneb est. 589 headquarters: none (presumably Deneb (Deneb 1925), if the Order is ever activated)
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The Order of the Iridium Throne is not associated with the Knights Ordinary, per what Gypsy Comet described. I brought it up separately as another (distinct) Order that needs some clarification. The Order of the Iridium Throne sems to be somewhat exclusive and associated with some specific service to the Emperor (maybe?), but other than that it is unclear. But I would definitely separate it out from the Knights Ordinary.
Fixed. I'm not sure where it fits in seniority, then. Probably just above the Knights Ordinary. I like the idea of it slightly preceding the Third Imperium, although now that I think of it I could see Cleon using it to reward people during Cleon's Campaign, or the military actions afterwards. That would push its founding date back a bit.
EDIT: How's the rest of it look? The last time I ran, I didn't pay much attention to the "noble" player characters at my table, which I now regret. Since there's social organizations attached to it, it's a great opportunity to mess with the PC -- patrons, rivalries, all sorts of plots are available when a character has entanglements.
Also, remember that Grand Commander or Knight Grand Commander is a rank of the highest level within an Order, and there may be more than one individual of that level just as at lower ranks (it depends on the individual Order). The Grand Master is the Head of the Order, and is an appointed position to someone occupying the highest rank within the Order.
In the Western Orders of Knighthood from various countries and traditions, given orders have historically included rank names of the various forms listed below that are specified based on the individual Order of Knighthood. Not all Orders have all levels (some have only one level), and some can have more than one rank from a single given level. Some Orders consider all members to be Knights by definition; others consider only members of a particular class or higher to be properly Knights, others merely being non-Knightly gentlemen of the Order. In the latter case, the Rank-name for Knights-proper is almost always prefixed with the term "Knight-" in distinction from the non-Knightly ranks.
ADDENDUM: It is also possible to appoint someone to the position of a "Bachelor Knighthood" (i.e. a Knight belonging to no Order). In the absence of another Order, a Bachelor Knight uses the post-nominal abbreviation "Kt." after the name, (NOT "KT", as that would symbolize the initials of an Order). In the UK, the Sovereign will sometimes appoint someone to an Order of Knighthood at a non-Knightly rank (e.g. "O.B.E. : Officer of the British Empire") and at the same time dub them a Bachelor Knight. The person then becomes "John Smith, O.B.E, and Sir John Smith, Kt, at the same time, and is thus properly titled and referred to as "Sir John Smith, O.B.E.".
In the Traveller context I would probably also "bump" Knight Grand Commander up to Class I, as Knight Grand Cross and Commander Grand Cross would likely be much rarer and associated with Orders that trace a history back to Old Terra (or at least to interstellar Old Terran Cultures).
In the Western Orders of Knighthood from various countries and traditions, given orders have historically included rank names of the various forms listed below that are specified based on the individual Order of Knighthood. Not all Orders have all levels (some have only one level), and some can have more than one rank from a single given level. Some Orders consider all members to be Knights by definition; others consider only members of a particular class or higher to be properly Knights, others merely being non-Knightly gentlemen of the Order. In the latter case, the Rank-name for Knights-proper is almost always prefixed with the term "Knight-" in distinction from the non-Knightly ranks.
| Class | Common names |
| I | Grand Cordon, Grand Collar, Grand Cross, Commander Grand Cross |
| II | Knight Companion, Knight Commander, Commander 1st Class, Grand Officer, Grand Commander |
| III | Companion, Commander, Commander 2nd Class |
| IV | Officer, Member 1st Class, Lieutenant, Knight 1st Class |
| V | Member, Member 2nd Class, Chevalier, Knight, Knight 2nd Class |
ADDENDUM: It is also possible to appoint someone to the position of a "Bachelor Knighthood" (i.e. a Knight belonging to no Order). In the absence of another Order, a Bachelor Knight uses the post-nominal abbreviation "Kt." after the name, (NOT "KT", as that would symbolize the initials of an Order). In the UK, the Sovereign will sometimes appoint someone to an Order of Knighthood at a non-Knightly rank (e.g. "O.B.E. : Officer of the British Empire") and at the same time dub them a Bachelor Knight. The person then becomes "John Smith, O.B.E, and Sir John Smith, Kt, at the same time, and is thus properly titled and referred to as "Sir John Smith, O.B.E.".
In the Traveller context I would probably also "bump" Knight Grand Commander up to Class I, as Knight Grand Cross and Commander Grand Cross would likely be much rarer and associated with Orders that trace a history back to Old Terra (or at least to interstellar Old Terran Cultures).
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Looks good.
Great list. One note: in 1105 the headquarters for the Order of Sol would still be on Exeter rather than Muan Gwi. I don't think Archduke Adair moves the domain capital until 1110 or maybe 1116 in the GURPS timeline.
Check on the Nobles of Exeter or Nobles of Muan Gwi page on the wiki. I think it is ~1112/1113.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
It is also quite reasonable that the Order would keep its traditional HQ on Exeter even after the move by Adair. Offices and even necessary ceremonial facilities could be duplicated at Muan Gwi, but the oldest records and deepest traditions could still reside on Exeter.
I can no longer edit the post, but fixed, thank you.
I'm using @nickgark 's TiddlyWiki for Traveller, and it's working really nicely. It lets me add Orders of Knighthood, and since the list is generated dynamically it's automatically updated and I don't need to do anything else. Which is good, because I'm getting to the more obscure Orders in my research...
GT: Rim of Fire has the Archduke declaring his intention to move the domain capital in 1112, with the Muan Gwi capital becoming operational in 1114 and the Archduke himself taking up residence in 1115. The same timeline is repeated in GT: Nobles. So it's a little mushy.
Not sure if these dates are the same in the Rebellion timeline (or even if the capital moves at all, for that matter).
