Star Wars meets Traveller...

[ranger2261]

BRAVO ...BRAVO.
THE 150 DTON HAMBURGER COMES TO LIFE.
http://www.jedicenter.com.br/jedicenter/images/falcon_3.jpg
THIS FINE SITE HAS A DECKPLAN THAT SHOWS A DIFFERNT ENTRY RAMP FROM MIKE MARINCIC'S MIND.
ALSO A FRIEND OF ROB AND FRANK.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO MY RAVINGS.

 

[Jame]

I remember hearing - in one of the WEG roleplaying things; I never had the opportunity to get the Tech manuals - that cargo was like 100 tons. This was 100 metric tons, not displacement tons.

 

[ranger2261]

YOU ARE CORRECT SIR, GIVE HIM A CIGAR.
THE "STOCK" VERSION OF THE YT-1300 DOES INDEED HAVE A CARGO OF 100 METRIC TONS, DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SHIP,AND CARRY TWO CREW AND UP TO 6 PASSENGERS.
THE MF HAVING EXTENSIVE MODIFICATIONS,DOES NOT CARRY THE FULL 100 METRIC TONS. HAVING UPGRADED SHIELDS AND MANEUVER DRIVES AND OTHER ODDS AND ENDS TO SUIT THE OWNERS NEEDS.
*NOTE: ONE METRIC TON IN STAR WARS IS 1M^3.{I THINK}

 

[robject]

Really? Seven displacement tons?

Not much of a freighter... rather a specialized fast packet/passenger transport of some kind...

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, it seems Han wasn't much into bulk cargoes, just cargoes with artificially inflated prices in certain places....

 

[far-trader]

Well that 100 metric tons (call it 10 displacement tons you'll see) works with the idea I was playing with. Sorry for the delay in getting this typed up endersig.

Basically an old system mod I was playing with back in the days of LBBs hot off the press. Can't recall why, might even have been Star Wars related

Anyway using High Guard build rules for the most part, with one major difference. All references in the rules to tons are treated as mass tons not displacement tons. A displacement figure is arrived at by dividing the mass tons by 10. So for example to build the X-wing, working from we know it's about 2 displacement tons, we build it as if it is 10 times that in mass tons using HG as noted above.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">X-Wing TL15 MCr28.635

+20.0 tons Hull - Needle - SL MCr2.400

-0.8 tons Hyperdrive 3P (1) MCr3.200
-6.0 tons fuel xJ3

-3.4 tons Thrusters 6G MCr1.700
agility 6 (2)

-1.2 tons Main Power 6 MCr3.600
-1.2 tons fuel x4days (3)

-0.5 tons Pilot seat (4) MCr0.025
-0.5 tons R2 socket
-1.0 tons Computer m/1bis MCr4.000
-0.2 tons Cargo hold

-1.2 tons Armor Plating F5 MCr0.960

-0.5 tons Fixed Hardpoint (5)
Lasers F3 (6) MCr2.000
Launcher F2 (7) MCr0.750
-2.0 tons Weapons Power 10 (8) MCr6.000
-0.5 tons fuel x1day

-0.8 tons Shield Generator F7 (9) MCr4.000
-0.2 tons fuel x1day



(1) But it looks like the 3 parsec figure you
found for the Hoth-Dagobah trip is off looking at
the maps I found. No problem really, see the
description below for SW "fuel".

(2) The main power is for the drives (hyper and
normal space) and agility only.

(3) In the SW universe 4 days is lots, there is no
need for weeks of fuel endurance in most cases so
while it's calcualted as for weeks it is read in
days, also again see the note below for SW
"fuel".

(4) HG only requires a seat and computer as an
option.

(5) A fixed hardpoint is free and allows the
mounting of up to three weapons in half the space
and weight of a full turret. The weapons are
fired by the pilot pointing the whole craft at
the target and are subject to a -1 to hit. There
is no requirement for a computer or Target
program to use fixed fire weapons. "Stay on
target, stay on target." Though there are other
disadvantages

(6) Two standard beam lasers to model the four
lasers.

(7) A single missle launcher to model the double
proton torpedo launcher.

(8) Weapons power. May be rerouted if needed.

(9) My shield generator is a combination of two
elements. Begin by calculating the desired factor
as for hard armor of the same TL. Take the tons
and read that as the power required in EP and
divide it by 2. Then make a power plant of that
EP output. Use the tons of power plant as the
tons for the shield generator. Calculate fuel
normally. The cost of the shield generator is
found by adding the cost of the equivalent hard
armor and the power plant of the required EP.

Shields stack with hard armor. Damage to armor is
taken from Shields first if applicable and then
Plating.

Fuel Note - All reference to fuel above should be
taken to mean a high energy capacitor that is
recharged by a ground station, portable generator
or other source, even solar. So even though the
X-Wing only has a hyper-drive range of 3 parsecs
before needing to recharge (unless it draws from
it's other capacitors if sufficient), the speed
of travel is such that dropping out of
hyper-space every few seconds to recharge the
capacitors for another jump is no real limit on
it's range, only on the speed of the trip.

