Sniper rifles: What do you use?

[archhealer]

Ok, obviously, a sniper needs to rely mostly on their own skill. However, in most modern/future/sci fi shows and movies, snipers usually have some kind of large, unwieldy weapon that is barely portable (at least when assembled) but has loads of sighting gear attatched and allows them to not only see but hit a fly 300 yards away.

Now, I'm aware that's relatively unrealistic, but still, it seems that T20 is sadly wanting in this area. HUDs are ok, and laser sights and scopes are available, but really don't seem to do much, in the long run.

Also, I've noticed that when perusing the weapon descriptions both in the THB and the TAS Personal Weapons supplement, there's nothing really listed as being for long-range, accurate fire purposes. What do you all use?

 

[Valarian]

The D20 Modern SRD has got stats for the Barrett Light Fifty sniper rifle (120ft range increment). If you need something a bit lighter, there are a couple of hunting rifles as well. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd)

 

[veltyen]

I kludged a modification to the weapon system and used different scope rules.

A retired marine sniper in my game had the following.

Based on a gauss rifle, heavy (double the weight and cost for +1die damage, uses different ammo), long range (twice) (double the cost, no extra weight if taken with heavy, +50 weight otherwise, adds +50% range), masterwork (double cost, +1 to hit). When possible match grade (masterwork) ammo was used. Inbuilt grip for unarmored use and mounting bracket for battledress.

Custom Gauss Rifle
Cost 24,000 Cr
TL 15
Weight 10.5 kg
Rof 1/4/10
Range 192m (288m with Farshot)
Damage 3d12 (20x2)
Size Large
Clip Rounds 40
Clip Weight 800g
Clip Cost 60 Cr (120 for Match Grade)

Mounted on top of this was a electronic, recording, HUD enabled +15 holographic scope with lowlight and infrared enhancement as well as its own electronics suite and broadcast capability. Cost was never set, but assumed to dwarf the cost of the rifle. Weight 5 kg. The plus on the scope can offset range penalties, but is limited by TL.

In hindsight it does look a little gratuitious, but it was meant to represent the cutting edge elite forces anti-materiel/anti-light-vehicle rifle and scope. Engagement range of the system is easily 2km with a high degree of accuracy and enough power to shred non-bd infantry and unarmored vehicles. About the largest rifle you would want to use out of batteldress.

I hope this helps

 

[BetterThanLife]

Presumably in the TA Military Weapons of Charted Space (Promissed in TA-1) there would be a Gauss Sniper Rifle. However for typical real world sniper missions, the Gauss Rifle (especially equipped with a telescopic sight with a built in HUD equivalent) is more than accurate enough. (Normal, modern day, ranges for a Sniper to engage a target is under 400 meters.) However you run into a problem in T20 when it comes to a sniper mission. Body armor can be extremely effective against small arms. Firing anything short of an FGMP against Combat Armor is definitely unlikely to produce the one shot, one hit, one kill a Sniper would prefer. Even against Diplo, you are simply going to wound your target, and not generally kill them, even with a Gauss Rifle. (Though a 4 round burst would, with an average roll against an average human in Diplo, probably do the job.)

It isn't just accuracy that is important, but also lethality, stealth ability and size all play a role in the typical Sniper use of a weapon.

So bear that all in mind as you line up that perfect shot. Also bear in mind that bullet proof glass is, at least, vehicluar armor and likely to stop any small arms fire.

 

[Klaus]

A trained sniper would have the Sniper feat.

For a -4 penalty to hit (can be reduced to -1 if the shooter targets for extra combat rounds), if a hit is scored it is a Critical (note: not a threat, an actual Critical). Of course the target needs to be blissfully unaware of the shooter to get this.

On a Critical all armour is ignored and double or even triple damage is rolled. This will more than likely put down even combat armoured individuals in a single shot, if the conditions are right, even using just a pistol.

The forthcoming Traveller Guidebook addresses some the weapons mentioned above.

 

[tjoneslo]

I use the FSA Jackal-4 ELRGSR (see page 45). A quad barrel gauss weapon with a 6,000 m/s muzzle velocity and computerized electronic aiming system. Range 2Km. Works well against even armored targets.

 

[mike wightman]

Use a RAM launcher...

no, really. Look at its range increment - 200m.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Klaus:
A trained sniper would have the Sniper feat.

For a -4 penalty to hit (can be reduced to -1 if the shooter targets for extra combat rounds), if a hit is scored it is a Critical (note: not a threat, an actual Critical). Of course the target needs to be blissfully unaware of the shooter to get this.

On a Critical all armour is ignored and double or even triple damage is rolled. This will more than likely put down even combat armoured individuals in a single shot, if the conditions are right, even using just a pistol.

The forthcoming Traveller Guidebook addresses some the weapons mentioned above.

Ooops I forgot about the sniper feat.

You are correct this would negate bodyarmor. However you have to catch your target, not just unaware but also, in the open. For a high value target the second is probably going to be more difficult than the first. Another point is that a person in serious armor is still going to be a bear to hit. (As AR also improves Armor Class making you a more difficult target to start with.) Further is continous aiming stopped when a bodyguard inadvertently gets between you and the target temporarily blocking line of sight? (IMTU the answer is yes.) But overall a good point and definitely needs some looking at from that angle.

 

[archhealer]

For when the sniper feat isn't available/won't work, there is of course called shots and/or armor piercing rounds, which we do have the stats for.

The weaposn models and modifications suggested here will, indeed, prove most helpful.

As for the suggestion of a RAM launcher as a sniper weapon, I must say... I like your style!

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Use a RAM launcher...

no, really. Look at its range increment - 200m.

