Spinward Marches Data

[Hal]

Hello Folks,
Am I dreaming, or did someone ever put out an xls file titled "Spinward Marches Data that had multiple dates on it, as well as multiple game systems for which the data was intended?

Tonight, I started to look more closely at the data, and noted changes from the original source material from the classic SUPPLEMENT 3: Spinward Marches.

I was just wondering at the why of the changes. Also, I noted that there were dates such as 1065 by itself, and then T5 1065.

I would have thought that the data for 1105 tab would have been the classic data, but it appears not to be.

Does anyone have the low down on why the changes were made?

Here is my reason for asking...

It is my intent to try to build "Hal's Traveller Universe" based on the original world data from classic Traveller, but updated by use of GURPS SPACE for use with GURPS 4th edition. World diameters will be changed to retain certain atmosphere types, and stars will be generated randomly for that hex to better reflect the fact that "Garden" worlds should have star types other than M class worlds.

I would normally consider using the material in THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN, but the fact that it breaks the rules of either of SCOUTS for world generation and/or MegaTraveller's world generation rules, annoys the hell out of me.

In any event, I'm just trying to make sense of the changes I see. Case in point? Reno is listed as:

C4207B9-A: Spreadsheet
C1227B9-A: Supplement 3

As can be seen above, the world diameter changed as did the hydrographics. Now I know that there was supposed to be some vetting going on to change things - which is why I'm looking to see what it is that is "official" versus what is canon.

 

[aramis]

Hello Folks,
Am I dreaming, or did someone ever put out an xls file titled "Spinward Marches Data that had multiple dates on it, as well as multiple game systems for which the data was intended?

Tonight, I started to look more closely at the data, and noted changes from the original source material from the classic SUPPLEMENT 3: Spinward Marches.

I was just wondering at the why of the changes. Also, I noted that there were dates such as 1065 by itself, and then T5 1065.

I would have thought that the data for 1105 tab would have been the classic data, but it appears not to be.

Does anyone have the low down on why the changes were made?

Here is my reason for asking...

It is my intent to try to build "Hal's Traveller Universe" based on the original world data from classic Traveller, but updated by use of GURPS SPACE for use with GURPS 4th edition. World diameters will be changed to retain certain atmosphere types, and stars will be generated randomly for that hex to better reflect the fact that "Garden" worlds should have star types other than M class worlds.

I would normally consider using the material in THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN, but the fact that it breaks the rules of either of SCOUTS for world generation and/or MegaTraveller's world generation rules, annoys the hell out of me.

In any event, I'm just trying to make sense of the changes I see. Case in point? Reno is listed as:

C4207B9-A: Spreadsheet
C1227B9-A: Supplement 3

As can be seen above, the world diameter changed as did the hydrographics. Now I know that there was supposed to be some vetting going on to change things - which is why I'm looking to see what it is that is "official" versus what is canon.

Yes, there have been some official changes to the Marches data for the 1100-1107 ("classic") era. They have been promulgated with T5.

 

[Hal]

Yes, there have been some official changes to the Marches data for the 1100-1107 ("classic") era. They have been promulgated with T5.

Hi Aramis,
Any idea of when the "new" Spinward Marches data will be publically available? I see that the data for the stars isn't the same as it was for the Spinward Marches Campaign (which I deem to be a good thing). The one thing I don't really like is the idea that Standard Atmospheres can arise on worlds with an M class Star. For worlds with Atmosphere 6 or 7, I intend (for my Traveller Universe) to change the star types to K or G for the most part. Where possible, I will probably go with K main sequence where the world is listed as having an M class star - otherwise, I'll likely leave the G stars alone without adding too many more.

Thanks for the update.

Hal

 

[aramis]

Hi Aramis,
Any idea of when the "new" Spinward Marches data will be publically available?

Sorry, I don't know.

I know about it due to the T5 playtest process.

 

[rancke]

I would normally consider using the material in THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN, but the fact that it breaks the rules of either of SCOUTS for world generation and/or MegaTraveller's world generation rules, annoys the hell out of me.

