So, you've failed your survival roll...

[robject]

Originally posted by Elliot:


I still say that a hybrid random/points CG system is the best - that way you get a character the player wants and one that has some forethought in creation. It beats the level one D&D syndrome (which is why a common fudge in 1st ed AD&D, at least in my neck of the woods, was to roll 1d4 to get your starting level).

It really does seem to help to allow the player to pick a specific direction for the character. A career, while limiting one's scope somewhat, still leaves a vast arena of choices. Picking a major skill or life pursuit or hobby narrows things down nicely, insures the character will have some level of expertise in something, and give the player some measure of control over the character's direction.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Elliot:


I still say that a hybrid random/points CG system is the best - that way you get a character the player wants and one that has some forethought in creation. It beats the level one D&D syndrome (which is why a common fudge in 1st ed AD&D, at least in my neck of the woods, was to roll 1d4 to get your starting level).

It really does seem to help to allow the player to pick a specific direction for the character. A career, while limiting one's scope somewhat, still leaves a vast arena of choices. Picking a major skill or life pursuit or hobby narrows things down nicely, insures the character will have some level of expertise in something, and give the player some measure of control over the character's direction.

 

[jchurchill]

"The characters in stories and TV shows are not randomly generated by their authors before they write them."

No. But considering some of the dull characters inflicted upon us sometimes in fiction lately perhaps a little randomness would be good. A little, not a lot.

"They are designed with a background in mind, that is followed in the book. After all, Ahab didn't randomly die in a whaling accident before Moby Dick did he?"

Point taken. However an RP game is fiction by committee --- the ref and the players create the story and no one --other than a complete control ref -- knows exactly how it will turn out. The later rule that failed survival roll = dischrge from that career made sense. Of course we found in playing that the risk of injury or death in creating the character could create suspense and a friend of mine had great style in making a mini-adventure when a character was wounded.

"Why should you be unable to play the guy that's survived all the hardships straight away, instead of having to go through a zillion dice rolls to see if he does?"

This is also a good point and the old pure CT system did not always produce good results in this respect. I think the survival roll was originally there to push the character out of the nest rather than let someone create 54 year old admirals and generals all the time. Useful to stimulate play but also frustrating.

Also, CT and MT players do get the opportunity to have general influence over skills as one profession tended to acquire certain skills over others.

 

[jchurchill]

"The characters in stories and TV shows are not randomly generated by their authors before they write them."

No. But considering some of the dull characters inflicted upon us sometimes in fiction lately perhaps a little randomness would be good. A little, not a lot.

"They are designed with a background in mind, that is followed in the book. After all, Ahab didn't randomly die in a whaling accident before Moby Dick did he?"

Point taken. However an RP game is fiction by committee --- the ref and the players create the story and no one --other than a complete control ref -- knows exactly how it will turn out. The later rule that failed survival roll = dischrge from that career made sense. Of course we found in playing that the risk of injury or death in creating the character could create suspense and a friend of mine had great style in making a mini-adventure when a character was wounded.

"Why should you be unable to play the guy that's survived all the hardships straight away, instead of having to go through a zillion dice rolls to see if he does?"

This is also a good point and the old pure CT system did not always produce good results in this respect. I think the survival roll was originally there to push the character out of the nest rather than let someone create 54 year old admirals and generals all the time. Useful to stimulate play but also frustrating.

Also, CT and MT players do get the opportunity to have general influence over skills as one profession tended to acquire certain skills over others.

 

[RobertFisher]

I tend to be more of a gamist than narratavist these days, so arguments based on literature don't hold much weight with me anymore.

But as I said, I've never really thought one method of chargen was superior to any other. I use whichever one fits my mood, my players' moods, & the current campaign.

FWIW, back when I first played CT in the 1980s, we always used the "advanced" chargen from the latter books. I would usually come up with something I wanted for my char. "I want to be a pilot." or "I want to be a doctor." I almost always ended up with at least a few skill levels in that one skill I wanted.

Anyway--to try to get back on topic--what do you think could be some of the outcomes of a failed survival roll beyond death, injury, & immediate mustering out?

I like the T5 permanent-stat-damage that someone mentioned. The ref had one of my old PCs that failed a survival roll lose a hand.

Maybe their could be a small chance that a failed survival roll did not end up being immediate mustering out.

 

[RobertFisher]

I tend to be more of a gamist than narratavist these days, so arguments based on literature don't hold much weight with me anymore.

But as I said, I've never really thought one method of chargen was superior to any other. I use whichever one fits my mood, my players' moods, & the current campaign.

FWIW, back when I first played CT in the 1980s, we always used the "advanced" chargen from the latter books. I would usually come up with something I wanted for my char. "I want to be a pilot." or "I want to be a doctor." I almost always ended up with at least a few skill levels in that one skill I wanted.

