T5 MAJOR RACES: ALIENS 1 - 8

[Spaceresearcher]

A thread for those who don't want to read the rubbish word 'Sophonts', 'Sophants', 'Sophents' or 'Sophints', every time they discuss races(and I promise not to type the word in this thread again). All of them rubbish non English made up words that are trying to replace the beautiful word that is ALIEN!!!!!

So that would be"
Traveller5 Alien Module 1: Aslan [Aslan, Classic Era] 5.44 3288
Traveller5 Alien Module 2: K'kree [Classic Era, K'kree] 5.34 3934
Traveller5 Alien Module 3: Vargr [Classic Era, Vargr ] 5.47 3200
Traveller5 Alien Module 4: Zhodani [Classic Era, Zhodani] 5.39 3568
Traveller5 Alien Module 5: Droyne [Classic Era, Droyne] 5.39 3561
Traveller5 Alien Module 6: Solomani [Classic Era, Solomani] 5.49 3118
Traveller5 Alien Module 7: Hivers [Classic Era, Hivers] 5.47 3210
Traveller5 Alien Module 8: Darrians

Going by good ol Classic Traveller in the days when Aliens were Aliens (including humanity really). Well to me they still are and I hope so for many other fellow Travellers too.

I'm curious to see if there will be individual books or if the major races will all be done in one mammoth volume to rival the rule book.

 

[David Johansen]

I'd expect the Mongoose versions are the only ones we'll get for now.

 

[yamsi3467]

For the record, "sophont" is an English word derived from the Greek word "sophos". It is not "made up". You hear it commonly in many science fiction areas.

Yamsi

 

[robject]

Traveller has nostalgic value for many of us.

More to the point, posting about it is good therapy for us.

The OP is not a challenge to T5.

 

[robject]

Now on to the meat of the post.

Traveller5 Alien Module 1: Aslan [Aslan, Classic Era] 5.44 3288
Traveller5 Alien Module 2: K'kree [Classic Era, K'kree] 5.34 3934
Traveller5 Alien Module 3: Vargr [Classic Era, Vargr ] 5.47 3200
Traveller5 Alien Module 4: Zhodani [Classic Era, Zhodani] 5.39 3568
Traveller5 Alien Module 5: Droyne [Classic Era, Droyne] 5.39 3561
Traveller5 Alien Module 6: Solomani [Classic Era, Solomani] 5.49 3118
Traveller5 Alien Module 7: Hivers [Classic Era, Hivers] 5.47 3210
Traveller5 Alien Module 8: Darrians

I'm curious to see if there will be individual books or if the major races will all be done in one mammoth volume to rival the rule book.

Unsure.

I see two solutions for two levels of support.

Accessible level: supplements for the CT Alien Modules on DriveThruPRG, available separately, consisting of a few pages of PDF text at some low price:

• content of the T5 Sophont Gen chapter (sorry, using the official name, have to use the S-word there) for the alien
• page references to the T5 Core Book for career resolution
• references to rules updates, as they're encountered in the book
• updates for the starships
• an index or TOC to the original Alien Module itself.

Then, edit the supplements directly into the Alien Modules and make the set of 8 PDFs available for low cost, but not as low as the supplement.


Everything non-rules-based would stay the same. Right?

Note that progress has already been made on the character cards and starships for aliens. So really, all you need are those data, and the original CT modules.

Right?

 

[yamsi3467]

Traveller has nostalgic value for many of us.

More to the point, posting about it is good therapy for us.

The OP is not a challenge to T5.

Rob,

It wasn't my intent to appear that I felt the original OP was challenging T5. I was just pointing out that sophont is a well known sci-ft term.

Yamsi

 

[aramis]

For the record, "sophont" is an English word derived from the Greek word "sophos". It is not "made up". You hear it commonly in many science fiction areas.

Yamsi

The word was coined, derived from the greek sophos (wisdom), but was not in use prior to being coined in 1965 or 1966 by Karen Anderson, wife of Poul Anderson; Poul was the first in print use of the term in one of his 1966 works.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

For the record, "sophont" is an English word derived from the Greek word "sophos". It is not "made up". You hear it commonly in many science fiction areas.

Yamsi

For the record it IS a made up word by Poul Andersons wife Karen Anderson in 1966 were it was first used.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sophont

If it has made it into English dictionaries you can credit it to the Andersons. The first usage was as in a science fiction novel. Sophos is different to [That word I've promised not to mention again]. Sophos is as you have stated a 'GREEK' word, it is not an English word and in Greek it essentially means wise. Nothing to do with Aliens.

[That word I've promised not to mention again], it completely fictional. Any incorporation into English dictionaries is purely coincidental and of the same merit is say 'The Klingon Dictionary' of words, eg it's all made up.

Please fellow Travellers, don't make me adopt this crappy word.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

The word was coined, derived from the greek sophos (wisdom), but was not in use prior to being coined in 1965 or 1966 by Karen Anderson, wife of Poul Anderson; Poul was the first in print use of the term in one of his 1966 works.

Precisely Aramis. Well put.

 

[Bloo]

All words are made up.

 

[Shonner]

For the record, "sophont" is an English word derived from the Greek word "sophos". It is not "made up". You hear it commonly in many science fiction areas.

Yamsi

Disagree. The word is barely a blip on search engines. Webster has not heard of the word. "Sycophant" is a much more common word that no one uses all that much. But it's a word.

Is there a dictionary for coined words that never caught on?

 

[robject]

Disagree. The word is barely a blip on search engines. Webster has not heard of the word. "Sycophant" is a much more common word that no one uses all that much. But it's a word.

