Spinward Marches Campaign

[Sorel]

Greetings COTI,

I posted awhile back looking for noob advice and it was much appreciated. I've got my guys doing runs in the Spinward Marches and I came across the "spinward marches campaign" on ebay. This copy seems to have a hefty reserve on it and I was wondering what opinions people had on it.

Second, a while back someone linked to vehicle rules that were done up by a member of the community. The link was dead and I was wondering if anyone had the pdf of the rules in question.

Thanks

 

[Sorel]

Greetings COTI,

I posted awhile back looking for noob advice and it was much appreciated. I've got my guys doing runs in the Spinward Marches and I came across the "spinward marches campaign" on ebay. This copy seems to have a hefty reserve on it and I was wondering what opinions people had on it.

Second, a while back someone linked to vehicle rules that were done up by a member of the community. The link was dead and I was wondering if anyone had the pdf of the rules in question.

Thanks

 

[mike wightman]

SMC is interesting for its history of the fifth frontier war section.

It is broken in a couple of ways though:

some of the planetary data is wrong

a few of the ship designs are wrong or don't match with their descriptions

the character generation charts suffer from cut and paste errors.

Considering the hefty price it goes for I could only recommend it for completists, since nearly everything else in it is available in other, cheaper, books.

 

[mike wightman]

SMC is interesting for its history of the fifth frontier war section.

It is broken in a couple of ways though:

some of the planetary data is wrong

a few of the ship designs are wrong or don't match with their descriptions

the character generation charts suffer from cut and paste errors.

Considering the hefty price it goes for I could only recommend it for completists, since nearly everything else in it is available in other, cheaper, books.

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by Sorel:
a while back someone linked to vehicle rules that were done up by a member of the community. The link was dead and I was wondering if anyone had the pdf of the rules in question

Provide a link to the thread/rules in question so we know which ones... I've downloaded so much stuff it's hard to tell

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by Sorel:
a while back someone linked to vehicle rules that were done up by a member of the community. The link was dead and I was wondering if anyone had the pdf of the rules in question

Provide a link to the thread/rules in question so we know which ones... I've downloaded so much stuff it's hard to tell

 

[far-trader]

To Sigg's list I'd also add that the included adventure can't be run cold. I found it confusing in it's layout and that it didn't make sense to me in a number of ways. I rewrote a large part of the details for my own use so it made sense to me. YMMV.

 

[far-trader]

To Sigg's list I'd also add that the included adventure can't be run cold. I found it confusing in it's layout and that it didn't make sense to me in a number of ways. I rewrote a large part of the details for my own use so it made sense to me. YMMV.

 

[Sorel]

[/QUOTE]Provide a link to the thread/rules in question so we know which ones... I've downloaded so much stuff it's hard to tell [/QUOTE]

I am shamed.

A search effort turned up this recent rehosting of Piper's rules.

http://hosted.thefrayededge.net/glen/Vehicles.pdf

Thanks for the opinions guys, I will not be pursuing that angle on the campaign, then.

 

[Sorel]

[/QUOTE]Provide a link to the thread/rules in question so we know which ones... I've downloaded so much stuff it's hard to tell [/QUOTE]

I am shamed.

A search effort turned up this recent rehosting of Piper's rules.

http://hosted.thefrayededge.net/glen/Vehicles.pdf

Thanks for the opinions guys, I will not be pursuing that angle on the campaign, then.

 

[Whipsnade]

Sorel,

For the longest time The Spinward Marches Campaign was my favorite Traveller product. However, I would not pay the prices routinely quoted for it on eBay.

There were and are many problems with the book, as Sigg and Dan point out, but the product needs to be put in context. It must be judged against other RPG products from the early 80s and it needs to be remembered for what it was to Traveller.

SMC was the game's first sector sourcebook. We woldn't see anything else remotely like it until DGP produced Flaming Eye and Knightfall for MT and GDW produced Regency Sourcebook for TNE. Unlike S:3 and S:10, SMC presented much more than subsector maps and UWP lists. We got our first look at the history of an Imperial sector, our first look at an Imperial navy squadron, our first look at a huscarle regiment, our first look at a large shipping line, and much, much more.

SMC's problems include:

UWPs - They don't match S:3 in some cases. We know that some UWPs were fixed and some, like Regina's TL, were ret-cons. Others were simply mistake. The trouble is we don't know precisely which ones were fixes and which ones were mistakes!

Ship designs - The design of the battle riders and battle tender for the 214th are broken. So is the design of Al Morai's 5,000dTon transport. Thus we get our first look at two very important organizations but the technical details were wrong!

The Campaign - Like many adventures of the period, the campaign is "bare bones" and requires a lot of work from the GM. There was also a mistake in the paste up of the adventure in the book's proofs. Sections of the adventure are presented out of order in the product. To try and explain this; it wasn't that page 6 came before page 5, rather the text on page 5 should have been on page 6!

