Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Ravs,
Accepted, & Welcome aboard.
Starports
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
Accepted, & Welcome aboard.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
This does not appear to be headed for a T20 version of “GURPS: Starports”. It appears to be heading in the direction of a LBB like system to convert basic data like Population and TL into a description of what facilities and services are available at that particular starport. I just wanted everyone posting here to SEE what it is that LIAM DEVLIN is actually proposing.
[Please, correct me if I am wrong and have misunderstood what this is all about.] [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Mr. atpollard is correct. We are not converting any one-or single system into another. This will be an attempt to bridge all with the basic data all of them use-- the Universal World Profile. (UWP).
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
So noted!
Quite alright Ms Mickazoid, and your bias for an 'LBB'-sized tome here is actually more of an asset than a hindrance, IMO. 'Distractions' and 'unfocussing' happens, which is why we have our insidious starport project plan
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
LOL!
On planet Borat, they'd be strong, sweaty longshorewomen
Aren't they: Borat [1234] D653746-5 Ni Po 323 Na G2 V/ Kazakhistan Subsector/ Outback Sector? 
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Thank you Mr TeK, tis high praise indeed, and we have yet to even commence. I hope you find the sum of our labors useful when we finish.
Sincerely,
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
I can see both:
The "Starport" will have an Harbor athmosphere with passengers calling in / sending a Vagr messenger / Dropping by and huge boards (Physical or electronical) announcing estimated arrival times of regular ships (Liners, Subies on contract etc, i.e Oberlindes Liner "Titanic" from Mora to Rhylanor, ETA 18:00 local, overdue 2 hours) and recent arrivals of unsheduled shipping (i.e Free Trader "Witch of Endor" from Mora, jumped in system 14:32 local, on course to Hightport, ETA 18h, Will take passengers and cargo).
The "Spaceport" where the in-system ships and shuttles depart will be more of an airport with fixed shedules, passengers in line and all.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Here's a suggestion for something a little different, and a possible offer:
Starport Stories
A collection of 6 scenarios and/or short stories, each based around a different port (1 each of A, B, C, D, E, X), with maps, NPCs, etc. A bit more interesting than just another set of rules.
SPL may be interested in publishing this.
Starport Stories
A collection of 6 scenarios and/or short stories, each based around a different port (1 each of A, B, C, D, E, X), with maps, NPCs, etc. A bit more interesting than just another set of rules.
SPL may be interested in publishing this.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Thread announcement:
Our team is as follows:
Mr. ravs
Mr. atpollard
Mr. Michael Brinkhues
Ms. Mickazoid
& myself
We are assembled, and milestone 1 has been achieved, and the first half of Section III. Execution is done.
Please comply and e-mail me offline as we proceed along the plan's stated path. And thank you, for volunteering once again.
sincerely,
Our team is as follows:
Mr. ravs
Mr. atpollard
Mr. Michael Brinkhues
Ms. Mickazoid
& myself
We are assembled, and milestone 1 has been achieved, and the first half of Section III. Execution is done.
Please comply and e-mail me offline as we proceed along the plan's stated path. And thank you, for volunteering once again.
sincerely,
Love it. For each a colorful, detailed story, and maybe for this project we could 'embed the rules as blockquotes within the stories, or put them as appendices'... rather than the other way (rules with little embedded vignettes)... this would also support the use of art and maps as illustrations within the story, not just a 'map page' etc. - and would thus look and feel more realistic (like real handouts, etc.)... does that sound good?
It's sounds good, but it also sounds really tough to do well, in that the rules would need to retain a logical progression within the form of the stories.
Being new to doing a traveller project with others on the web, I'd prefer to keep the process as simple as possible to start with. Just my 2 cents, but it's up to Liam.
Ravs
:Edit: Mikazoid, check out a book called 'Form, Space and Order' by Professor Francis Ching. I think you'll like it.
Ravs
Being new to doing a traveller project with others on the web, I'd prefer to keep the process as simple as possible to start with. Just my 2 cents, but it's up to Liam.
Ravs
:Edit: Mikazoid, check out a book called 'Form, Space and Order' by Professor Francis Ching. I think you'll like it.
Ravs
Indeed - my opinion (and it's just that) is that it's the rules that are the easy part - the hard part (and the real value of the piece) is in the 'local flavor' we apply to each one.
Actually seems simpler to me than another rules-oriented starports tome, but I'm not trying to redirect the project, etc... I'm just putting it out there.
Actually seems simpler to me than another rules-oriented starports tome, but I'm not trying to redirect the project, etc... I'm just putting it out there.
I find that expanding the scope of a project is easy (real life, not traveller) the hard part is getting the core right. A bad foundation is harder to repair than a leaky roof.
I would, personally, feel more comfortable if I saw a rough draft of the "easy part" before we expanded the scope. Our mission has been attempted often and seldom achieved.
I approach the starport. How many berths are there? What size are they? How many are empty?
Where can I find the answer to these questions, quick and easy (the CT way)?
[EDIT: Although I do find the story idea interesting.]