Is there a dictionary for coined words that never caught on?

Niche.

It's an unambiguous term.

Looks like most of the results for searching on "low berth" are Traveller-related. It's a niche SF term. Does it matter?

 

[SpaceBadger]

A thread for those who don't want to read the rubbish word 'Sophonts', 'Sophants', 'Sophents' or 'Sophints', every time they discuss races(and I promise not to type the word in this thread again). All of them rubbish non English made up words that are trying to replace the beautiful word that is ALIEN!!!!!

Depends on how you want to use it, and what you are trying to describe. If you refer to "sophonts" or "sapient beings" you are describing a kind of life form that you recognize as being an intelligent, thinking creature, not a mere animal. The term "alien" means "not a native" or "not from around here". If you go to the Aslan homeworld and refer to them as aliens, you are not using the term correctly.

If you want a word to describe thinking beings (as opposed to animals) then something like "sophont" or "sapient" is much more useful than "alien".

 

[Murdoc]

From a purely subjective, aesthetic perspective, I have to say that I prefer "alien", just because of all the emotional baggage that comes with it (like watching the movie of that name at age 7 in a drive-in theatre with people I didn't know and afraid the RCMP was going to arrest us all for taking kids into an R-rated movie, talk about scary! ). Still, I understand Marc's reason for wanting to use another word, and sophont is as good as any as far as I can see. It gives Traveller less of a humanocentric feel to it, thus being more cosmopolitan, tolerant of alien rights and such. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this last part right though. :/ Basically I can see it being used in-game more than "alien". Because if you use alien, then you start getting "No, you're the alien hew-mon!" How many times have we seen this in SF?

"But you look human!"
"No, you look Time-Lord."

Just my take anyway. Call it what you like. I'm still gagging on "Beastpower". :file_28:

 

[Bloo]

Just my take anyway. Call it what you like. I'm still gagging on "Beastpower". :file_28:

Why? Have you not heard of the Beast from the Generica System? It is exactly the size of one displacement ton and weighs 1000 kg (at 1.0 gravity). It moves at an average speed of 5 kph.

 

[yamsi3467]

All words are made up.

Bloo,

Good point.

Spaceresearcher, when I said that it wasn't made up, I meant that it does have an origin in science fiction. It has long been used by science fiction writers. I like that T5 uses it because "alien" all depends on point of view. We think all non-humans are aliens. Non-humans think we are aliens. Sophont takes out the point of view. I can't recall if it made it into the final, but if I remember in the Beta drafts this is pointed out.

As for it not being "English", many English words have non-English origins. Although sophont is not used in common conversational English, it is used by writers. Your Klingon example doesn't hold water. Klingon is an ENTIRELY made up language that has no roots in reality whatsoever. Sophont (boy, I love that word) is derived from a Greek word. That makes it infinitely more real than Klingon.

After I posted this, I realized I missed a lot of post to this thread. You know what? To each his own.

'Nuff said. Peace out.

Yamsi

 

[rancke]

I wonder why the Andersons coined 'sophont' instead of 'sapient'? I would have thought that the association with our (humanity's) taxonomic name would make it an obvious word to coin for intelligent beings of all species.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Spaceresearcher, when I said that it wasn't made up, I meant that it does have an origin in science fiction. It has long been used by science fiction writers. I like that T5 uses it because "alien" all depends on point of view. We think all non-humans are aliens. Non-humans think we are aliens. Sophont takes out the point of view. I can't recall if it made it into the final, but if I remember in the Beta drafts this is pointed out.

Since Sci-Fi as a genre (albeit not as a named genre) has a now 150+ year history (Verne started writing modernish sci-fi in the 1850's)... and the term really didn't get picked up much until the 1980's; the only places I have seen the term actually used are in Traveller, and discussions about traveller or derivative games.

It is still not a common term; it is still jargon.

 

[Bloo]

As for it not being "English", many English words have non-English origins.

Most English words are not English origin. English is a really patois different languages, like the Borg, it can, will, and does take useful bits from other languages, and itself, to create new things. (And from what I understand, this phenomenon is beginning to infect spoken Spanish in North America).

When one person makes up a word, it's just noise (or James Joyce).
When a second person agrees on the meaning of a word, it's a code.
When X more agree, it is jargon.
And so on until arbitrary entities decide for their own purposes what is acceptable.

Dictionaries do not define all words. They are snapshots of words and meanings that have been used in the past (even if recent) that the recorder is aware of (thus limited by exposure, perception, and awareness). They are not prescriptive, though every person and institution can make their own policy on what words are acceptable.

All language is abstraction from the phenomenon of the universe. Refer to Alfred Korzybski's work for additional info if you're interested in what I think is basically an application of he uncertainty principle to language and thought.

If you don't like "sophont", use whatever you like. Don't expect perfect understanding from those that do without context.

 

[robject]

Can We Redirect This Thread?

I can't see a whole set of new Alien Modules for Traveller5. The aliens have been done to death; we have plenty of copy on them.

But FEE could do both of these:

1. Since the color text doesn't have to change, release PDFs with Traveller5 updates to the Classic Traveller modules, one separate PDF for the Big Five sophonts if there is significant amounts of material, or one PDF bundle for the Big Five.

2. Since FFE owns the originals, perhaps in editable format, edit the updates directly into the CT alien modules and release those as Traveller5 PDFs.

#1 is cheaper
#2 is for those who want it "all together"


And, FFE could release a new alien module to compile together minor sophonts from JTAS issues. Ael Yael, Dandelions, Shriekers, etc.