Star Wars meets Traveller...

[far-trader]

Hah, squeezing 4EP into a small craft is not your biggest problem making Traveller mimic StarWars(tm)

Making the jump to lightspeed is. SW and Trav have two totally different concepts for FTL as has been pointed out.

Never mind the glaring self inconsistancy of SW either (tie fighters are too small to be that far out but the smaller x-wing can do jumps way out to the beyond, and from epII apparently solar sails are not only capable of the jump to light speed but they do it faster than a coventional craft)

So you'll need to make all kinds of house rules to create your SW vision using Traveller rules.

I could offer suggestions but I'm loathe to enforce my own take on your creative talent. You will find a way. There is no try there is only do, or do not

 

[endersig]

Far Trader,
My creativiy would not mind having someone give it a kick-start The only house rules I could come with rediculously imbalance the game. A power plant that produces 3 times its mass in EP? Tie fighters, with their solar cells, lighten my load... but those dang X wings... and don't get me started on Deflector Shields...

 

[veltyen]

Um. Wouldn't a X-wing just have a triple (pulse laser/missile launcher/sandcaster) turret?

Just cos it has four barrels doesn't nessersarily turn it in to 4 weapons.

 

[endersig]

Meh. I'd enjoy it more if I could squeeze some more firepower into a fighter. I always had a problem with how ineffective they were in traveller (see my other posts, Like Hi-G and Jump Capable fighters)
Has anyone though of a deflector shield possiblity?

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by endersig:
Far Trader,
My creativiy would not mind having someone give it a kick-start The only house rules I could come with rediculously imbalance the game. A power plant that produces 3 times its mass in EP? Tie fighters, with their solar cells, lighten my load... but those dang X wings... and don't get me started on Deflector Shields...

Well I was going to come back with a kick start since you asked but after a look and a couple notes, um, well, you'd pretty much have to redo the entire rule set. To get the kind of performance SW craft have would totally change the dynamics of every other layer of Traveller. Like trade most obviously, the size of the Imperium as well. SW is a galaxy spanning Empire iirc, Traveller is just one small part of one spiral arm of a galaxy.

Perhaps that's what you mean by imbalances, perhaps not. My take on it puts your paltry 3 times mass EP output to shame. Try my first quick sketch that comes up something like 30EP in a 6ton drive that is a rechargeable power plant, thruster, and FLT drive in one with a maximum range of some 60 parsecs. That from a quick model of an X-wing based on my old memory of it's performance.

I'm not sure how you figure the solar panels lighten the load. They are very very very poor power convertors in real life and Traveller, unlike SW apparently.

Please do start on Deflector Shields, they are not so bad, maybe the best bit of science in SW. There was a thread or two here on plasma shielding a bit back.

DON'T get me started on the lame and liberal use of inapproriate language in SW (and I mean terms like lightyear, parsec and lightspeed)

So my advice, don't go there

It's a huge project. Have you thought of maybe an early SW galaxy, something pre-Federation or very very young Federation. That you could graft onto the Traveller mechanics much more easily.

 

[endersig]

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by endersig:
Far Trader,
My creativiy would not mind having someone give it a kick-start The only house rules I could come with rediculously imbalance the game. A power plant that produces 3 times its mass in EP? Tie fighters, with their solar cells, lighten my load... but those dang X wings... and don't get me started on Deflector Shields...

Well I was going to come back with a kick start since you asked but after a look and a couple notes, um, well, you'd pretty much have to redo the entire rule set. To get the kind of performance SW craft have would totally change the dynamics of every other layer of Traveller.

Perhaps that's what you mean by imbalances, perhaps not. My take on it puts your paltry 3 times mass EP output to shame. Try my first quick sketch that comes up something like 30EP in a 6ton drive that is a rechargeable power plant, thruster, and FLT drive in one with a maximum range of some 60 parsecs. That from a quick model of an X-wing based on my old memory of it's performance.

I'm not sure how you figure the solar panels lighten the load. They are very very very poor power convertors in real life and Traveller, unlike SW apparently.

Please do start on Deflector Shields, they are not so bad, maybe the best bit of science in SW. There was a thread or two here on plasma shielding a bit back.

DON'T get me started on the lame and liberal use of inapproriate language in SW (and I mean terms like lightyear, parsec and lightspeed)

