Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Yeah, I used yours for my unfinished Serpent model. That fits easily.
Starport Landing Pads
- Thread starter Mithras
- Start date
Yeah, I used yours for my unfinished Serpent model. That fits easily.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
IB, almost certainly, but they wouldn't be common.
Unstreamlined Jump-1 ships are not suitable for supplying bases. Unstreamlined J2 and J3 aren't as suitable as streamlined J2 and J3 ships are.
Oh, no argument there. That thread bifurcated from the question of whether or not the Scouts would have other ships than those already mentioned (I didn't recall that Fleet Couriers had been mentioned in FT, so that's one in the eye for me; I still think it's highly unlikely that the Scouts won't have some ship types we haven't heard about yet, though).
Indeed, the Exploration Office is explicitly said to maintain "many ship types not normally seen in other IISS duties, such as laboratory ships, free traders, cruisers, and several larger vessels". [Original IISS writeup]
Note that I don't think that one can conclude that the ship types used in other IISS duties does not include some that we haven't heard about.
Indeed, if your prefab base is built of elements larger than what a shuttle can handle, you would at ther very least need a type of streamlined transport big enough to carry the elements
.Hans
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Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
A J2/J3 XBT carrying a Cutter + several modules could do a lot.
Indeed, if your prefab base is built of elements larger than what a shuttle can handle, you would at ther very least need a type of streamlined transport big enough to carry the elements
True
But none of these ships would really need to land at a base like this.
BTW: The T20 Scout fits!
But why modify an X-boat tender instead of buying something that was actually suited for the job? There's no discount gained since the bigger drives would require a bigger engine section, so the hull would classify as a different class.
Also, a J3 XBT carrying a cutter would be suitable for transporting, what, 5-600 d-tons of supplies. A Scout would be suitable for transporting 3 d-tons. Don't you think there's a gap in between those two capacities that might require some 200 and 400 and 600 and 800T ships?
And finally, something that just occurred to me, shouldn't a generic Scout base[*] be designed on the assumption that civilian traffic might on occasion need to visit?
[*] It is supposed to be generic, right? If it's supposed to be a custom job, I withdraw all my comments.
Hans
Well, scout bases always occur alongside civillian starports, so I don't see that happening unless there's an emergency.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I would think only if they make the Detached Duty (aka Scout) roll in mustering out (or referee fiat for same). That's the way I recall the statements anyway. Only for that ship, or in MTU between assignments and ships the DD Scout can live on base or deadhead on any IISS ships that have room.
...for what it's worth in MTU the ship means you are actually on Detached Duty. You can expect to be tasked with assignments regularly. If you make a habit of ducking duty you'll lose the ship and privileges, if you're lucky you won't be charged with dereliction of duty :devil:
You might also be assigned different ships, added gear, and personnel for some missions. And of course you're always responsible for the gear, including the ship. It's not yours to sell. And you're not a Merchant which in MTU means no business license to do business (though with such a small cargo hold and crappy staterooms that's tough enough even with a license)...
...doesn't mean a 'creative' Scout couldn't find a way to pad their account balance Just don't get caught :devil:
EDIT: Had a minute so I dug up the relevant Book 1 text (Book 6 is oddly non-informative on the issue, or I missed it)...
"Fuel is free at scout bases. Maintenance is free at the scout bases at class B starports."
Referring to the Scout's assignment and use of the Type S. An interesting bit, touched on above, and I'd not really noticed (or forgotten, more likely) is the (annual) maintenance issue. Interesting because it limits the Base capability to the Starport limits. Which I seem to recall having always done but being argued against at one point by others here
I suppose one could twist semantics to say that it's free at class B starports but can be purchased at others. But then one might as well argue that no maintenance is available at Scout bases co-located with class A starports which makes no sense. BTW, if DonM stumbles on this that might be a bit of clarification for the big errata project. Changing "at class B starports" to "at class A or B starports" for clarity.
...for what it's worth in MTU the ship means you are actually on Detached Duty. You can expect to be tasked with assignments regularly. If you make a habit of ducking duty you'll lose the ship and privileges, if you're lucky you won't be charged with dereliction of duty :devil:
You might also be assigned different ships, added gear, and personnel for some missions. And of course you're always responsible for the gear, including the ship. It's not yours to sell. And you're not a Merchant which in MTU means no business license to do business (though with such a small cargo hold and crappy staterooms that's tough enough even with a license)...
