Star Wars meets Traveller...

[far-trader]

Another handy UBB Code feature to learn endersig, the, erm, "code" feature lets you preserve format spacing, like this...

Originally posted by endersig:
These are my really REALLY poorly designed shields, but the point is just to get them out there for revision by the more expirienced.
They can either work as more armor (add on the hit table to prevent heavy damage for capital ships) or 1/n hits count for small craft ( so a 1 is a 2/3 , 2 is 1/2, 3 is 1/3 ect.)
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Factor Size (tons) Cost (Mcr) EP
1 0.25 2.5 0.25
2 1.00 5.0 0.50
3 3.00 7.0 3.00
4 5.00 10.0 5.00
5 7.00 15.0 10.00
6 15.00 17.0 15.00
7 25.00 20.0 20.00
8 40.00 35.0 35.00
9 45.00 40.0 40.00</pre>

[/quote]I'll have to comment later, haven't had a chance to play with the numbers.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by endersig:
The estimated speeds, however, for FTL travel in star wars range from 50,000,000 times the speed of light...

Is that for real? A quick calculation (if I read/did it right) means they travel a parsec (jump 1 = 3.2616 light years) in about 2 seconds.

That means about 17.5 hours to cross the milky-way galaxy (at the round figure of 100,000 light years across).

I think that's just stupid fast. I'd wind it down to a more believable 34 minutes for a parsec and about 2 years to cross our galaxy (which is a biggish one, you could figure the SW Galaxy is smaller, I think I saw a map a long time ago ). Both cases being dividing your speed by 1,000, so 50,000 times the speed of light.

 

[RandyT0001]

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by endersig:
The estimated speeds, however, for FTL travel in star wars range from 50,000,000 times the speed of light...

Is that for real? A quick calculation (if I read/did it right) means they travel a parsec (jump 1 = 3.2616 light years) in about 2 seconds.</font>[/QUOTE]OMG, that'd outdrag a Chevy hotrod!

That means about 17.5 hours to cross the milky-way galaxy (at the round figure of 100,000 light years across).

I think that's just stupid fast. I'd wind it down to a more believable 34 minutes for a parsec and about 2 years to cross our galaxy (which is a biggish one, you could figure the SW Galaxy is smaller, I think I saw a map a long time ago ). Both cases being dividing your speed by 1,000, so 50,000 times the speed of light.

In Return of the Sith there is a comment that the Jedi will have to travel half way across the galaxy to help a fellow Jedi on a remote outer rim world. Just a few scenes later those Jedi do show up (and seemingly using their Jedi powers on the camera crew to avoid detection since they suddenly appear in the middle of a coliseum filled with bad guys

). The appearent time difference between the original statement about the distance and the Jedis' arrival was a few hours. So in StarWars FTL travel is very, very much FTL!

 

[endersig]

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by endersig:
The estimated speeds, however, for FTL travel in star wars range from 50,000,000 times the speed of light...

Is that for real? A quick calculation (if I read/did it right) means they travel a parsec (jump 1 = 3.2616 light years) in about 2 seconds.

That means about 17.5 hours to cross the milky-way galaxy (at the round figure of 100,000 light years across).

I think that's just stupid fast. I'd wind it down to a more believable 34 minutes for a parsec and about 2 years to cross our galaxy (which is a biggish one, you could figure the SW Galaxy is smaller, I think I saw a map a long time ago ). Both cases being dividing your speed by 1,000, so 50,000 times the speed of light. </font>[/QUOTE]It is for real, but realize that it is off a site where a fan did all the calculations, not an official deal. Also, he was quick to point out that the same ship would take varying amounts of time to accomplish similar jumps. It is very much a CVE thing, but it is still WAY fast

 

[Scarecrow]

As a point of interest, a couple of years ago I started building 1:1 scale block models of various vehicles in Studio MAX and using it to get pretty accurate calculations. I did this because I'd always felt that 200dtons for the Falcon was, frankly waaaaay too much and I wanted to calculate exactly what it was.
These are the Star Wars results:

X-Wing Fighter 12.9m 36.43cuM 2.7dtons
TIE Fighter 6.3m 23.52cuM 1.74dtons
Millenium Falcon 26.7m 863.48cuM 63.96dtons
Slave1 21.5m 432.18cuM 32.01dtons
Rebel Transport 90m 17,876cuM 1324.1dtons
Star Destroyer 1604m 69.18milcuM 5.1mil dtons
DeathStar II 160,000m 17,088bilcuM 1265.8 Bil dtons
Tyderium Shuttle 20m 594.10cuM 44dtons
Cloud City 16000m 306,322.3milcuM 22,690.5 mil dtons

1 DTon = 13.5 cuM
1 Billion = 1,000,000,000,000
1 Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

As I say they are block models (basic shapes - no fine detail) but I'm confident that they are accurate to within about 10%.
As you can see the Millenium Falcon is nowhere near 200dtons.

I still have many SW ships/vehicles on my list to do that I haven't gotten round to yet. Any requests?

Crow

 

[Jame]

One thing is that Star Wars ships don't seem to have that "silly" little "one hardpoint for each 100 dtons" thing - the Falcon has not only two quad laser cannons but the fixed missile launcher, while the X-Wing has not only four lasers but the two torpedo launchers.

Plus several of the old WEG game things had massively overgunned ships, but they weren't the movies. Do with that what you will.

 

[robject]

My Falcon deckplans assumed 200 tons, which left enough room for everything inside, plus conformed to the Traveller 'A2' standard... with the exception of the Solomani-style fixed gun mount forward (which is where I put the missile tube).

Paul Shirf generally follows my deckplans, except he built it as a jump-1 model: http://www.downport.com/traveller/tech/Schirf/YT-1300.gif

 

[Scarecrow]

Further to my earlier post regarding volumes.

Here's a quick grab of the Falcon Block Model I used to get the volume. On the right is the 1:1 scale model built using plans I found on the net, scanned from some officially endorsed book or other - Star Wars vehicles guide or something I think. Then scaled so that it was exactly 26.7m long.

Granted there's some dispute as to which is the correct dimensions for the Falcon as I believe the studio models differed from each other as did the full size hull on set. However, dimensional discrepancies aside, in order for it to be 200 dtons, it would have to be some three times the volume of the official Falcon volume. I've added, on the left, the exact same model scaled up to 200dtons (2700 M3) to illustrate. I've also included a Human for reference.

Crow

 

[Andrew Boulton]

At which size does the cockpit look right?

 

[Scarecrow]

To my mind the smaller one looks a heck of a lot closer (it's also the officially endorsed length - not that that means a great deal) but then the interior sets again bore massive discrepancies when compared to the exterior models and sets aswell.

I guess what I'm saying is, here's a pretty accurate block model of the Millenium Falcon, made to the officially endorsed length given in various tech manuals and it's 63.96 dtons. Ignore it if you want.

Crow

 

[robject]

You're right -- my deckplans blatantly violated the 27m length (I remember that number). And the smaller model looks more like the correct size.

In my mind, all of this implies that porting to Star Wars would imply a pretty consistent Tech Level of 16 or 17, with antimatter power and a new, breakthrough FTL drive.

I guess if travel times are so much faster, then smaller interstellar transports make sense.

Call it 64 tons. That's Tiny! We're talking Modular Cutter Plus, here. Let's see, Pilot, Co-pilot, three passengers. That's five staterooms, 20 tons. Fuel: none (this is post-jump, remember?) -- or, if you're still clinging to a jumplike model, say 9 tons for a 3-parsec jump. No fuel needed for power (it's antimatter). Maneuver-4 (1 ton), Jump-3 (3 tons) = 4 tons. Three tons for weapon systems. You've got 37 tons left for cargo (or 28 if you're still using jump mechanics).

Hey, this is pretty neat. I may borrow it..