Yeah Sig. However a Sniper is supposed to be a precision instrument, a Grenade is a bit messy and has potential for serious collateral damage. If a Grenade will do the job why not just designate the target for Artillery or Ortillery? (Alot safer for your spotter/sniper.) In fact in many instances US Snipers are used to do that, designate targets for other assets. Simply mark the target and let a Shipboard missile or laser do the work. (To mark a target doesn't even require active emmissions, though distance with a rangefinder coupled with bearing and knowledge of your exact location is essential, the rangefinder could be passive.)

 

[mike wightman]

In the real world or in the integrated combined arms military of Traveller?

Ok, in the TU such cooperation would make the sniper much more likely to be a smart target designator.
But a HEAP round doesn't do that much collateral damage

Perhaps a 40mm kinetic round for the RAM launcher should be developed...

hmm, how small can you make a SCRAMjet?

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

There was an idea for "smart" projectiles in AW&ST a while back. The bullet or shell is a double cone with the connection being a ball-and-socket joint that is adjusted by tiny pistons, guidence and control is in the wider cone while the thinner and pointy cone has the warhead payload. By adjusting the position of the forward cone, the projectile becomes a lifting body and can adjust its trajectory in-flight. Initial testing was based around a model that would allow an Abrams cannon shell to reach orbit.

Now with that concept in mind, I don't find it too far beyond the range of possibility to have a TL 12 gauss sniper rifle that would shoot a laser guided "smart" bullet at its target. The only catch is that the bullets would be very expensive and probably only useful to snipers.

Damn, I wish I wasn't at work. I could find a link to the article. Stoopid security....

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by Archhealer:
... but has loads of sighting gear attatched and allows them to not only see but hit a fly 300 yards away.

Keep in mind that in real terms, 300 yards isn't that far. In WW1, a soldier with a 'basic' level of expertise could load a rifle with five rounds and hit a target at 300 yards with all five, while prone, and in under thirty seconds. That's with simple sights [none of this 'red dot' business], a twelve inch target, and a standard-issue rifle.

And here's what I found in Wikipedia about the current record at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper:

The longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill was made by Master Corporal Arron Perry of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan during combat in 2003. Using a .50-caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle, Perry shot and killed an opposing combatant soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres(1.5 miles).

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Archhealer:
... but has loads of sighting gear attatched and allows them to not only see but hit a fly 300 yards away.

Keep in mind that in real terms, 300 yards isn't that far. In WW1, a soldier with a 'basic' level of expertise could load a rifle with five rounds and hit a target at 300 yards with all five, while prone, and in under thirty seconds. That's with simple sights [none of this 'red dot' business], a twelve inch target, and a standard-issue rifle.

And here's what I found in Wikipedia about the current record at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper:

The longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill was made by Master Corporal Arron Perry of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan during combat in 2003. Using a .50-caliber (12.7 mm) McMillan TAC-50 rifle, Perry shot and killed an opposing combatant soldier from a distance of 2,430 metres(1.5 miles). </font>[/QUOTE]You are correct that 300 yards isn't all that far. You will also find that there are those rare occasions like in the movies where the shot is at 1000+ yards. However in most actual combat situations the actual shot is in the 300 yard range. And Snipers spend hours to days to get into that position.

An 800+ yard shot with a good sniper Rifle against a Stationary Paper target with a well skilled operator is likely to have a group the size of a dinner plate. (On a good day.) Because of winds at your end, at the target and in between, and other factors that is about as accurate as it gets. At that range one shot, one hit, one kill is down to as much luck as it is skill. At ranges well in excess of 1000 yards, or 2300 yards, it is more luck than skill. Though, in all fairness it would take quite a bit of skill to even give lady luck a chance.

 

[parmasson]

What about an x-ray laser rifle? Do they exist in T20?
Something with a grav stabilizer and a simple IR/optical zoom sight?

 

[Valarian]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Use a RAM launcher...
no, really. Look at its range increment - 200m.

So ... how do you go about minimising collateral damage using a RAM launcher?

 

[archhealer]

Originally posted by Valarian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Use a RAM launcher...
no, really. Look at its range increment - 200m.

So ... how do you go about minimising collateral damage using a RAM launcher? </font>[/QUOTE]Well.. you could always find out when a bunch of upper-level nobles or whoever will be together, and hunt down contracts to kill all of them. Then you'd save money on ammo, and if they're all targets, you don't need to worry so much about collateral damage.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Valarian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Use a RAM launcher...
no, really. Look at its range increment - 200m.

So ... how do you go about minimising collateral damage using a RAM launcher? </font>[/QUOTE]Make sure the target is alone and someplace where fragments won't do lots of damage, like out in a field, or a desert.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Archhealer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Valarian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Use a RAM launcher...
no, really. Look at its range increment - 200m.

So ... how do you go about minimising collateral damage using a RAM launcher? </font>[/QUOTE]Well.. you could always find out when a bunch of upper-level nobles or whoever will be together, and hunt down contracts to kill all of them. Then you'd save money on ammo, and if they're all targets, you don't need to worry so much about collateral damage. </font>[/QUOTE]But in that case you might as well use Artillery, Ortillery, or a big rock.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I think the concept of masterwork weapons and ammo is one that often gets overlooked in T20. Allowing multiple bonuses for multiple applications of masterwork (+1 for each time you double the cost) is a great way to simulate the magic bonuses weapons receive in fantasy games. So if the PC is willing to pay the cost, they can get a super-duper sniper rifle with a better chance of hitting and killing at long ranges.

The weapon posted by veltyen is a good example.

The upcoming Traveller Handbook does have a gauss sniper rifle that has range increments of more than 200 meters, but the cost is 5 figures. There also are antitank rifles and light assault guns which are similiar to the .50 caliber sniper rifles of today.