Anyway--to try to get back on topic--what do you think could be some of the outcomes of a failed survival roll beyond death, injury, & immediate mustering out?

I like the T5 permanent-stat-damage that someone mentioned. The ref had one of my old PCs that failed a survival roll lose a hand.

Maybe their could be a small chance that a failed survival roll did not end up being immediate mustering out.

 

[jchurchill]

Anyway--to try to get back on topic--what do you think could be some of the outcomes of a failed survival roll beyond death, injury, & immediate mustering out?
================================================
A bungled assignment or mission that did not result in absolute disgrace but perhaps a reduction in rank or privilege?

 

[jchurchill]

Anyway--to try to get back on topic--what do you think could be some of the outcomes of a failed survival roll beyond death, injury, & immediate mustering out?
================================================
A bungled assignment or mission that did not result in absolute disgrace but perhaps a reduction in rank or privilege?

 

[Malenfant]

on a failed survival roll, you could just lose a rank? (ie get demoted)

 

[Malenfant]

on a failed survival roll, you could just lose a rank? (ie get demoted)

 

[jchurchill]

I finally agree with you on something Malefant. Scary.

 

[jchurchill]

I finally agree with you on something Malefant. Scary.

 

[JWMcFarlin]

What I figured about CT character generation was this:

You rolled your dice. You had six stats. You could either choose a career that made sense for the stats or try and force the issue. Each term meant a chance for death. If you had a character that you liked, it was up to you to decide if you wanted to push your luck. If you had a character you didn't like, it was typical to push your luck.

The characters who lived through character generation had a chance of dying. This, right off the bat, seemed to make them slightly more worthwhile.

Most good Traveller characters are four and five term characters, aged 34 to 40. This is an interesting aspect to CT that it gives a little boost to older folks, instead of concentrating on sexy, youthful prodigies.

One of the better aspects of character generation was figuring out what the random rolls meant--rather than making up your story, you were presented with a list of facts about your character and it was up to you to make those fit, which is a sort of reversal of getting what you want. Obviously, it doesn't appeal to those who want what they want, when they want it.

But I'll agree, most games succeed best when the Referee injects some choice into the matter. For example, when the character generation is over, the Referee offers a trade of one skill level to the players to opt for any skill offered in the various tables offered by their careers, and then when that is done, if there are any skills required by the adventure or campaign, those are distributed to the characters.

Just because the character generation system isn't what you want, doesn't necessitate the writing and publishing of a whole new book. Just make it happen according to your desires.

John

 

[JWMcFarlin]

What I figured about CT character generation was this:

You rolled your dice. You had six stats. You could either choose a career that made sense for the stats or try and force the issue. Each term meant a chance for death. If you had a character that you liked, it was up to you to decide if you wanted to push your luck. If you had a character you didn't like, it was typical to push your luck.

The characters who lived through character generation had a chance of dying. This, right off the bat, seemed to make them slightly more worthwhile.

Most good Traveller characters are four and five term characters, aged 34 to 40. This is an interesting aspect to CT that it gives a little boost to older folks, instead of concentrating on sexy, youthful prodigies.

One of the better aspects of character generation was figuring out what the random rolls meant--rather than making up your story, you were presented with a list of facts about your character and it was up to you to make those fit, which is a sort of reversal of getting what you want. Obviously, it doesn't appeal to those who want what they want, when they want it.

But I'll agree, most games succeed best when the Referee injects some choice into the matter. For example, when the character generation is over, the Referee offers a trade of one skill level to the players to opt for any skill offered in the various tables offered by their careers, and then when that is done, if there are any skills required by the adventure or campaign, those are distributed to the characters.

Just because the character generation system isn't what you want, doesn't necessitate the writing and publishing of a whole new book. Just make it happen according to your desires.

John

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

Hey guys dosen't anyone just use the "medical discharge" optinal rule (book 1 pg 10)

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

Hey guys dosen't anyone just use the "medical discharge" optinal rule (book 1 pg 10)

 

[aramis]

I've almost always used that, 313... especially since, in all later editions (MT, TNE, T4, T20), the medical discharge is the default, and death is the GM option.

 

[aramis]

I've almost always used that, 313... especially since, in all later editions (MT, TNE, T4, T20), the medical discharge is the default, and death is the GM option.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

One option for allowing a little choice is to have the player prioritize their stats. After they roll, sort the rolls highest to lowest, then apply to the prioritized stats. If you get a standard distribution (why I prefer xd6 to 1d20), they will get a high stat or two, and a low stat or two, but they get them where they can work with it.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

One option for allowing a little choice is to have the player prioritize their stats. After they roll, sort the rolls highest to lowest, then apply to the prioritized stats. If you get a standard distribution (why I prefer xd6 to 1d20), they will get a high stat or two, and a low stat or two, but they get them where they can work with it.