Q: Order of Deneb, Order of the Spinward Marches, Order of the Third Imperium

[AlHazred]

I read the adventures that concern the Order of the Blue Feather; the events actually start with "Snowblind" in Challenge #45. The Order's Oath is given on page 25 of Challenge #47, and specifies that the purpose of the Order is to "preserve and reestablish" the Third Imperium, leading me to conclude it was created by Duchess Margaret Yetrina Tukera after 1116. Too early for my games, but a good PC organization for games set in the Shattered Imperium. On the decorations and awards front, it also mentions a "Honor of the Warlord Supreme of Ral Ranta" decoration, as being very rare for even citizens of the Ral Ranta Empire, so another shiny medal for your noble PCs.

 

[AlHazred]

The Naval Order of Cleon V
Founded in 615 to reward the naval commanders who re-conquered the Home Worlds, this may now be awarded to all serving naval personnel; it is awarded in four degrees
Member (MCV) awarded to other ranks carrying a pension but not a knighthood
Knight (KCV) awarded to those of Petty Officer rank and higher
Knight Commander (KCCV) awarded to officers only
and Grand Knight (GKCV) awarded to officers of flag rank
The Order’s badge is an Imperial Sunburst in red enamel set with a fouled anchor in bronze (members), silver (knights) or gold (knight commanders and above). Members wear this as a badge, knights and above on either
a pendant ribbon or with a sash of black-red-black, grand knights additionally wear a knotted gold cord on the hilt of their dress daggers. The Grand Master (GMCV) is the Lord High Admiral who is appointed to the Order
on his promotion if he is not already a member; the current holder is Duke Jean Soult.

Order of Steel:
Another Military Order of Chivalry; created by the Emperor Constantus in 609, to reward his fellow army officers. Emperor Nicolai confirmed the decoration during his brief reign; ironically his successor George murdered
the Emperor just after being created a Knight of the Order. The Order can be awarded in four degrees;
Member (MOS) awarded to other ranks carrying a pension,
Knight (KOS) awarded to NCOs and above
Knight Commander (KCOS) awarded to officers
Grand Knight (GKOS) awarded to general officers
The insignia of the Order is a base metal greek cross with a rim of black enamel(Members and Knights), or silver(Knight Commanders and above). Members wear this as a badge, Knights and above on either a
pendant ribbon or with sash of dove gray, grand knights wear a grey knotted cord on their dress swords. The Marshal-General is Grand Master (GMOS) of the Order; this appointment is immediate on promotion
to Marshal-General.

I finally got around to checking out these Orders. It seems very appropriate that there be Orders for members of the military branches for when they acquire their +1 SOC and get to Knight rank. There should probably be one for the Marines, too, though I can't recall off-hand if they get +1 SOC from any of their rolls (I'm a CT guy).

Looking at the Wiki, there's mention of an Order of Ashurgash for Army knights from the FFE T5 Wiki, but it's a dead link. Looking for other canonical Orders, there's the Guide to Classic Traveller which has the sentence: "Nobility was awarded in four “Orders:” The Order of the Emperor’s Guard. The Order of the Plume, The Order of the Cube, and The Order of the Victor." I wonder if the Plume, Cube, and Victor could be the military branch Orders?

 

[aramis]

I finally got around to checking out these Orders. It seems very appropriate that there be Orders for members of the military branches for when they acquire their +1 SOC and get to Knight rank. There should probably be one for the Marines, too, though I can't recall off-hand if they get +1 SOC from any of their rolls (I'm a CT guy).

Looking at the Wiki, there's mention of an Order of Ashurgash for Army knights from the FFE T5 Wiki, but it's a dead link. Looking for other canonical Orders, there's the Guide to Classic Traveller which has the sentence: "Nobility was awarded in four “Orders:” The Order of the Emperor’s Guard. The Order of the Plume, The Order of the Cube, and The Order of the Victor." I wonder if the Plume, Cube, and Victor could be the military branch Orders?

Plume is probably not military... plume quills are the standard symbol for scribes and authors in heraldry.
Order of the Victor almost certainly is military.