So my advice, don't go there

It's a huge project. Have you thought of maybe an early SW galaxy, something pre-Federation or very very young Federation. That you could graft onto the Traveller mechanics much more easily. </font>[/QUOTE]Since I do not know how to start or end quotes, I will have to quote the whole thing. Bear with me.
First, I'm glad to have a responsive veteran help me out on this.
Second, the imbalances I was talking about was something along the lines of "if 6 tons can power a 25 ton fighter, we could use it on a much larger scale and have 250,000 Capital Ships powered by 60,000 tons of drive..." which isn't pretty. Also, it is funny you should mention big project and completely revamping Traveller... It is what I realized a little while ago, and so started doing just that... we shall see how it plays out. My setting was just after Order 66 so as to open up Jedi campaigns, but also to reflect the Traveller-esque anti-psionics vibe. When I'm finished, I'll get it to you somehow. Anyway, Capital ships are actually nicely covered by High Guard, but The spinal mounts make things difficult. So I'll axe'em and get some new weapons. It is high performance Small Craft that are giving me problems. I was thinking a general size reactor that works on all craft under 100 tons, like 5 tons (fusion) with 10 EP. Also, Hyperdrive is almost identical to Jump, minus the time spent in the alternate universe. So, if I can figure out the rating system ".5 past light speed" "Star Destroyers have a Hyperspace rating of 2x"... that stuff, it will make my job easier. Shields is indeed how I would start, though. I'm thinking something along the lines of general sizes again, like some of the screens, that you could angle for increased effect... treat it like armor, but with regenerative properties... I dunno. I'll try and figure it out soon. In the meantime, though, it would be helpful if someone (aka, anyone reading this forum) could work on taking the Star Wars planets, and puting them to the UWP. If we get tons of people on it, it should go faster. Keep working on that X-wing, though. Don't worry about Jump Capable yet. If nothing else, I can do what they did with the Jedi Starfighter (Jump Ring) or pull some "handwavium". Look at the size of a Hyperdrive core in Episode I! I always envision Star Wars at Tech 16-18 Ships, with Tech 11-13 equipment. HoloNet is also nice.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by endersig:
Since I do not know how to start or end quotes, I will have to quote the whole thing. Bear with me.

No problem, but it would be a good bit to learn for the board and it's not too hard. There's a primer on the features of UBB used on the forums here:

What is UBB Code?

Originally posted by endersig:

First, I'm glad to have a responsive veteran help me out on this.

I'd be glad to help you out on...

Got ya Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on this old trader but I will help you out, for a price...

You're ambitious and I'll try to help as I can but at the moment I need some sleep. Meantime were you part of any of the previous SW/Traveller discussions. I'm thinking specifically of one where that rapscallion Whipsnade weighed in. If not have a search for it. As I recall he was a bit negative but made excellent points. Or was he positive but failed to make a point?

Nah, I think it was the first. (That should get his attention though )

 

[womble]

Could we make a credible story about a lone Free Trader Beowulf that plies the stars and picks up cargo, passengers & trouble along the way.

Not without taking from Firefly.

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by soloprobe:
Ah, when you start rolling hit locations, You're playing RUNEQUEST not TRAVELLER

And there's nothing wrong with that! Although we called it Voyager to avoid confusion.

 

[Ran Targas]

From my experience, it is much easier to adapt the themes of SW to Trav than to attempt to replicate SW in the Trav universe. The technologies aren't readily compatible but the storyline is.

 

[endersig]

I realize I might be spending too much time on this X-wing problem, but it has come to represent just how incompatible SW small craft are with Traveller. Everything else works (provided you tweak the weapons, and add deflector shields), but small craft are a little powerful. Here is what I want. Screw the 3 weapons rule, this is for gearhead purposes. Is it possible to get a <50 tons small craft that has 6 agility, 4 lasers and 2 missile racks? ignore armor, bridges, and hyperdrive. Let's see if we can make an "early model" X-wing. So people, show me how close we can get so I know how much to fudge

 

[far-trader]

I'm sure you won't mind if I take your X-Wing build challenge a bit off tangent. I'd build it as a vehicle in T20...

TL17 X-wing space interceptor fighter - 12.5m length

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">+3000vl Chassis - Airframe needle, Cr12,000
Agility +2 (in atmosphere)
-600vl Cockpit - seats one, Cr1,500
-540vl Armor - rating 17, Cr7,860
-44vl Grav Thrusters - 1,100kph, -11ep Cr506,000
Agility +4 - -48ep
-20vl Antimatter Power - +100ep, Cr11,000
-1vl Antimatter Fuel - 10 years
-180vl Full Life Support - -4ep, Cr5,250
-55vl Astromech Socket - Cr50
-10vl Cargo
-440vl Fixed Medium Lasers - quad rofx5, -20ep, Cr14,400
-99vl Fixed Medium Rocket - dual launcher, Cr340
-3vl Video Targetting - 1,100m range, flat display and HUD, IR capable, Cr17,600

+1008vl Subtotal - +17ep, Cr576,000</pre>[/QUOTE]Now then, this doesn't include sensors (since the costs seem whack), or the R2 unit (that's extra buddy), or comms (hyper comms, multi-parsec with no comm lag), or the hyper-drive, or shields. And the rocket launcher is conventional rather than proton.

I'd actually just model the proton torpedo as the MRL launcher though for ease as I've done.

There's lots of room left and some power, for the missing systems depending how you want to model them. Or even make the antimatter plant bigger if needed.

The quad lasers have enough power for continuous fire at a rofx5 each for a total rofx20, good punch even factoring the vehicle scale.

Additionally using the vehicle rules we can have 4 fixed lasers and 2 fixed launchers no problemo. No silly hardpoint issues and less volume by cutting out the turret.