What we get in SMC:

Maps - Not just current day maps of the sector, but historical maps. There are maps showing the position of the various fleets every 180 days during the Fifth Frontier Wars. There are maps showing the "before & after" positions for each of the previous four Frontier Wars. There are maps showing the Imperial settlement of the Marches and the changes in the Imperial border.

The 214th - Our first and, so far, only look detailed look at an Imperial Navy squadron. Everything from the fighters of the screen to the escorts to the riders to the tender.

Al Morai - Our first and, so far, only look at a large merchant, trading, and transport corporation. We learn about stock, pay scales, routes, busines practices, and the like.

The 4518th - Our first look until GT:GF decades later at an Imperial regiment. Each battalion is listed with TO&Es provided down to the individual trooper. The regiment's history is presented too showing how it's organization changed over the centuries as the Imperium's needs changed.

COTI chargen - A repeat of the various chargens previously only available in S:4. When you remember this was pre-Internet you'll see why this is so important. Thanks to SMC I didn't need to own S:4 and didn't have a copy until I bought the reprints!

World "thumbnails" - Unlike S:3 which had provided little information beyond UWPs, SMC provided thumbnail descriptions of a few worlds in each subsector. Further tidbits about various worlds can be found in other sections too. Unlike GT:BtC which provided text for every world in the Marches, SMC wisely provided suggestions about only a few.

I hope all this helps you. As much as I loved SMC, I still wouldn't pay the prices found at eBay.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Sorel,

For the longest time The Spinward Marches Campaign was my favorite Traveller product. However, I would not pay the prices routinely quoted for it on eBay.

There were and are many problems with the book, as Sigg and Dan point out, but the product needs to be put in context. It must be judged against other RPG products from the early 80s and it needs to be remembered for what it was to Traveller.

SMC was the game's first sector sourcebook. We woldn't see anything else remotely like it until DGP produced Flaming Eye and Knightfall for MT and GDW produced Regency Sourcebook for TNE. Unlike S:3 and S:10, SMC presented much more than subsector maps and UWP lists. We got our first look at the history of an Imperial sector, our first look at an Imperial navy squadron, our first look at a huscarle regiment, our first look at a large shipping line, and much, much more.

SMC's problems include:

UWPs - They don't match S:3 in some cases. We know that some UWPs were fixed and some, like Regina's TL, were ret-cons. Others were simply mistake. The trouble is we don't know precisely which ones were fixes and which ones were mistakes!

Ship designs - The design of the battle riders and battle tender for the 214th are broken. So is the design of Al Morai's 5,000dTon transport. Thus we get our first look at two very important organizations but the technical details were wrong!

The Campaign - Like many adventures of the period, the campaign is "bare bones" and requires a lot of work from the GM. There was also a mistake in the paste up of the adventure in the book's proofs. Sections of the adventure are presented out of order in the product. To try and explain this; it wasn't that page 6 came before page 5, rather the text on page 5 should have been on page 6!

What we get in SMC:

Maps - Not just current day maps of the sector, but historical maps. There are maps showing the position of the various fleets every 180 days during the Fifth Frontier Wars. There are maps showing the "before & after" positions for each of the previous four Frontier Wars. There are maps showing the Imperial settlement of the Marches and the changes in the Imperial border.

The 214th - Our first and, so far, only look detailed look at an Imperial Navy squadron. Everything from the fighters of the screen to the escorts to the riders to the tender.

Al Morai - Our first and, so far, only look at a large merchant, trading, and transport corporation. We learn about stock, pay scales, routes, busines practices, and the like.

The 4518th - Our first look until GT:GF decades later at an Imperial regiment. Each battalion is listed with TO&Es provided down to the individual trooper. The regiment's history is presented too showing how it's organization changed over the centuries as the Imperium's needs changed.

COTI chargen - A repeat of the various chargens previously only available in S:4. When you remember this was pre-Internet you'll see why this is so important. Thanks to SMC I didn't need to own S:4 and didn't have a copy until I bought the reprints!

World "thumbnails" - Unlike S:3 which had provided little information beyond UWPs, SMC provided thumbnail descriptions of a few worlds in each subsector. Further tidbits about various worlds can be found in other sections too. Unlike GT:BtC which provided text for every world in the Marches, SMC wisely provided suggestions about only a few.

I hope all this helps you. As much as I loved SMC, I still wouldn't pay the prices found at eBay.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[far-trader]

An excellent review Bill. And I have to agree I loved it in the day, and still reference it as well as enjoy it for the information. As he says it was a great book in its day. It was probably my single favorite Traveller product until MT's SOM1 came out.

I also agree for most people it is probably not worth the prices it sometimes goes for, but it is a far better buy even at those inflated prices than the Atlas of the Imperium

 

[far-trader]

An excellent review Bill. And I have to agree I loved it in the day, and still reference it as well as enjoy it for the information. As he says it was a great book in its day. It was probably my single favorite Traveller product until MT's SOM1 came out.