 

[AlHazred]

Plume is probably not military... plume quills are the standard symbol for scribes and authors in heraldry.
Order of the Victor almost certainly is military.

I wonder if the Order of the Cube is a meta-joke about six-sided dice...

 

[AlHazred]

In which case, perhaps Order of the Plume is to recognize excellence in the Arts, Order of the Cube is to recognize excellence in Mathematics and the Sciences, and Order of the Victor is one of the military orders? Would the Army, Navy, and Marines share an Order, or would they have exclusive Orders?

 

[AlHazred]

The following orders are noted in sources, but there's no real definition and they need expansion.

• The Order of Ashurgash (from a T5 wiki that used to be on the traveller5.net page, for military members mostly of Vilani descent)
• The Order of the Sword (from the Mongoose Third Imperium book, for military members)
• The Order of the Victor (from Marc Miller's Guide to Classic Traveller, mention only)
• The Order of the Plume (from Marc Miller's Guide to Classic Traveller, mention only)
• The Order of the Cube (from Marc Miller's Guide to Classic Traveller, mention only)
• The Order of Fusion (from the Mongoose Third Imperium book, for scientific achievement)

@whulorigan has gone through in the wiki and at least assigned speculative ranks for these Orders, but it would be great if there was further detail on what specifically they were for. I like the Naval Order of Cleon V and Order of Steel from @GypsyComet because they at least tell you what they're for. I wonder if Marc is too busy to answer an email about an excessively nerdy point of minutia, because I feel like he never put anything in one of the books without having something in mind.

EDIT: Also, I can see I'm going to have to pick up the Mongoose Third Imperium book.

EDIT2: Another question that occurs to me, looking at Sector Orders, is how the Reft and Corridor Sector Orders funciton, given that they straddle the Great Rift. In the thousands of years since the founding of the Imperium, some traditions and protocols must have been put into place.

 

[TamsinP]

In which case, perhaps Order of the Plume is to recognize excellence in the Arts, Order of the Cube is to recognize excellence in Mathematics and the Sciences, and Order of the Victor is one of the military orders? Would the Army, Navy, and Marines share an Order, or would they have exclusive Orders?

There's no reason why the different military branches wouldn't share an order. If they do so, then emblems/sashes may have an element in the colour associated with the member's service branch (eg maroon for Marines).

For example, in the UK there are two Orders of Knighthood which have military and civil divisions - the Most Honourable Order of the Bath (senior military officers) and the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (other military); there are differences in insignia and regalia between ranks and divisions.

 

[AlHazred]

There's no reason why the different military branches wouldn't share an order. If they do so, then emblems/sashes may have an element in the colour associated with the member's service branch (eg maroon for Marines).

For example, in the UK there are two Orders of Knighthood which have military and civil divisions - the Most Honourable Order of the Bath (senior military officers) and the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (other military); there are differences in insignia and regalia between ranks and divisions.

Hmmm... I wonder then if there are separate orders for military officers and enlisted/NCOs? Perhaps the Order of the Sword for enlisted/NCOs and Order of the Victor for officers? And military branch designations in how the insignia is displayed, as you said.

EDIT: I mean, ideally, I'd love for it to be divided like everything else is in the books, Merchant Prince guys get X, Bureaucrats (Supp 4) get Y, Scientists (also Supp 4) get Z, and so on. Of course, Real Life is never so simple and we're talking about a setting with an additional several thousand years of development.

 

[GypsyComet]

Real Life is never so simple and we're talking about a setting with an additional several thousand years of development.

Marc has a stated preference for variety, as well. It's why my article mentions that modes of address vary by time and place. The Imperium is huge, and built on the idea that worlds are different by default.

 

[AlHazred]

Marc is always gracious and responded to my email question by sending me a better-quality image of the Patent of Nobility that can be seen in Guide to Classic Traveller, which meant I could read the footnote.