Computer - Normally the R2 unit handles the
flight of the craft while the human concentrates
on their role as gunner. The standard program
loadout is Maneuver Evade 1, Generate, Gunner
Interact, and Predict 1. For hyper-space travel
this is swapped out for Jump 3 and
Navigate.</pre>[/QUOTE]Subject to fixes (ask questions if it's unclear) but it looks like it might work. So you see now that 100 metric tons of cargo, divided by 10 is 10 displacement tons of cargo (close enough). Not a freighter so much as an express delivery truck. If we can nail down the displacement of the Falcon I'll be happy to see how it works with this system. Right now I think there's no shortage of hardpoints for weapons on it since even the smallest at some 60 tons displacement means 600 metric tons for up to 6 hardpoints

 

[far-trader]

Speaking of that R2 unit, I came up with a working version using Book 8. Cost is MCr4.000 (rounded ). Perhaps I'll post the details if there's interest

 

[endersig]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Speaking of that R2 unit, I came up with a working version using Book 8. Cost is MCr4.000 (rounded ). Perhaps I'll post the details if there's interest

Put me down as an interested fellow

 

[endersig]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Speaking of that R2 unit, I came up with a working version using Book 8. Cost is MCr4.000 (rounded ). Perhaps I'll post the details if there's interest

Put me down as an interested fellow

 

[Scarecrow]

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">X-Wing TL15 MCr28.635

+20.0 tons Hull - Needle - SL MCr2.400</pre>

[/quote]I'm not familiar with the T20 construction rules, so I don't know if I'm reading that right? That's a 20ton hull? That would make the X-Wing some 25M in length, and not much smaller than a C-130 transport plane.

Crow

 

[mike wightman]

Dan is postulating that 20.0 tons is the mass rather than displacement tonnage.

He is using a 10 tons of mass to 1 displacement ton of volume conversion scale.

So that X-wing design has a mass of 20 tons, but a displacement of 2dt (27-28m^3 depending on dt definition).

 

[Scarecrow]

Right! I'm with you. Now that I've read the whole post (sorry, Dan).
Of course, if you use my calculation of 2.7 dTons, you'd have 27tons to play with.

I'd like to see a TIE Fighter (1.74 dTons) done the same way and then pitch them against each other and see how they fare.

The downside to this system is that the Falcon would have to be built on a 700 ton hull and that's just crazy talk!!!!!!

Nice one.

Crow

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
Right! I'm with you. Now that I've read the whole post (sorry, Dan).

No probs Crow, Sigg had my back and clarified

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
Of course, if you use my calculation of 2.7 dTons, you'd have 27tons to play with.

Yeah, I'd done it up before you shared your measures and all I had to go on was a length and memory of my old model

What to do with an extra 7tons?? Probably more hyper-drive range I guess. Suggestions?

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
I'd like to see a TIE Fighter (1.74 dTons) done the same way and then pitch them against each other and see how they fare.

Sounds like fun

I'll see how busy I am and try to build it. Maybe someone could replay the 3 on 1 Vader and wingmen vs Luke in the trench

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
The downside to this system is that the Falcon would have to be built on a 700 ton hull and that's just crazy talk!!!!!!

Downside?

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
Nice one.

Crow

Thanks, it's just an old lazy "change the universe" idea from way back. I never used it for Traveller for obvious reasons but it seems it might work for the SW meets T needs with some tweaks.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">X-Wing TL15 MCr28.635

+20.0 tons Hull - Needle - SL MCr2.400</pre>

[/quote]I'm not familiar with the T20 construction rules, so I don't know if I'm reading that right? That's a 20ton hull? That would make the X-Wing some 25M in length, and not much smaller than a C-130 transport plane.

Crow </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, and the newest set of stats (the one just above) are HG2 since it seems endersig is a CT player. The first set (previous) was a T20 Vehicle design done as about 2dtons. Just to clairfy further.

Hmm, thinking about my restriction of Shields only being effective vs energy weapons I'm not so sure now. If that were the case then the Star Destroyers at Hoth could have just pounded the generator from orbit with those bombs they use in the asteroids. So I've dropped the restriction in the text above.

 

[far-trader]

OK, first crack at the basic Imperial TIE Fighter using my modified HG design rules with SW hacks and Crow's displacement figures. As ever comments welcome. We need a dogfight to pick the winner (once I tweak the X-Wing for the extra 7tons) since I think it's too close to call. It may come down to the pilot and luck, force, whatever

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">TIE Fighter TL15 MCr42.271

+17.4 tons Hull - Close Structure - PS MCr0.696

-5.9 tons Thrusters 12G (1) MCr2.950
agility 12
-2.1 tons Main Power 12 (2) MCr6.300
-0.5 tons fuel x1days (3)

-0.5 tons Pilot seat (4) MCr0.025
-3.0 tons Computer m/3 MCr18.000
-1.0 tons Cmp Power 6 MCr3.000
-0.2 tons fuel x1days
-0.1 tons Cargo hold

-1.0 tons Fixed Hardpoint (5)
Fusion F5 (6) MCr5.000
-2.1 tons Weapons Power 12 MCr6.300
-0.5 tons fuel x1days

-0.5 tons Solar Generator (7)



(1) The twin ion engine design is powerful and
agile but has a serious design flaw. If either of
the engines is damaged in combat the entire
balance is destroyed and the fighter is dead in
space.

