Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
While the Gauss gun is accelerating the projectile forward, it is also accelerating the rifle to the rear. Think of the projectile as the exhaust of a rocket engine, and the rifle as the engine and rocket.
Striker Combat - Armor, Penetration and Damage
- Thread starter kilemall
- Start date
While the Gauss gun is accelerating the projectile forward, it is also accelerating the rifle to the rear. Think of the projectile as the exhaust of a rocket engine, and the rifle as the engine and rocket.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Hmmm, almost sounds more like an ion engine's reaction physics then anything else.
Newton's laws of motion, actually.
3rd law specifically
Newton's Three Laws:
- Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
- The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.
- For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
If you put 2000J into the projectile, in direction A, you put 2000J into something else in direction -A.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I didn't expect ZERO recoil, just a lot lower given no gas ejection, less reaction mass (although at a higher speed) and a sliding recoil absorption mechanism (as noted, no/little feed mechanism to expend the energy on likely).
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Here are a couple of articles on the development of body armor that you might find interesting.
http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/korea/lightweight_body_armor.htm
http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/korea/armored_vest.htm
http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/korea/lightweight_body_armor.htm
http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/korea/armored_vest.htm
Nope. The felt recoil is reduced by spreading the impulse over longer time, but in null-G/µ-G, you'll be going just as fast for the same speed of bullet whether the impulse is 0.1 sec or 1.5 sec... the difference is that damage to your shoulder is based upon the energy density per unit time.
But note: Gauss Rifles actually do generate less recoil for the same speed bullet, because firearms waste upwards of 20% of the powder energy due to barrels shorter than ideal for 1 atmosphere.... you're sending that excess downrange as hot gasses in the firearms. (incredibly low mass but transsonic velocity). The GR loses its lost energy almost exclusively as heat, not momentum.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
What gauss weaponry has less of, particularly in Striker terms, is Signature. That's not to say a full auto spread from a VRF isn't going to raise a lot of dust and cause a rapid sequence of supersonic snaps, but there will be no muzzle flash, and no propellant bang.
The powder combustion usually lasts at least 3 times longer that it takes the bullet to leave a pistol, and at least 1.5 times longer for a rifle. Hence, muzzle flash and powder burns.
Which also factors into a recoil profile.
A Gauss Rifle will have lower total recoil, but will produce it in a fraction of a second - making a sharp, short impulse, which may be attenuated mechanically into a medium force mid-length impulse by springs or compression cylinders and progressive give.
A firearm rifle starts with a sharp, short impulse, too, but it drops a bit as the bullet leaves, and is longer than the one in the Gauss Rifle - often 2 or more times the length of a Gauss Rifle's. Adding muzzle brakes (which redirect propellant gasses away from pushing backward and often angle the jet backward to "pull the weapon forward", can reduce the total impulse to the butt, and compression cylinders, recoil operated actions, and springs can lengthen the impulse out.
The longer the impulse duration for a given energy, the less damage does to the firer and less torque it has. (But in 0-G vacuum, it still spins you just as fast...)
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Aramis, I may not have had the forces defined exactly correctly, but that's what I was getting at, there is a lot of gas force providing kick.
As to Leitz's point, I am concerned with the time loss aspect of recoil re: putting the weapon back on target along with bulkiness as a time factor in initiative. I'm assuming the shooter compensates faster and faster as they increase skill.
I wasn't looking to quantify the zero-G effect, if anything I would tend to multiply the initiative loss of recoil and having Zero-G combat skill be a divisor without getting into tumble rolls.
As to Leitz's point, I am concerned with the time loss aspect of recoil re: putting the weapon back on target along with bulkiness as a time factor in initiative. I'm assuming the shooter compensates faster and faster as they increase skill.
I wasn't looking to quantify the zero-G effect, if anything I would tend to multiply the initiative loss of recoil and having Zero-G combat skill be a divisor without getting into tumble rolls.
The skill isn't to force the gun back on target, too much recoil. Experienced shooters have just enough muscle tension that the gun falls back into place. It's the gun's own recoil and the muscle tension that control that. Pretty fun to watch; I've seen guys who can shoot very fast.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
However it is done, there should be a speed difference between an ACR-1 and an ACR-4, and a Snub Pistol-4 vs. ACR-4.
And lasers being VERY attractive since they stay on target, independent of environmental considerations.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Interesting, I did not know we deployed light body armor so heavily so early in Korea.
I've seen the heavy steel armor sets from WWI and of course most Americans are familiar with Vietnam and Desert Storm armor.
I'm conceiving of CES armor nowadays as more a kinetic armor suit made of an advanced version of this stuff-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86qCsUpqYQk
Combat armor would then be plate overlaying the kinetic armor, which helps explain how you get that jump up in armor value without much weight increase.
