RotK (Cause You All Know Yer Fans)

[Whipsnade]

Paraquat Johnson wrote:

"Legolas hits the Uruk-hai twice. The second arrow brings him down, but the Uruk-hai dives forward to deliver the torch."


Mr. Johnson,

Picky, picky.

As Mr. Barclay points out, the idea that Saruman couldn't/wouldn't touch off the two petards from his comfy reading nook at Isengard is silly. Legolas, and plenty of other archers - including the old fellow atop the keep who kills the first uruk with his pitiful human bow, seem to be able to slay uruks at will. And yet, the uruk berseker shrugs off one arrow hit and is able to complete its mission after a being pronged a second time. Saruman must brew one hell of a Fourth Age combat drug!

Let's just chalk it up to poetic license.

"The RotK strategy problem I had was the Gondorians under Faramir at Osgiliath allowing the enemy boats to land, and the enemy troops to unload, before they started attacking." (snip of other oopsies)

Such are the flaws of the cinema - sigh. When was the last time you saw any examples of competent tactical, operational, or strategic thinking on any movie screen? HBO's 'Band of Brothers' is the only one that comes to my pointy head. Preminger's WW2 flick, 'In Harm's Way', could - at a stretch - be another. Can anyone think of any others?

Sadly, most movies have tactics straight out of 'Starship Troopers'. I'm sure Mr. Cruise's latest 'epic', "The Last Samurai", has plenty of battlefield groaners.

The specialized knowledge our hobbies impart to us diminish certain aspects of cinema for us. I'm sure doctors squirm during operating theater scenes, lawyers seethe during courtroom scenes, and cowboys hoot at depictions of ranch life.

And life goes on...


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

kaladorn explained:

"Galadriel's Gift - Get the long version."


Mr. Barclay,

Got it, but didn't remember Sam the Gardener getting the box with the 'pixie dust' and mallorn nut.

"You're Saruman. Surely you can light a fuse at a distance."

'Zactly. He's controlling a mountain storm, complete with lightning, at the Pass of Caradas(sp) all the way from Isengard. But no simple parlor trick to light a fuse or two at Helm's Deep? (shrug) The uruk berserker is more cinematic, I guess.

"I figure Legolas alone accounted for 200+ Orcs and Goblins and Harradrim in the three movies. Now, there may not be many elves, but you need damn few with those kind of relative kill counts...."

Yeah, ol' Leg-o-lamb(1) is naught but a bipedal 404 Cicular Buzzsaw. Thanks to the movies, munchkins of all stripes are going to be tormenting GMs with various arguments from here on out. "But my Shield Surfing Feat combined with my Buzzsaw Feat means I can take out 214 orcs per combat round! WAHHHH!"

Despite Legolas' absurd combat attributes, the other elves seem almost - gasp - human! The elves in the prologue battle scene do have a nifty combat maneuver with their double-ended hockey sticks of doom, but the elves in the movies have more prosaic abilities. A few Legolas-type elves would have kept the walls at Helm's Deep uruk free and a few of the same would have sealed the breach quite handily. Did you notice they simply stood there watching the uruks pour in through a hole a few yards wide until Aragorn shook off his concussion and called them forward? "Hey, Fingolfbag, the uruks are coming through that breech. Shouldn't we do something?" "Nah, Fingolftee, just wait for orders..."


Sincerely,
Larsen

1 - Thank you 'Bored of the Rings'!

 

[kaladorn]

Larsen, you've made me chuckle (again)!

Bored-of-the-Ring deserves as much revival as the Trilogy. It was rib-busting at points. I especially like Moxie and Chutzpah (Merry and Pip). And the fact all Bogies (Hobbits) had the habit (in a battle) of playing Dead then stabbing you in the kidneys when you weren't looking....

Anyway, an action movie with reasonably intelligent characters was the Clancy movie where they attack Harrison Ford at the beach house - their interrogation of the Quisling was priceless and instead of hiding in the basement waiting to get killed, they retreated, but left an armed reargaurd who ambushed the invaders. Not bad.

For fantasy or sci-fi movies, its tough to find one where the battlefield tactics are terribly well thought out. Even Aliens, which I loved, featured a brain dead NCO who was willing to collect all the ammo from his men but keep the mission going despite poor comms, telemetry, and being virtually unarmed. Lovely....

One I forgot to take up: Elves exposed to fire on the battlements: Indirect fire is less effectual, hence being able to see your opponent, and generally they you, was a good thing. Yes, arrow slits are preferable to Merlons. (And lower density on the walls might have worked just about as well). But the arrow slit was an Archimidean invention and not everyone is Archimides of Syracuse.

As for the Elves fighting prowess - I think Legolas is a hero. Clearly so are Aragorn and Gimli. They kill *lots* of stuff each in all the movies. But all Elves (and presumably Dwarves) are not up to this, or else Helm's Deep would have been an allied walkover and Moria would be in Dwarven hands, Balrog or no. So that's not so bad. I did think Halidir of Lorien died a cheesy death.

Now, as to Shield Surfing Feats.... Watch for the Oliphant Boarding and un-saddling move and the Trunk Surfing....

Mind you, my Elves in my AD&D world are that deadly - spend a few hundred or a thousand years practicing, you get pretty damn dangerous. You just don't breed fast... unlike Uruks and Goblins and such.