...doesn't mean a 'creative' Scout couldn't find a way to pad their account balance
Just don't get caught :devil:EDIT: Had a minute so I dug up the relevant Book 1 text (Book 6 is oddly non-informative on the issue, or I missed it)...
"Fuel is free at scout bases. Maintenance is free at the scout bases at class B starports."
Referring to the Scout's assignment and use of the Type S. An interesting bit, touched on above, and I'd not really noticed (or forgotten, more likely) is the (annual) maintenance issue. Interesting because it limits the Base capability to the Starport limits. Which I seem to recall having always done but being argued against at one point by others here
I suppose one could twist semantics to say that it's free at class B starports but can be purchased at others. But then one might as well argue that no maintenance is available at Scout bases co-located with class A starports which makes no sense. BTW, if DonM stumbles on this that might be a bit of clarification for the big errata project. Changing "at class B starports" to "at class A or B starports" for clarity.
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BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
EDIT: Had a minute so I dug up the relevant Book 1 text (Book 6 is oddly non-informative on the issue, or I missed it)...
"Fuel is free at scout bases. Maintenance is free at the scout bases at class B starports."
Referring to the Scout's assignment and use of the Type S. An interesting bit, touched on above, and I'd not really noticed (or forgotten, more likely) is the (annual) maintenance issue. Interesting because it limits the Base capability to the Starport limits. Which I seem to recall having always done but being argued against at one point by others here
What that indicates to me is that presence of a "scout base" does not always mean there is a full autonomous ISS facility... but that often the IISS has only a hangar and offices at a starport, with the starport (or a multi-stellar or local company) owning/running all maintenance facilities.
The IISS simply contracts with the local shipyard for all required work... including giving the Detached-duty Scouts a voucher to pay for materials/labor at the civilian repair facility.
IISS bases co-located with IN bases would use the Navy facilities.
Only at scout base hospitals.
Er, you meant berthing. Scouts who receive a Type S scout ship while mustering out are considered in detached duty. Their Type S can get free fuel, and maintenance at B+ bases. LBB 1 also said that detached duty scouts got 5000 cr a year stipend, but that disappeared in later editions.
I don't suppose that a typical scout character showing up with something else would get the same service.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Had a minute so I dug up the relevant Book 1 text (Book 6 is oddly non-informative on the issue, or I missed it)...
"Fuel is free at scout bases. Maintenance is free at the scout bases at class B starports."
Referring to the Scout's assignment and use of the Type S. An interesting bit, touched on above, and I'd not really noticed (or forgotten, more likely) is the (annual) maintenance issue. Interesting because it limits the Base capability to the Starport limits. Which I seem to recall having always done but being argued against at one point by others here
EDIT: Actually I think Bases are by their very definition autonomous. What I think it means is that they do not exceed (or more precisely they match) local capacity/infrastructure. More or less would be pointless and wasteful (I suppose). Subcontracting/working with the Starport (also an Imperial Base, call it Merchant or Civilian if you like) is possible but I don't see it as likely. Likewise I see any instances of systems with both a Navy and Scout base being separate installations, and not sharing facilities, except possibly in wartime when it all comes under IN control (per Supp 9 iirc).
Considering just CT sources, and I'm sure I've missed or forgotten some (for example I haven't checked TCS for one), let's proceed logically.
- LBB3: Starport is generated/specified first. That determines the likelihood of the types of Bases present.
- LBB1: Scout characters acquiring a ship notes that (free) (annual) maintenance is only available where the Starport is B (or better), matching the Starport qualifiers.
- Supp 9: Defining Bases (possibly) contradicts the above by noting "Scout bases (as opposed to way stations) are small repair and maintenance facilities capable of handling ships of 1,000 tons and under."
Conclusion: I think the best choice here is LBB1 and the suggestion (backed by the LBB3 generation order) that Bases = Starport for features and quality. It seems the most logical from the information given.
Counterpoints?
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No clue where, but I thought there was something to the effect that all former scouts reported anything significant or interesting they found, and thus being effectively detached duty for the rest of their life.
On the other hand, I can't think of any canon that might have said that, so it may have been somewhere outside of canon. Or it may be dying brain cells misfiring...