I would, personally, feel more comfortable if I saw a rough draft of the "easy part" before we expanded the scope. Our mission has been attempted often and seldom achieved.
I approach the starport. How many berths are there? What size are they? How many are empty?
Where can I find the answer to these questions, quick and easy (the CT way)?
[EDIT: Although I do find the story idea interesting.]
I don't see it as a change of scope, but more a change of focus... to have all the tables and rules and explanatories, etc. as in a million other projects, but possibly to kick off each of the Tech Level sections with stories that provide lots of context for the data.
Again, just an idea around which tack to take to differentiate what we're doing from a zillion other starport projects that aimed and failed. It was just a thought and of course Liam and everyone else should feel free to disregard this idea entirely.
Again, just an idea around which tack to take to differentiate what we're doing from a zillion other starport projects that aimed and failed. It was just a thought and of course Liam and everyone else should feel free to disregard this idea entirely.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
It might be better to have two books, one with rules, one with stories etc.
I love books that reek of theme and atmosphere rather than endless tables and dry prose, and I would love ours to get there, Andrew's idea looks like a great vehicle for this, but but we need to get the basics right first.
Anyway, I'm sure that in the course of writing it, we'll see how viable it will be. Otherwise, as Andrew says, it may be a case of 2 books.
One thing I do know about large projects is that as boundless as the the enthusiasm is at the start, at some point the enthusiasm ebbs and we want to be finished or close to finished by the time we hit that stage.
Ravs
ps. My copy of Gurps Traveller Starports arrived today and I must say, it is very comprehensive.
Anyway, I'm sure that in the course of writing it, we'll see how viable it will be. Otherwise, as Andrew says, it may be a case of 2 books.
One thing I do know about large projects is that as boundless as the the enthusiasm is at the start, at some point the enthusiasm ebbs and we want to be finished or close to finished by the time we hit that stage.
Ravs
ps. My copy of Gurps Traveller Starports arrived today and I must say, it is very comprehensive.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
I'd say we go for the parts that are not yet available in other publications first, aiming for a 101 Starports type first, maybe even using already existing rules like HG or T20 that we all have or completely winging it along a few guidelines
Rules, if necessary, should come later. IMHO Starports are more about putting spotlights on certain elements rather than the most exact details. After all no novel ever described the details of a crane down to the bolts, they describe that there is a crane. We should aim for the feeling of Babylon5, Downbelow Station or DS9
Rules, if necessary, should come later. IMHO Starports are more about putting spotlights on certain elements rather than the most exact details. After all no novel ever described the details of a crane down to the bolts, they describe that there is a crane. We should aim for the feeling of Babylon5, Downbelow Station or DS9
i loosley based my highport thingy on a squardon
capacity and then added 1 or 2 extra berths for
naval or scout bases... i stuck to small sizes
just to promote my small/remote frontier feeling
i like...i used a fellows website that listed
squadrons of the major war....but then mine was
highports not starports...
anywho a squadron was about 6 ships...2 capital
and 4 or so support....for my highport i went
up to 8 berths for naval highports 6 for commerical and 7 for scout...
so maybe you can think in multiples of squadron
support...6-12-18-24 berths...
sizes:
i'll have to go look but in doing smallship
universe i made 5,000t max sizes but then
i tweaked this to reflect highport type with
A types having larger sizes and X having smaller
then i tweaked it further with have commerical
ports having middle sizes naval having larger
sizes and scouts having the smallest sizes...
I.E commericals ran to about 3,000 tons
navals 4500 tons...and scouts generally
1,500 tons or less...
used?
well in the radom ship part i had
about 1/2 "berthed", 1/4 in orbit(ready to dock)
and 1/4 in near orbit(leaving or arrving)
when it generates ship types the commerical
bases have a little of everything, the naval base
tend towards cruisers and patrol vessels
with a smattering of traders, the scout bases
had ALOT of scouts, x-tenders ,labs and corvettes
with an occasional trader or liner ...etc..etc..
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I received an e-mail tonight (11-01-2007) from a fellow gamer from one of my campaigns in a pbem Traveller scenario under another GM, and stumped him (himself an avid TU chap) when they (the players) plotted with their J2 200dt Far Tarder their own path across a subsector and said, "what lies on these 6 worlds?"
And the immediate reply from the GM was, "I don't know, I didn't expect you to go that route."
When the follow answer to this was done, it included with a basic overview based on UWP of the Govt, pop, trade code the goods & services (exports) available, size of the population, how tight the laws were or weren't--all derived from the UWP, as the adventure had listed nothing else about them. Nothing about berthing, traffic, or Starport- or Ship Yard capacity*
In only one instance was the port listed as 'orbital' (it was set in an asteroid belt B000000-D N Va Lo Ni 610 wherein our plucky merchanters HAD to stop and refuel at since there were NO gas giants, along this planned route. No brainer there, set in a belt after all, right?