Oh yes, the 3000vl size I got from the 12.5m length and average guess of 1.5m square cross-section being about 2tons, plus a bit of the wings.

And you gotta like the price

Next I'll cook up a little R2 unit and then play with the missing systems mentioned above. One question, any idea on the range of the X-wing hyperdrive (i.e. how far is it from Hoth to Dagobah (did I spell that right, it's been years since I've seen it in print, now where did I leave my passport... )

 

[endersig]

That is another big problem with the X wing. Displacing less than a dTon??? what? Maybe my math is a little off, but is a dTon 14 cubic meters? anyway, the distances I've found from hoth to dagobah is about 3 parsecs. Not that far for a normal trav craft. The estimated speeds, however, for FTL travel in star wars range from 50,000,000 times the speed of light to 48,000,000 times the speed of light. Much faster than a week... I'm sort of new, so what sort of conversions could I do from t20 to CT? It is easy for me to envision CT, but if I'm making a newish system, I might have to abandon it.

 

[far-trader]

Yep, the X-wing is tiny. Like I said about 28m3 tops, probably less, but close enough. Depending on the rules Traveller dTons are 13.5m3 or 14m3 and the vl conversion is 1400vl to 1dTon. I think I had the Millenium Falcon pegged at about 200dTons at one time for comparison for what it's worth.

I thought Luke's sidetrip might have been longer than that but that actually makes it easier. I was afraid I'd have to squeeze in some serious distance hyper drive. I've got an idea that might be not too bad that could come up with a few parsecs range in it.

Ah, somehow I thought this was T20, probably that EP which could be from HG as well. Yep, hard to impossible to do in HG. The vehicle system in T20 is supposed to be close to Striker if you have that.

CT and T20 are pretty compatible so it shouldn't be too bad, just not sure what conversions you're after.

The travel time is the biggest(?) thing that will have to get tossed though, you're quite correct there. Subsidiary to it are a number of other issues, like the reduced requirement for quarters aboard (if a trip only takes hours you don't need a room and food for a week), which means all the costs for travel and transport will take a similar hit, so to be economically the costs of the ships have to come down too. Or the other way around, keep the costs the same and inflate the currency so that Cr10,000 for a couple hours travel is reasonable.

So I'll go play with the hyper drive idea and an R2 a bit. I know I built an R2 ages ago using Book 8 but I doubt I could find it. I'll make a new one with that and then maybe the T20 version and see how they compare.

 

[endersig]

These are my really REALLY poorly designed shields, but the point is just to get them out there for revision by the more expirienced.
They can either work as more armor (add on the hit table to prevent heavy damage for capital ships) or 1/n hits count for small craft ( so a 1 is a 2/3 , 2 is 1/2, 3 is 1/3 ect.)
Factor Size in tons Cost (Mcr) EP
1 .25 2.5 Mcr .25
2 1 5 MCr .5
3 3 7 MCr 3
4 5 10 MCr 5
5 7 15 MCr 10
6 15 17 MCr 15
7 25 20 MCr 20
8 40 35 MCr 35
9 45 40 40

 

[endersig]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I think I had the Millenium Falcon pegged at about 200dTons at one time for comparison for what it's worth.....

CT and T20 are pretty compatible so it shouldn't be too bad, just not sure what conversions you're after.

yeah, I always though the MF was 200dTons to. 2 turrets, 2 guys piloting it, econiomically viable for two guys... you get the picture.
For the T20-CT conversions, I just have NO expirience with T20, so some of the basics could really help me out. (Jump drive size, cost of a decent ship, weapons strengths... you know)

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I think the Falcon is more like 300-400 tons - it's certainly bigger than a 200-ton Far Trader.

 

[veltyen]

Size of millenium falcon

Flatened sphere, depending on source somewhere between 25 and 40 metres long. Somewhere between 4 and 7 metres thick (both of these are WIDE estimates, both because the ship was inconsistent in the films and for adequate lee-way).

Abstracting to a straight sided cylinder gives a volume between 1963 (Pi*4*25*25) and 8796 (Pi*7*40*40) cubic metres. Or between 140 and 630 dTon. Anything within that range would be fine, though I personally would tend towards the lower end.

Wadya know, everyone is correct

Personally I would place it as a 150 or 200 dTon fast courier/far trader. More from size comparrison with other vessels (such as fighters and imperial shuttles) and its behaviour then anything else.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Playing around with a 3d model I found (dunno if it's accurate, but it claims to be and it looks right), I get a cylinder r=16, h=4.5. This makes it about 250-300 dtons.

 

[far-trader]

Come to think now Andrew I might have had it closer to 250tons based on measurements of my old model, and upped it to 300tons to add the missile launchers in addition to the two turrets.

I like veltyen's math too, no wrong answers in a wide range of results

And yes there were at least two different models, one thick and one thin. I think the thick is the more accepted as true. And I too recall the wide variation in diameters. Can't recall if I came up with mine by using the listed scale for the model or by doing my own measurements of features.