On the other hand, I can't think of any canon that might have said that, so it may have been somewhere outside of canon. Or it may be dying brain cells misfiring...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I have the same recollection (or foggy memory ) as you MR TEK. It might have been a house rule of ages ago, or possibly some bits of canon mashed together. My memory also has the IISS (borrowing/co-opting a phrase*) "Once a Scout, always a Scout." dating back to my CT days in from the 80's (and to the best of my recall, my addition to the game)...
...but this was more a way of drafting PC's into the DD office as needed for the game. Sort of a delayed muster roll bonus of "Scout Ship".
Formal debriefing and assignments only happen for those who get the Ship roll though. The "Once a Scout, always a Scout" was more a service thing where one Scout could always count on another Scout to back them up, whether active service or not.
* sourced from the USMC of course, though I'm sure other forces have or had similar at one point or another, but then I don't model my CT Marines on the USMC
) as you MR TEK. It might have been a house rule of ages ago, or possibly some bits of canon mashed together. My memory also has the IISS (borrowing/co-opting a phrase*) "Once a Scout, always a Scout." dating back to my CT days in from the 80's (and to the best of my recall, my addition to the game)......but this was more a way of drafting PC's into the DD office as needed for the game. Sort of a delayed muster roll bonus of "Scout Ship".
Formal debriefing and assignments only happen for those who get the Ship roll though. The "Once a Scout, always a Scout" was more a service thing where one Scout could always count on another Scout to back them up, whether active service or not.
* sourced from the USMC of course, though I'm sure other forces have or had similar at one point or another, but then I don't model my CT Marines on the USMC
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
FWIW, per my note above, I've now looked at TCS and see no mention of specifics for Bases. All rules refer to Starports, which tends to reinforce the notion that Bases are limited to Starport class for features and quality. In my opinion anyway
What about temporary bases? You know, the Scouts decides to do a survey on a world with a lowish population (so practically no logistical support from the locals are possible) and expects it to take a couple of years, so they set up a base for a couple of hundred people on an empty continent. They expect to be there for several years, but not forever. But while they're there, they'll need considerable facilities.
Hans
Hans
LBB6 pg.5 "The Records Branch maintains documentation on all Scouts serving on detached duty. Virtually all former Scouts fit this classification and are subject to recall for military service or for specific scout missions. Normally, however, only those Scouts with surplus scout vessels on loan to them are actively monitored."
To me this says that;
1. Unless you have ship if you go on a Scout Base you are ID'ed that you are there and probably have to report where you have laid over for the last couple of months or so and if the Intell Branch wants more they'll talk to you. :devil:
2. The ship benefit may be ANY surplus ship the ref wants/needs them to have.
3. The ship could be pulled but not them :devil:
4. In the middle of op another Scout walks in a gives a recall notice, blowing covers or scams. (best laid plans ...... ) :devil::devil:
Just thoughts.
NOTE: Interesting on how this thread evolved from general starship pads/pods and starport layouts to Scout Bases and personnel. Not complaining, great ideas! just interesting.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I've always seen those types of scenarios covered solely by ships. A Donosev (or several - or other types) with supplies run out by Couriers. Rotating out for R&R and annual maintenance. No need to build a base of any significant support on some back of beyond rock just while studying it. At best the world might rate a Class E investment, which if not supported after the survey will quickly revert to a Class X.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...NOTE: Interesting on how this thread evolved from general starship pads/pods and starport layouts to Scout Bases and personnel. Not complaining, great ideas! just interesting.
Agreed, though I will consider branching off a new thread if warranted. Related wandering is fine though
...(well past
) time for bed now though, later all.
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As an aside on temp bases. ( I would think ESPECIALLY for scouts...) The Type W Barge.
The write up has always intrigued me as it says that huge numbers were produced and surplussed. List price 18.85Mcr volume discount 15.08Mcr when the Scout service purchased them. In service they would depreciate the same as any other ship. But the write-up states so many where produced that many were mothballed without seeing any service, or sold off immediately to local worlds. A mothballed barge, kept maintained at flight ready, would depreciate at 1% every 2 years. If effort was not made to keep up maintenance it would depreciate at 1% per year. Many have been in storage for 100 years or more. And the depot managers would likely be happy as hell to dispose of any they can. Since it seems to be the nature of a bureaucratic procurement office to be hard to end contracts, especially ones that were written to be such an advantage to the contractor, I am sure that they are still merrily being cranked out somewhere.