Does it in fact break the rules? ISTR someone claiming that there is one last rule that is often ignored: "If something doesn't fit, change it" or words to that effect. If that is the case, the real problem is GDW and DGP publishing raw (not RAW ) unvetted data.

On the other hand, if they do break the rules then the rules are themselves broken and hence deserves to be broken, so why be upset about that?

Now I know that there was supposed to be some vetting going on to change things - which is why I'm looking to see what it is that is "official" versus what is canon.

'Canonical' and 'official' is the same thing in this context.


Hans

 

[Hal]

Hans,
Look more closely at the rules in SCOUTS (or MT's world generation rules) and do what it tells you to do. When using worlds already pre-generated (which was all of the Spinward Marches), it specified that worlds with populations 8+ or with atmosphere 4-9, should add +4 to the primary star type and to the primary size roll. On average, the bulk of such worlds should have been a 7+4, or 11. Page 28 of Scouts would have made the bulk of the habitable worlds with population 8+ or atmospheres 4-9, as being F and VI type stars. Only on rolls of 2 or 3 would the primary star have been an M star. Rolls of 5+ would have resulted in V class stars on 2d6.

The data given in THE SPINWARD MARCHES campaign does not reflect the rules as written at that time.

So - my intent, was to start off with the basic UPP and star name, keep as much from the CT material as I could, and then modify the worlds so that they could have the atmosphere and hydrographic values as given - without really changing any more than I had to.

Now, I find that the data in the playtest stuff indicates that things are being changed (much in the way I would have wanted it to be changed, but with some minor issues where I didn't like it, but heck, can't please everyone all the time anyhow!).

In the end - it will be Hal's Traveller Universe as best as I can make it. Details I want my players to know will go on that web page (if I can ever get back into HTML again!). Other stuff such as more ship designs, will go on that page sooner or later. I suspect too, that I will start gearing towards creating robots for use in my Traveller Universe as well. Other than that - time will tell.

Hal

 

[rancke]

Hans,
Look more closely at the rules in SCOUTS (or MT's world generation rules) and do what it tells you to do. When using worlds already pre-generated (which was all of the Spinward Marches), it specified that worlds with populations 8+ or with atmosphere 4-9, should add +4 to the primary star type and to the primary size roll. On average, the bulk of such worlds should have been a 7+4, or 11. Page 28 of Scouts would have made the bulk of the habitable worlds with population 8+ or atmospheres 4-9, as being F and VI type stars. Only on rolls of 2 or 3 would the primary star have been an M star. Rolls of 5+ would have resulted in V class stars on 2d6.

The data given in THE SPINWARD MARCHES campaign does not reflect the rules as written at that time.

So they had the tools to do the thing right (or at least more right) from the first go and failed to avail themselves of them. Yes, that is annoying.


Hans

 

[Hal]

Now you know why I've been of a mind to use some other set of rules to generate the star system information.

I liked FIRST IN when it came to generating star systems - but GURPS SPACE for 4th edition GURPS seems to be a better product than what is produced by GURPS TRAVELLER FIRST IN. Truth be told, the rules for generating planetary locations is reminiscent of the rules from TRAVELLER 2300 AD where there wasn't a "Bode Constant" per se, but a relatively random factor of x2'ish type of thing. In other words, not always less than x2, and not always greater than x2.

In any event, should the new data for the Spinward Marches for T5 see the light of day, it will be better than the older "updated" information as presented in THE SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN (that was subsequently maintained in GURPS TRAVELLER BEHIND THE CLAW). Since I don't know whether MONGOOSE TRAVELLER's version of the Spinward Marches is any different than from the SPINWARD MARCHES CAMPAIGN, I can't say anything about that product. I've been tempted to use it in the hopes it had "settlement dates" for the various worlds in the Spinward Marches - but I figured that if it were based on the flawed original data, then why waste the money? If I do it myself, then I can't really complain all too much.

The only other thing I will need to keep track of for my campaign universe, are those worlds with Hydrographics levels of 0 thru 4. GURPS TRAVELLER STARPORTS had what was probably a "throwaway comment" regarding "restricted wilderness refueling" that I rather like and intend to implement in my campaigns. Worlds where water is a precious commodity will likely create laws to restrict wilderness refueling - the question becomes one of "how much".