And in thinking about how future armor will end any chance of melee weapon penetration, got to thinking about what Battle Dress power combined with the projected Striker material strength does to penetration value.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
That is correct. I played around with the possible recoil for the plasma and fusion guns, aside from waving off the radiation effects on the firer, and figured them to about like firing a French 75mm from your shoulder. Makes a .600 Nitro Express double firing both barrels at once look like a .22.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Eh, still wrestling with mixing melee and guns, may just back off to a two simultaneous actions per 15 seconds deal.
Decided on adding -2 to hit under fire to bring the average to hit in line with 1000s of LE combat to hit results, which also nicely puts in a form of suppressive fire.
Meantime, went ahead with the Striker sliding damage table as follows-
Each specific result is a hit on a body part, and corresponds to the previous light/serious/critical wound structure noted before (1D/3D/5D with mods).
In other words, where you hit determines damage, not what you hit with.
Penetration still works, but it doesn't increase the damage past neutralizing the armor protection.
2-3 Slight Wound (cut, no die)
4 Distant Arm/Minor
5 Distant Leg/Minor
6 Facing Arm/Minor
7 Facing Leg/Minor
8 Hip/Serious
9 Spine/Serious
10 Abdomen/Serious
11 Chest/Serious
12 Head-Neck/Critical
Damage is 1D Minor/3D Serious/5D Critical +1D Hollow Point +1D HE +1D Energy Weapon (plasma/fusion guns are both HE and Energy Weapon).
Ex. a Rifle with Pen 3 hits 9 (Spine), target wearing cloth, 3-5 is -2 to damage, so Minor damage to the spine (1D).
Only plus to the table is applying skill to damage rather then to hit.
Ex. a sniper with Laser Rifle-4 uses all 4 skill points to increase damage. A successful hit strikes 8 (Hip), but the +4 makes it a Head shot- no Reflec or helmet, so that is 6D of damage.
The beauty of using this is being able to have differing armor levels on chest, head/helmet, legs and arms.
Also, the target character's cover can be determined including exposed parts, if the hit strikes a part that is behind cover, then it is readily applied.
I seriously considered setting up specific damage sequences for each body part (ex. DEX first for head, STR or DEX for arms, END for abdomen, etc.) but it is just too much overhead for not enough play gain.
The QND Medical Drama system was designed with this in mind- in combination, it should be easy to describe wounds and trauma situations.
Decided on adding -2 to hit under fire to bring the average to hit in line with 1000s of LE combat to hit results, which also nicely puts in a form of suppressive fire.
Meantime, went ahead with the Striker sliding damage table as follows-
Each specific result is a hit on a body part, and corresponds to the previous light/serious/critical wound structure noted before (1D/3D/5D with mods).
In other words, where you hit determines damage, not what you hit with.
Penetration still works, but it doesn't increase the damage past neutralizing the armor protection.
2-3 Slight Wound (cut, no die)
4 Distant Arm/Minor
5 Distant Leg/Minor
6 Facing Arm/Minor
7 Facing Leg/Minor
8 Hip/Serious
9 Spine/Serious
10 Abdomen/Serious
11 Chest/Serious
12 Head-Neck/Critical
Damage is 1D Minor/3D Serious/5D Critical +1D Hollow Point +1D HE +1D Energy Weapon (plasma/fusion guns are both HE and Energy Weapon).
Ex. a Rifle with Pen 3 hits 9 (Spine), target wearing cloth, 3-5 is -2 to damage, so Minor damage to the spine (1D).
Only plus to the table is applying skill to damage rather then to hit.
Ex. a sniper with Laser Rifle-4 uses all 4 skill points to increase damage. A successful hit strikes 8 (Hip), but the +4 makes it a Head shot- no Reflec or helmet, so that is 6D of damage.
The beauty of using this is being able to have differing armor levels on chest, head/helmet, legs and arms.
Also, the target character's cover can be determined including exposed parts, if the hit strikes a part that is behind cover, then it is readily applied.
I seriously considered setting up specific damage sequences for each body part (ex. DEX first for head, STR or DEX for arms, END for abdomen, etc.) but it is just too much overhead for not enough play gain.
The QND Medical Drama system was designed with this in mind- in combination, it should be easy to describe wounds and trauma situations.
The problem will be that a result of 6, 7 or 8 will be far and away the most common (44% of the time) which means lots of shots to the facing arm, facing leg or hip and far fewer (14%) shots to the chest or abdomen - center of mass.
It seems to add a form of unrealistic, realism (unless you have some data that I don't).
It seems to add a form of unrealistic, realism (unless you have some data that I don't).
Sounds a bit like the target profile for a duelist stance: edge on to the shooter, arm protecting the chest.
Not everyone's first choice, I'm thinking.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Note that in kile's system skill increases the roll so the results are shifted upwards.
It's a novel system but is stretching a single roll of 2d6 to its limit.
I have toyed with hit location systems in the past, but over the years I have moved towards reducing the number of rolls during combat to a minimum.
It's a novel system but is stretching a single roll of 2d6 to its limit.
I have toyed with hit location systems in the past, but over the years I have moved towards reducing the number of rolls during combat to a minimum.