I would think a type W would be the ideal cheap command center for a class E temporary port. Convert a stateroom to office space, you have cargo space, fuel tanks and if it does not come standard with enough electronics to act as a control tower they could be easily added. At 6 decks high, it has the height for controlling visual flight operations, and excellent range for line of sight ground comms. And the price has got to be right!.
I have considered deck plans for gutted out barges for warehousing, quarters, and other uses.
It seems to me that even the smallest mercie company that wanted a quick and dirty class E port could put one of these babies down without blowing their budget, as well as prospectors, fledgling colonies, remote outposts, and anyone else whose shoestring budget was particularly short.
You could have a whole functioning base for a single modular cutter, BEFORE you even bought the first base module. It also can deliver itself to the destination world under its own power without the need for a separate transport. And it has space legs if it ever needed to be moved. If it is to remain planet bound you could part out the drives and probably MAKE money from the original purchase, although the drives would have to be transported away AFTER the the hull was in its final home.
with the venerable Sulimon as an example, it is clear that the scout service has llittle problems with cheap vessels that have systematic quirks. This is not the the ship you want as the depot to a high prestige holding, but it is serviceable, if just, and if your project does not have the budget to purchase and transport one, it has no prayer of being viable anyway.
Something I was toying with for a while, but the whole idea of the Sulimon and the Barge leads me to think scouts are unlikely to throw anything away that they can re-purpose for little cash. It just fits fits my image of the scouts as stubbornly unconventional and resourceful. I suspect the same philosophy to extend to some of those support ships everyone is wondering about. A certain percentage of the scout support fleet might be surplussed military craft or corporate craft.
Just an idea that I have been toying with for a year or two.
The write up has always intrigued me as it says that huge numbers were produced and surplussed. List price 18.85Mcr volume discount 15.08Mcr when the Scout service purchased them. In service they would depreciate the same as any other ship. But the write-up states so many where produced that many were mothballed without seeing any service, or sold off immediately to local worlds. A mothballed barge, kept maintained at flight ready, would depreciate at 1% every 2 years. If effort was not made to keep up maintenance it would depreciate at 1% per year. Many have been in storage for 100 years or more. And the depot managers would likely be happy as hell to dispose of any they can. Since it seems to be the nature of a bureaucratic procurement office to be hard to end contracts, especially ones that were written to be such an advantage to the contractor, I am sure that they are still merrily being cranked out somewhere.
I would think a type W would be the ideal cheap command center for a class E temporary port. Convert a stateroom to office space, you have cargo space, fuel tanks and if it does not come standard with enough electronics to act as a control tower they could be easily added. At 6 decks high, it has the height for controlling visual flight operations, and excellent range for line of sight ground comms. And the price has got to be right!.
I have considered deck plans for gutted out barges for warehousing, quarters, and other uses.
It seems to me that even the smallest mercie company that wanted a quick and dirty class E port could put one of these babies down without blowing their budget, as well as prospectors, fledgling colonies, remote outposts, and anyone else whose shoestring budget was particularly short.
You could have a whole functioning base for a single modular cutter, BEFORE you even bought the first base module. It also can deliver itself to the destination world under its own power without the need for a separate transport. And it has space legs if it ever needed to be moved. If it is to remain planet bound you could part out the drives and probably MAKE money from the original purchase, although the drives would have to be transported away AFTER the the hull was in its final home.
with the venerable Sulimon as an example, it is clear that the scout service has llittle problems with cheap vessels that have systematic quirks. This is not the the ship you want as the depot to a high prestige holding, but it is serviceable, if just, and if your project does not have the budget to purchase and transport one, it has no prayer of being viable anyway.
Something I was toying with for a while, but the whole idea of the Sulimon and the Barge leads me to think scouts are unlikely to throw anything away that they can re-purpose for little cash. It just fits fits my image of the scouts as stubbornly unconventional and resourceful. I suspect the same philosophy to extend to some of those support ships everyone is wondering about. A certain percentage of the scout support fleet might be surplussed military craft or corporate craft.
Just an idea that I have been toying with for a year or two.
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Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Modifying an existing design would make training and maintenance easier (it's effectively the same ship, just with longer legs).
Supp7 says a J1 XBT has 660dt of cargo space - each extra J1 eats a bit over 100dt.
It's likely they'd visit several bases on each run.
That's what the civilian starport is for!
It might be an idea to set aside some waste ground nearby - effectively a Class-E port - for emergencies or unexpected arrivals, although again the Starport will already have this.
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