Shipboard Conditions

[AnotherDilbert]

No, not half the space.

quartering Size	HP	MP	SP	LP	Crew
4Td Stateroom	1	2	4	0	2
2Td Small Stateroom	0	1	2	0	2
1Td Bunk	0	0	1	0	2
0.5Td Low Berth	0	0	0	1	1

[tc=6]Number shown is number of such passengers who may share that fitting.[/tc]

I don't know where that table comes from, but it does not seem to agree with TNE Core or FFS.


High Passage

Each High Passage passenger requires one stateroom (large or small).

HP requires small stateroom (or more), so 2 Dt required, half of CT.


Middle Passage

Middle Passage passengers require one stateroom (large or small) in the Regency, but are placed two to a large stateroom in the Wilds (never two to a small).

MP requires 2 Dt, so half of CT.


Crew

Civilian crew are usually accommodated two to a large stateroom, or one to a small stateroom in the case of officers.

Crew generally requires 2 Dt, half of CT.


Military Crew

Military crew are usually accommodated at best like civilian crew, but will often be carried at double occupancy (two per small, four per large stateroom) or greater, or even housed in bunks. Bunks may be multiple-occupied by "hot bunking," by sleeping in three shifts per 24-hour period.

Military crew generally requires 1 Dt, half of CT.
Triple hot-bunking would be an exception, but I would consider that exceptional and requiring correspondingly larger common areas.


Steerage

Steerage: This is not used in the Regency, which still operates under the old Imperial travel regulations that outlaw steerage travel. Steerage requires the passenger to travel in some small space, usually ½ ton to one ton, leftover in the cargo bay.

Some crews will pack eight or more steerage passengers into a single stateroom.

Steerage seems to use very little space, but is not comparable to CT.


Low Passage
I agree that Low Berths use the same space, but I assumed the discussion was about staterooms.

 

[Selandia]

I plan on stealing from there.

Honestly All I really want is some ballpark numbers for Galley Space. Though honestly a 2 dTon space can support 20 to 30 meals an hour of Fine Dining and two to three times that with lesser quality/choice. That is assuming a 2 person staff, so we could say a dTon per 10 High passengers the following the steward ratio.

From T5


Type (days) People Tons MCr
H Short Term (4) (10) 0 0
S Standard (30) (10) 1 1.0
L Long-Term (120) (10) 2 2.0
U Luxury (10) 1 1.0
A Adaptable (10) 1 1.0

the T5 problem is that there is no place in the accomodation page where the specific issue of cooking and related expendable is treated. We are kind stuck in estimating the "life support" as every time x persons related expamdables

The logic of the size of the kitchen in T5 is taken in the general vision of tariffs based on space per person. Therefore, mgiven efficient use of space, more space more comfort more money per passage or more passengers. So use whatever in your T universe would make commercial sense. Once you are coherent, so be it.

IMTU A refrigerated locker with ready trays of real food and a grill-toaster + mocrowave on a counter is just some lounge space.

have fun

Selandia

 

[infojunky]

the T5 problem is that there is no place in the accomodation page where the specific issue of cooking and related expendable is treated. We are kind stuck in estimating the "life support" as every time x persons related expamdables

The logic of the size of the kitchen in T5 is taken in the general vision of tariffs based on space per person. Therefore, mgiven efficient use of space, more space more comfort more money per passage or more passengers. So use whatever in your T universe would make commercial sense. Once you are coherent, so be it.

IMTU A refrigerated locker with ready trays of real food and a grill-toaster + mocrowave on a counter is just some lounge space.

I actually like T5's common space idea just looking for some more utility across the board. Some bits are easy others a few guidelines would help.

Easy things Gym 0.5 ton per person, Office/reading nook or the like .5 ton per person etc. etc...

 

[Timerover51]

I plan on stealing from there.

Honestly All I really want is some ballpark numbers for Galley Space. Though honestly a 2 dTon space can support 20 to 30 meals an hour of Fine Dining and two to three times that with lesser quality/choice. That is assuming a 2 person staff, so we could say a dTon per 10 High passengers the following the steward ratio.

The US Coast Guard Buoy Tender and Ice Breaker Bramble has a Galley of about 10 feet by 15 feet for a crew of 50, or two by three 1.5 meter squares, but that does not include food storage space. The US Army in World War 2 budgeted 3 cubic feet of refrigerator space per man per month. One long ton of Class A rations, which would include frozen and refrigerated items occupies 94 cubic feet of space, so one Traveller dTon will hold approximately 5 tons of rations.

A compact galley used by the US Navy after World War 2 for long-endurance patrol planes occupied a space of approximately 1 meter by 1 meter by 1.5 meters, but did not include washing facilities. Based on this, a small galley for a Scout Ship would occupy a 1.5 by 1.5 by 2 meter space, and this would include washing facilities. This would require one-half a dTon of space.