For some more light on this: a war time TU period, between two hostile stellar states, in the frontier zone between what each side calls "theirs", the usual intrepid small ship players trying to make a living, avoid commerce raiders, corsairs, and damage to their only home & starship. the players have their copy of the two subsectors' map, and know which worlds the hostile enemy occupies, and which ones their side still maintains patrols over, and all the worlds between them--wherein they're trying to make ends meet, and avoid another corsair encounter (They were robbed and held at bay by a 600dt Corsair), and loss of a cargo, theft of passengers, and their lives.
Having survived the GM's "rob you another day" band, small surpise they plotted a differing course (with no deadline) to avoid another such.
Welcome to one facet of the problem we will attempt to solve.
Too often the subsector maps have no small paragraph planetary "write up", just the UWP, and the only worlds listed/ described in older adventures are just the UWP alphanumerics, meaning the GM must herd the players along the described path of worlds and no other.
But if a GM's adventure has no deadline (a long standing campaign, with mini adventures tossed in to tie the overall theme of it together), and the players' are driving the ship (not some NPC), how do you know what lies there when the players turn left and you thought they'd go right?
Do as my wife says? "Have them jump out always where you want them to go"?
We travel nowadays with GPS and deadtree maps, and know where gas stations, eateries, hostels, repair facilities (motorcycle/ disel, gas-powered,foreign-vehicle, 4wd ATV mechanics) lie, Why should the TU be any different?
My wife jokes that you can tell by the number of churches listed on a map (The kind with symbols) the number of gas stations a town has. Funny, but its close to the truth.
A person of my acquaintance since 1984 and close to Traveller since 1980 before I met him still tells me to this day, "I never understood that UWP thingy". Which tells me many things:
+Even old timers still don't get it.
+New Players don't get it.
+Game adventure writers don't fill in all the blanks.
+Too much time tends to get taken up die rolling and not roleplaying (Tell me it doesn't happen, and then this project is a moot point then).
+Most GMs and players can add & subtract; divide and multiply.
+ Traveller Universes (TU) no matter the Game mechanic (CT thru to GT & T20) boil down to the Big Ship TU (BSTU) or Small Ship TU (SSTU)viewpoint of the individual GM.
Oh, I answered in both BSTU & SSTU for the gamer btw, the six UWP's sent to me, as it was unclear if the GM was of either way of thinking.
until later,
* abbreviated to SYC
yes, USG-team there will be a quiz later
And the immediate reply from the GM was, "I don't know, I didn't expect you to go that route."
When the follow answer to this was done, it included with a basic overview based on UWP of the Govt, pop, trade code the goods & services (exports) available, size of the population, how tight the laws were or weren't--all derived from the UWP, as the adventure had listed nothing else about them. Nothing about berthing, traffic, or Starport- or Ship Yard capacity*
In only one instance was the port listed as 'orbital' (it was set in an asteroid belt B000000-D N Va Lo Ni 610 wherein our plucky merchanters HAD to stop and refuel at since there were NO gas giants, along this planned route. No brainer there, set in a belt after all, right?
For some more light on this: a war time TU period, between two hostile stellar states, in the frontier zone between what each side calls "theirs", the usual intrepid small ship players trying to make a living, avoid commerce raiders, corsairs, and damage to their only home & starship. the players have their copy of the two subsectors' map, and know which worlds the hostile enemy occupies, and which ones their side still maintains patrols over, and all the worlds between them--wherein they're trying to make ends meet, and avoid another corsair encounter (They were robbed and held at bay by a 600dt Corsair), and loss of a cargo, theft of passengers, and their lives.
Having survived the GM's "rob you another day" band, small surpise they plotted a differing course (with no deadline) to avoid another such.
Welcome to one facet of the problem we will attempt to solve.
But if a GM's adventure has no deadline (a long standing campaign, with mini adventures tossed in to tie the overall theme of it together), and the players' are driving the ship (not some NPC), how do you know what lies there when the players turn left and you thought they'd go right?
Do as my wife says? "Have them jump out always where you want them to go"?
We travel nowadays with GPS and deadtree maps, and know where gas stations, eateries, hostels, repair facilities (motorcycle/ disel, gas-powered,foreign-vehicle, 4wd ATV mechanics) lie, Why should the TU be any different?
My wife jokes that you can tell by the number of churches listed on a map (The kind with symbols) the number of gas stations a town has. Funny, but its close to the truth.
A person of my acquaintance since 1984 and close to Traveller since 1980 before I met him still tells me to this day, "I never understood that UWP thingy". Which tells me many things:
+Even old timers still don't get it.
+New Players don't get it.
+Game adventure writers don't fill in all the blanks.
+Too much time tends to get taken up die rolling and not roleplaying (Tell me it doesn't happen, and then this project is a moot point then).
+Most GMs and players can add & subtract; divide and multiply.
+ Traveller Universes (TU) no matter the Game mechanic (CT thru to GT & T20) boil down to the Big Ship TU (BSTU) or Small Ship TU (SSTU)viewpoint of the individual GM.
Oh, I answered in both BSTU & SSTU for the gamer btw, the six UWP's sent to me, as it was unclear if the GM was of either way of thinking.
until later,
* abbreviated to SYC
yes, USG-team there will be a quiz later
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Shhhh! That's the secret of doing a sequel! 