It is the policy of the Imperium to award patents of nobility for various acts of importance performed by its subjects. Such awards may be made for a wide variety of reasons.
Reason 1: The Imperium reserves the right to award any patent for any reason of its own. Generally, such a patent will include induction into the Order of the Emperors Guard (abbreviated OEG).
Reason 2: Individuals who write articles about Traveller which are published in recognized major circulation game magazines are recognized by induction into the Order of Distinguished Merit (abbreviated ODM).
Reason 3: Authors of science-fiction stories, novels, and other works at against the background of the Traveler universe, or which use any aspect of the Traveller game system, and which appear in the professional press are inducted into the Order of the Plume (abbreviated OP). The acknowledgement of the influence of Traveller is sufficient to qualify it.
Reason 4: Authors of Traveller adventures, play-aids, and variants are recognized with induction into the Order of the Cube (abbreviated OC). Only official or approved items allow eligibility.
Reason 5: Winners of officially- sanctioned Traveller tournaments (including rule- playing tournaments, boardgame tournaments, and Trillion Credit Squadron competitions) are recognized by induction into the Order of the Victor (abbreviated OV).

So that answers some questions!

 

[whulorigan]

Marc is always gracious and responded to my email question by sending me a better-quality image of the Patent of Nobility that can be seen in Guide to Classic Traveller, which meant I could read the footnote.

It is the policy of the Imperium to award patents of nobility for various acts of importance performed by its subjects. Such awards may be made for a wide variety of reasons.
Reason 1: The Imperium reserves the right to award any patent for any reason of its own. Generally, such a patent will include induction into the Order of the Emperors Guard (abbreviated OEG).
Reason 2: Individuals who write articles about Traveller which are published in recognized major circulation game magazines are recognized by induction into the Order of Distinguished Merit (abbreviated ODM).
Reason 3: Authors of science-fiction stories, novels, and other works at against the background of the Traveler universe, or which use any aspect of the Traveller game system, and which appear in the professional press are inducted into the Order of the Plume (abbreviated OP). The acknowledgement of the influence of Traveller is sufficient to qualify it.
Reason 4: Authors of Traveller adventures, play-aids, and variants are recognized with induction into the Order of the Cube (abbreviated OC). Only official or approved items allow eligibility.
Reason 5: Winners of officially- sanctioned Traveller tournaments (including rule- playing tournaments, boardgame tournaments, and Trillion Credit Squadron competitions) are recognized by induction into the Order of the Victor (abbreviated OV).


So that answers some questions!

Thanks for the research.

 

[AlHazred]

So it looks like Order of the Emperor's Guard was generic, Distinguished Merit was for reviews, the Plume was for fiction, the Cube was for game mechanics articles, and the Victor was for tournament winners. In-game, I make that out as: the Plume is for excellence in the arts, especially literature; and, the Victor was for military strategists. Not sure how to translate the Cube and Distinguished Merit.

EDIT: Actually, if I make "game mechanics" translate to "how the universe works," I could see the Cube being for advancements in Science.

 

[Enoki]

I'd inject, that this version of nobility is far too focused on military prowess / rank and insufficiently focused on anything else. Given the layout of the 3I, I'd think that there would be far more nobles based on non-military (business, politics, arts, sciences, etc.) than military achievement. The majority of the 3I would appear to be relatively stable and war free leaving little opportunity for social advancement into nobility by combat while there would be opportunities to become a noble by accomplishments outside of war.

 

[kilemall]

I'd inject, that this version of nobility is far too focused on military prowess / rank and insufficiently focused on anything else. Given the layout of the 3I, I'd think that there would be far more nobles based on non-military (business, politics, arts, sciences, etc.) than military achievement. The majority of the 3I would appear to be relatively stable and war free leaving little opportunity for social advancement into nobility by combat while there would be opportunities to become a noble by accomplishments outside of war.

Story not sim.

 

[Enoki]

Story not sim.

Even in terms of story, non-military nobles would be of importance. A noble merchant as a patron is likely to have far more cash than a military noble. An artist or other celebrity who is a noble could make for a good scenario. Shoot 'em ups get old when that's all you do.

 

[whulorigan]

. . Distinguished Merit was for reviews,. . . the Cube was for game mechanics articles, . . . In-game, I make that out as: the Plume is for excellence in the arts, especially literature; and, the Victor was for military strategists. Not sure how to translate the Cube and Distinguished Merit.