 

[RandyT0001]

What staterooms? In all the SW movies, I've never seen a scene with a stateroom on the MF. There is a common room for meals, games, and Jedi training but no beds, etc that I've seen. If it only takes 17 hours to cross the galaxy then the MF is more like a modern day airliner, in function, than a spaceship normally associated with ships at sea. JMO

 

[far-trader]

You don't even need staterooms when most trips are only a few minutes (takes longer to get clear to engage hyper-drive than the jump itself). Even the longest trips are mere hours. You'd only need accomdations aboard if the crew were living there or you wanted something like a camper. I think the Falcon and it's class would have two staterooms (there are 4 crew seats on the bridge) for the crew and the rest is working space.

 

[Ran Targas]

If we carry on with the modern-day air freighter model, the MF would have a small crew lounge (which it has) and a small sleeping area for crew rest; otherwise, all other empty space is devoted to cargo.

In the case of the MF, a lot of this cargo space has been compromised with the patch jobs and mismatched equipment upgrades she's notorious for.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I seem to remember seeing hammocks/bunks in one of the movies. But, they were open to the common area, I believe.

Ran, the MF actually has more cargo space than listed, though. Remember the "undocumented" space beneath the floorboards?

 

[Scarecrow]

There's what appears to be a small bunk clearly visible behind the seats around the chess table.

Also Luke is in some sort of small bunk room after they pick him off the underside of Cloud City. Not sure if it's the same room but, according to the incredible cross sections book there is a crew quarters in the aft portside section of the ship. It looks to be about 2 or 3 dtons in size and has three bunks and small storage lockers.

Crow

 

[ranger2261]

i say thee "WOW".
u rock again scarecrow.
i love your take on the MF.
i do also follow into star wars, and read many a file on the MF.
Rob Brown said on the subject, that the models used to make the outside never quite measured up to the inside sets.
so he did an in depth look at her and came up with something closer to 33 m^2 long.
he also worked w/ Frank B. Bonura, who just happens to have a site w/ the plans for the MF.
http://deckplans.00sf.com/ under vessels ,under the old ship section.
have a look and see what you can come up with in lenth and displacement,and post one of you cool models .
thanks for listening to my rave.

 

[Scarecrow]

I remember first coming across the interior/exterior discrepancies when I started scratch-detailing the rather poor interiors on the ERTL model kit.
Matching up the guns on the exterior of the ship with the guns on the cupola set, puts the door providing access to the ladder at the rear of the ship - facing directly rear. In the interior common room and corridor set, it's in the forward, starboard section directly opposite the entryway from the ramp and cockpit. The gunwell set is also much deeper than the exterior depth of the Falcon (on any version).
Then I came across Rob Brown's excellent in-depth study and discovered that no two parts of the Falcon match any other anyway.
The Deckplan he did with the excellent Mr Bonura is a great compromise between all the discrepancies (though I simply can't buy the zig-zag boarding ramp for some reason).
33M long eh? Well, that'll be easy enough, I'll scale the existing model to fit their plans and see what we get.

Crow

 

[Pickles]

From what I remember, the Falcon shrunk considerably in size when they built the full-size model in TESB. Just look at the height of the underside above Han Solo's head. I always thought it looked a bit small after ANH.

 

[Scarecrow]

Okay then, I took Mr Bonura's 'old' deckplan.

The scale was 6.9pixels = 1 foot. The plan was 773 pixels in length, making it 112.02 feet and ultimately 34.14 meters in length.

I had to do a tiny bit of reshaping to my block model to fit his plans but not much. I also added in an extra facet to the saucer to make it a more accurate shape.

The resultant model yielded a volume of 1854.48 M3 - a grand total of 137.36 dtons

The same model at 26.7M turns out to be 72.7 dtons.

I like that. The Falcon always struck me as more of a 100 tonner than a 200 tonner. You only have to look at my Wedgie model to see what size a 100 tonner is - actually that model is closer to about 80 dtons!!!