A 1.5 meter cube would supply more than sufficient frozen food space for 15 humans for one month. Another 1.5 meter cube would supply more than adequate refrigerated food storage for 15 humans for a month. Two additional 1.5 meter cubes would supply adequate storage space for about 1,800 man-days of non-perishable food or over 200 cases of 5 in 1 rations, capable of feeding 5 humans for one day with non-perishable food. This would be over and above the refrigerated space. Note, the non-perishable foods would be canned and not Meals, Ready to Eat.

The water requirements would be between 15 and 30 gallons per person per day, but I would assume highly efficient recycling of water so that 30 to 60 gallons of water per person on board should be adequate. A cubic meter of water is equal to 264 gallons.

All of this data is taken from official US Army supply and logistics manuals that I would have been using as an Army Quartermaster officer for planning purposes. I hope that this is all useful to you.

 

[khadaji2002]

Thank you, timerover! Those numbers do help a lot, for me anyway. Knowing what kinds of numbers to look at means I can design a lounge/galley area in my ships and know there's some basis to the numbers. Thank you again!

 

[Timerover51]

Thank you, timerover! Those numbers do help a lot, for me anyway. Knowing what kinds of numbers to look at means I can design a lounge/galley area in my ships and know there's some basis to the numbers. Thank you again!

You are very welcome.

 

[infojunky]

The US Coast Guard Buoy Tender and Ice Breaker Bramble has a Galley of about 10 feet by 15 feet for a crew of 50, or two by three 1.5 meter squares, but that does not include food storage space. The US Army in World War 2 budgeted 3 cubic feet of refrigerator space per man per month. One long ton of Class A rations, which would include frozen and refrigerated items occupies 94 cubic feet of space, so one Traveller dTon will hold approximately 5 tons of rations.

A compact galley used by the US Navy after World War 2 for long-endurance patrol planes occupied a space of approximately 1 meter by 1 meter by 1.5 meters, but did not include washing facilities. Based on this, a small galley for a Scout Ship would occupy a 1.5 by 1.5 by 2 meter space, and this would include washing facilities. This would require one-half a dTon of space.

A 1.5 meter cube would supply more than sufficient frozen food space for 15 humans for one month. Another 1.5 meter cube would supply more than adequate refrigerated food storage for 15 humans for a month. Two additional 1.5 meter cubes would supply adequate storage space for about 1,800 man-days of non-perishable food or over 200 cases of 5 in 1 rations, capable of feeding 5 humans for one day with non-perishable food. This would be over and above the refrigerated space. Note, the non-perishable foods would be canned and not Meals, Ready to Eat.

The water requirements would be between 15 and 30 gallons per person per day, but I would assume highly efficient recycling of water so that 30 to 60 gallons of water per person on board should be adequate. A cubic meter of water is equal to 264 gallons.

All of this data is taken from official US Army supply and logistics manuals that I would have been using as an Army Quartermaster officer for planning purposes. I hope that this is all useful to you.

Coolness it goes a long way towards some rules of thumb...

 

[Major B]

I actually like T5's common space idea just looking for some more utility across the board. Some bits are easy others a few guidelines would help.

Easy things Gym 0.5 ton per person, Office/reading nook or the like .5 ton per person etc. etc...

Take a look at the micro galley entry from T5.09:

Galley, Micro​

TL 9, Size 6, 500 kg, Cr 2,000. (0.5 dtons)​

Includes: Sink; Dishwasher with various pots pans and​

dishes stored in it; a fast-cooking oven (at eye level); 1.0​

meter x 0.5 meter counter top; pull/fold out table 1 meter x​

0.5 meter, seats two; Folding chairs under counter; Apartment​

sized refrigerator for keeping certain beverages cold;​

under cabinet coffeepot (just below eye level) just add dried​

dehydrate beverage of choice (makes one liter at a time);​

cabinets for ready to grab dry goods; two burner induction​

stove; cleaner bot stowed under the cabinets.

If this is adequate galley space for two crew plus maybe two to four more (working shifts), then maybe you could use it to extrapolate the size required for larger crews. Of course the extrapolation can't be exact but at least it gives you something to use for comparison.

In a recent design I carved out galley space from crew common areas as you mentioned. But I used this micro galley on the carried craft for use on trips longer than a couple of hours. But that was for a Navy ship. A civilian ship may have similar conveniences for the crew but high passengers would demand more space.

 

[Condottiere]

Paper plates and plastic cutlery seems easier.

 

[Grav_Moped]

...but only for very short term use. Otherwise, storage space becomes an issue.

 

[robject]

Take a look at the micro galley entry from T5.09:

You can thank Craig Glesner for that entry.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Not quiet...

You can thank Craig A. Glesner for that entry.

Actually it was Michael Morgan, and one of my player David Martz or Rudolf The Count Interhaus who desired one for his packet yacht.

On the other hand I can say I am one for cool and useful Components like Shops, Brigs, Gardens, and Galleys.

Just keep the record straight.

 

[Condottiere]

Print paper plates and plastic cutlery as needed, than recycle.

 

[Major B]

You can thank Craig Glesner for that entry.

Thank you Craig.

 

[Selandia]

Thank you Craig.

thank you whomever make the system frendly
have fun
selandia