EDIT: Actually, if I make "game mechanics" translate to "how the universe works," I could see the Cube being for advancements in Science.

Even in terms of story, non-military nobles would be of importance. A noble merchant as a patron is likely to have far more cash than a military noble. An artist or other celebrity who is a noble could make for a good scenario. Shoot 'em ups get old when that's all you do.

For Order of the Cube or Order of Distinguished Merit I could also see for Political or Diplomatic Success. That is certainly an organic element of "How the Universe Works / Mechanics. . . " or of "Reviews/politics/proposals/diplomatic or ambassadorial discourse". The United Kingdom has the Order of St. Michael and St. George for a similar appointment.

• Order of the Cube = Discovery/Advancement in Sciences (Jumpspace Research?)
• Order of Distinguished Merit = Diplomacy / Ambassadorial Service / Foreign Office

 

[AlHazred]

For Order of the Cube or Order of Distinguished Merit I could also see for Political or Diplomatic Success. That is certainly an organic element of "How the Universe Works / Mechanics. . . " or of "Reviews/politics/proposals/diplomatic or ambassadorial discourse". The United Kingdom has the Order of St. Michael and St. George for a similar appointment.

• Order of the Cube = Discovery/Advancement in Sciences (Jumpspace Research?)
• Order of Distinguished Merit = Diplomacy / Ambassadorial Service / Foreign Office

An added element -- the bottom of the footnote has some added interest:

Styles of Nobility: The actual style of address and designation of any noble depends on all patents held, but only the highest is normally used in address. For formal occasions, all titles are used. The highest is given first; lower titles follow in order of precedence (but, the Sir of knighthood always preceeds the name). Military rank preceeds the Sir of knighthood, but follows any higher noble title held. Orders of knighthood follow in the order presented. For example, the Duke of Regina is Duke Commander Sir Norris, of Regina, Count Aledon, Marquis of Regina, Baron Yori, OEG, OC, ODM. The Countess of Celepina is Contessa General Sir Aia, of Celepina, Marquessa Celepina, Baroness Zivije, OEG. The Marquis of Aramis is Marquis Sir Leonard haultAramin, of Aramis, ODM. The Baron Yorbund is Baron Sir Gavin, of Yorbund, OP, ODM.

So, apparently, Duke Norris is Order of the Emperor's Guard, Order of the Cube, and Order of Distinguished Merit, in that order. Looks like precedence is Emperor's Guard > Plume > Distinguished Merit > Cube.

 

[whulorigan]

An added element -- the bottom of the footnote has some added interest:

Styles of Nobility:

That is interesting, as it differs from British usage, AFAIK (which is what most English speakers tend to default to). In British usage (IIRC), the Military Title comes first, then the full (highest) Noble title, such as General Lord Cornwallis, or General The Viscount Dundee.

 

[whulorigan]

An added element -- the bottom of the footnote has some added interest:

​

So, apparently, Duke Norris is Order of the Emperor's Guard, Order of the Cube, and Order of Distinguished Merit, in that order. Looks like precedence is Emperor's Guard > Plume > Distinguished Merit > Cube.

It would have to be:

• Emperor's Guard > Cube > Plume > Distinguished Merit .

OR​

• Emperor's Guard > Plume > Cube >Distinguished Merit .

 

[whulorigan]

The Duke of Regina is Duke Commander Sir Norris, of Regina, Count Aledon, Marquis of Regina, Baron Yori, OEG, OC, ODM.
The Countess of Celepina is Contessa General Sir Aia, of Celepina, Marquessa Celepina, Baroness Zivije, OEG.
The Marquis of Aramis is Marquis Sir Leonard haultAramin, of Aramis, ODM.
The Baron Yorbund is Baron Sir Gavin, of Yorbund, OP, ODM.

This also gives some direction as to interpretation of the award of membership of the orders in-game. Since we have canonical information about Leonard hault-Aramin Bolden-Tukera and Norris Aeela Aledon and their careers, we can ask why they might have been granted the awards.