Starship Yards and Ownership Issues

[rancke]

-As it specifies that planetary navy (no one else) may build them, I guess that it requires as many ressources that no one else is allowed to do it.

Game rules that forbids something are all alike. If it says you can't do, you can't do it, and no ifs or buts or maybes. As long as you're playing the game that the rules apply to, that is.

But game rules are simplifications of an underlying reality and they can represent several different situations in "reality". Sometimes you can't do it because if you do, the physical laws of the universe will slap you down. But it can also represent that you can do it, but people don't for various reasons (It's too expensive, the government says you can't, only a contemptible cur-dog of a man would do such a thing). Or that people don't usually do it and it's not worth while making up rules to cover the exceptions. Or even that people do it all the time but it would make the game experience worse if you did it in the game, so we'll ignore that.

My interpretation of a shipyard is not just some buildings stuffed with machinery and surrounded by a fence. I think it is the infrastructure to build components and the workforce to fit the components together. A high-population world can have dozens of shipyards, large or small.

So a Class A starport is not (necessarily) a starport with a shipyard lying next to it. It's a starport in a system with at least one shipyard.

And even that isn't enough. It has to be a shipyard that is open for business to the general public. You have to be able to go there and order a starship built for you and be able to get it in reasonable time. If the yard caters exclusively to a specific corporation or the local merchants association or is run by the planetary military, then the Scouts don't award it a Class A rating[*].

[*] I've used this in several cases to explain high-population worlds with lots of trade and Class D starports).​

-Of course the ships so built must be able to land in the planet, so, as we already discussed on other threads, htey must be streamlined (if the planet has atmosphere) and I guess there's a size limit (though we couldn't find the reference when discussed it before).

Ships can be built of the surface of a world with an atmosphere, in which case they have to be able to leave the planet. But they can also be constructed by having the components manufactured on the surface, lifted into orbit, and assembled there, in which case they can be any size and with any streamlining.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

Game rules that forbids something are all alike. If it says you can't do, you can't do it, and no ifs or buts or maybes. As long as you're playing the game that the rules apply to, that is.

But game rules are simplifications of an underlying reality and they can represent several different situations in "reality". Sometimes you can't do it because if you do, the physical laws of the universe will slap you down. But it can also represent that you can do it, but people don't for various reasons (It's too expensive, the government says you can't, only a contemptible cur-dog of a man would do such a thing). Or that people don't usually do it and it's not worth while making up rules to cover the exceptions. Or even that people do it all the time but it would make the game experience worse if you did it in the game, so we'll ignore that.

I agree with you here, it could be done, that's why is said no one else is allowed to do it and not no one else can do it. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but is not allowed to here means either by laws or by economical reason.

My interpretation of a shipyard is not just some buildings stuffed with machinery and surrounded by a fence. I think it is the infrastructure to build components and the workforce to fit the components together. A high-population world can have dozens of shipyards, large or small.

So a Class A starport is not (necessarily) a starport with a shipyard lying next to it. It's a starport in a system with at least one shipyard.

And even that isn't enough. It has to be a shipyard that is open for business to the general public. You have to be able to go there and order a starship built for you and be able to get it in reasonable time. If the yard caters exclusively to a specific corporation or the local merchants association or is run by the planetary military, then the Scouts don't award it a Class A rating[*].

[*] I've used this in several cases to explain high-population worlds with lots of trade and Class D starports).​

Also fully agree with you here (after all, as I envision most shipyards proper as orbital facilities, who needs a fence there? ).

There's even a (I believe) canonical reference I can recall in Sufren system (Diaspora 2004) where, according to Astrogator's Guide to Diapora (MT), "extensive goverment naval yard continues to produce naval ships", but was (even before HT) listed as B starport. (yes, Mike ,another DGPism :devil

Ships can be built of the surface of a world with an atmosphere, in which case they have to be able to leave the planet. But they can also be constructed by having the components manufactured on the surface, lifted into orbit, and assembled there, in which case they can be any size and with any streamlining.
Hans

I believe this would need orbital facilities that probably would raise the code of the starport and being seen as shipyard (unlesss the above case applies, of course), but that's only my oppinion, and we already discussed this before.

 

[Selandia]

So a Class A starport is not (necessarily) a starport with a shipyard lying next to it. It's a starport in a system with at least one shipyard.

And even that isn't enough. It has to be a shipyard that is open for business to the general public. You have to be able to go there and order a starship built for you and be able to get it in reasonable time. If the yard caters exclusively to a specific corporation or the local merchants association or is run by the planetary military, then the Scouts don't award it a Class A rating[*].

[*] I've used this in several cases to explain high-population worlds with lots of trade and Class D starports).​

Hans

Very good point, begging to be made in this post. Used the same explanation time and time again to explain similar oddities. "The" rated "port" represent the sum of the best facilities amongst those open to the general public.

In today's term, some A class harbor with state of the art container terminals would look like E to a "free trader" looking for cargo of opportunities, as it would not even be allowed alongside in those "private" harbor. It would be told to go to rust out of the way in "public" part of the harbor, anchored out in the outer harbor. As to the A yard, its "dry" dock may be packed solid with building orders and have little interest in using its fitting out docks for low value repairs when building schedule would allow swarm of worker to perform high value added work.

selandia

 

[Hyphen]

Page 20, chapter heading "Starship Construction", sub-heading "STARSHIP DESIGN", sub-sub-heading "Technological Level", 2nd paragraph:

"...alternatively, a planetary navy may construct ships on its planet, using local resources, even if a shipyard is not present."​

Hans

Hooray! (I knew *someone* would know what I was rambling on about - thanks Hans!)

 

[JAFARR]

THen there is the playability angle. Keep the rules simple and spend the time playing instead of nitpicking them to death. Which btw I hope is how the new T5 will be done. MT really over did some things about ship rules. We all have out own pet things we would like to change/tweek or do change in MTU, so why get exercised about it. If you don't like a rule, live with it in OTU, and deal with it your own way in YTU.

 

[rancke]

THen there is the playability angle.

The playability angle is an excellent reason to simplify "reality" for gaming purposes. It's a very poor reason to simplify "reality" for world-building purposes.


Hans