I also agree for most people it is probably not worth the prices it sometimes goes for, but it is a far better buy even at those inflated prices than the Atlas of the Imperium

 

[aramis]

I have to point out a few bits that Bill mistakenly asserted...

4518th: the next detail of a regiment is for Striker II (TNE) and predates GT. Also, the Aces and Eights received a good detail-out in JTAS. At least one third party striker supplement provided a full regiment at striker detail. Loren's JTAS article provides a (somewhat problematic) look at the Imperial Marines.

214th: Not the only look at a naval squadron. FSOTSI (MT) provides a clear standard, as do other parts of MT. Neither is to the specific squadron level, however, being TO&Es in general, not in specific.

 

[aramis]

I have to point out a few bits that Bill mistakenly asserted...

4518th: the next detail of a regiment is for Striker II (TNE) and predates GT. Also, the Aces and Eights received a good detail-out in JTAS. At least one third party striker supplement provided a full regiment at striker detail. Loren's JTAS article provides a (somewhat problematic) look at the Imperial Marines.

214th: Not the only look at a naval squadron. FSOTSI (MT) provides a clear standard, as do other parts of MT. Neither is to the specific squadron level, however, being TO&Es in general, not in specific.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Aramis:
I have to point out a few bits that Bill mistakenly asserted...

Aramis,

I have a head like a sieve...

Also, the Aces and Eights received a good detail-out in JTAS.

While I'd forgotten about Striker II (Here I am with a copy with arm's reach! D'oh!), I was unaware of a TO&E for the late 1188th. All I knew about the Aces & Eights regiment was the relative pittance from the JTAS adventure the same name; destroyed by local allies in a NBC attack, hidden payroll, ex-officer leading resistence movement, etc.

Could you spare some details?

Loren's JTAS article provides a (somewhat problematic) look at the Imperial Marines.

Problematic? That's one way of putting it...

Not the only look at a naval squadron. FSOTSI (MT) provides a clear standard...

FSotSI is so broken though. Designs, structures, all of it. FSotSI even contradicts the Rebellion Sourcebook in places.

... as do other parts of MT. Neither is to the specific squadron level, however, being TO&Es in general, not in specific.

It was the specfics I was driving at. Of course I should have mentioned 'specifics'!

FSotSI, Rebellion Sourcebook, and those few other MT bits do talk generally about fleet composition and squadron types, but there is little beyond that. FSotSI lists several escort types but never tells us what types of capital ships they escort or what sort of escort missions they undertake.

SMC OTOH gives us the 214th with all it's splendor and warts. We know how many fighters are supposed to be available. Ditto the number of P.F. Sloans. Ditto couriers. The individual designs may be broken but we get to see how all the pieces fit together.


Have fun,
Bill

P.S. That 3rd party Striker stuff, was it a set of soft-cover, LLB-sized, pamphlets full of designs and primitive (even by the standards of the time) line art?

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Aramis:
I have to point out a few bits that Bill mistakenly asserted...

Aramis,

I have a head like a sieve...

Also, the Aces and Eights received a good detail-out in JTAS.

While I'd forgotten about Striker II (Here I am with a copy with arm's reach! D'oh!), I was unaware of a TO&E for the late 1188th. All I knew about the Aces & Eights regiment was the relative pittance from the JTAS adventure the same name; destroyed by local allies in a NBC attack, hidden payroll, ex-officer leading resistence movement, etc.

Could you spare some details?

Loren's JTAS article provides a (somewhat problematic) look at the Imperial Marines.

Problematic? That's one way of putting it...

Not the only look at a naval squadron. FSOTSI (MT) provides a clear standard...

FSotSI is so broken though. Designs, structures, all of it. FSotSI even contradicts the Rebellion Sourcebook in places.

... as do other parts of MT. Neither is to the specific squadron level, however, being TO&Es in general, not in specific.

It was the specfics I was driving at. Of course I should have mentioned 'specifics'!

FSotSI, Rebellion Sourcebook, and those few other MT bits do talk generally about fleet composition and squadron types, but there is little beyond that. FSotSI lists several escort types but never tells us what types of capital ships they escort or what sort of escort missions they undertake.

SMC OTOH gives us the 214th with all it's splendor and warts. We know how many fighters are supposed to be available. Ditto the number of P.F. Sloans. Ditto couriers. The individual designs may be broken but we get to see how all the pieces fit together.


Have fun,
Bill

P.S. That 3rd party Striker stuff, was it a set of soft-cover, LLB-sized, pamphlets full of designs and primitive (even by the standards of the time) line art?

 

[aramis]

Agreed, Bill.. There is somewhere a unit org chart for a regiment; I'm in the middle of a move, and the Trav stuff is already at the new place (save for HG and TTB).

 

[aramis]

Agreed, Bill.. There is somewhere a unit org chart for a regiment; I'm in the middle of a move, and the Trav stuff is already at the new place (save for HG and TTB).