(2) The main power is for the drives and agility
only.

(3) As mentioned previously, in the SW universe 4
days is lots, there is no need for weeks of fuel
endurance in most cases. So while it's calcualted
as for weeks it is read in days, and in the case
of the short range TIE Fighter it only has 1 day
of endurance. Also again see the note below for
SW "fuel".

(4) HG only requires a seat and computer as an
option.

(5) A fixed hardpoint is free and allows the
mounting of up to two heavy weapons in half the
space and weight of a full turret. The weapons
are fired by the pilot pointing the whole craft
at the target and are subject to a -1 to hit.

(6) One fusion gun to model the two heavy lasers.

(7) Becuase I had 0.5 tons left and couldn't
think of anything else I mean they're so THERE
and they should be good for something. I'd figure
the recharge the power capacitors (fuel, see
below) at a rate of equal tons per day(?) in the
habitable zone of a star. 10x that in the inner
zone and 1/10th that in the outer zone. (Can you
see me? I'm over here, waving my hands )

Fuel Note - All reference to fuel above should be
taken to mean a high energy capacitor that is
recharged by a ground station, portable generator
or other source, even solar. So even though the
X-Wing only has a hyper-drive range of 3 parsecs
before needing to recharge (unless it draws from
it's other capacitors if sufficient), the speed
of travel is such that dropping out of
hyper-space every few seconds to recharge the
capacitors for another jump is no real limit on
it's range, only on the speed of the trip.

Computer - A definite edge for the TIE Fighter,
but is it enough to offset the lack of armor or
shields? The Empire hardly cares, they'll just
build more and clone some fresh pilots. The
standard program loadout is Maneuver Evade 2,
Gunner Interact, Selective 3, and Predict 3. An
ECM program is ready in storage to swap as
needed.</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Ran Targas]

I think that TIE looks like the heavy favorite in any prolonged fight, the X-Wing just can't maneuver to maintain any tactical advantage. An X-Wing pilot would have to unload on the TIE on the first pass and hope he does enough damage to prevent the TIE from turning on his tail.

The big advantage of your X-Wing is its ability to dictate where the battle will take place (i.e. hyperdrive) and can therefore strike where the TIE's are not or draw the TIE's away from the real target. Without the Force though, I don't think an X-Wing pilot has much of a chance against that killer.

Maybe these are the stats for the TIE/In or Avenger? Otherwise, I don't think the battle over Endor would have ended happily!

 

[Jame]

Ran, the theory for Endor - as proposed by Tim Zahn's Admiral Thrawn in the Heir to the Empire trilogy (somewhere) - is that they lost because the Emperor died and the Fleet lost his motivating force. YMMV, though.

Dan, for the WEG RPG the R2 unit's much cheaper (Jame goes and takes a look), at Cr4,525. (On a net-board for the SW-RPG, they theorized that the relative cheapness of the tech is that it's been around for so long.)

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Jame:
Dan, for the WEG RPG the R2 unit's much cheaper (Jame goes and takes a look), at Cr4,525. (On a net-board for the SW-RPG, they theorized that the relative cheapness of the tech is that it's been around for so long.)

Makes sense that there would be a cost savings, even though I built the thing at TL17 for the batteries and brain. The biggest difference of course is the entirely different economics I expect. So cut any Traveller costs/values by 1,000 to compare. So a trip on the Falcon would be Cr10 per person (if you could convince Han to accept Imperial Credits <spits> more if you wish to "avoid any Imperial entanglements"

) and freight is Cr1 per dton (Cr10 per mton). No wonder he resorts to <ahem> small packet trade It also explains throwing the deed to the Falcon on the table at some low stakes poker game. The thing can't be worth more than Cr10,000

Anyway, that's all random speculation but fits the fact that in a SW/CT universe due to the shortening of distances (seconds to cross light years, instant comms across any distance) that all costs associated with transport will be reduced too. And don't forget wages in the mix.

As for the TIE Fighter I agree it looks like the winner in a dogfight, as it should be given it doesn't need the hyper-drive. It's like Traveller's SDB vs a Cruiser, or the old Rider concept. More bang for the buck if you eliminate the jump drive. And as noted that means the only way for the X-Wings to succeed is hit and run strikes at vulnerable places using it's hyper-drive.

 

[Ran Targas]

^That is not to say Dan that I don't like your fighters! I think they are great! The problem is, after years of denial, my players will want me to put them into play.

Are you working on the Y-Wing or A-Wing yet?

 

[far-trader]

I was thinking B-Wing or YT next, but first I gotta adjust the X-Wing and type up the R2 unit

Hmm, maybe you could do a one-off night for them to get it out of their system? Or would they be wanting more? It'd take a lot of work to make a campaign out of it.