T5 MAJOR RACES: ALIENS 1 - 8

[GypsyComet]

Most English words are not English origin. English is a really patois different languages, like the Borg, it can, will, and does take useful bits from other languages, and itself, to create new things.

The Mark Twain line comes to mind.

As for new Alien Modules for T5, I think the modern electronic age allows for either of Rob's options, but if we're talking print product I would probably not use the rather sparse CT books as the text.

 

[aramis]

I can't see a whole set of new Alien Modules for Traveller5. The aliens have been done to death; we have plenty of copy on them.

But FEE could do both of these:

1. Since the color text doesn't have to change, release PDFs with Traveller5 updates to the Classic Traveller modules, one separate PDF for the Big Five sophonts if there is significant amounts of material, or one PDF bundle for the Big Five.

2. Since FFE owns the originals, perhaps in editable format, edit the updates directly into the CT alien modules and release those as Traveller5 PDFs.

#1 is cheaper
#2 is for those who want it "all together"


And, FFE could release a new alien module to compile together minor sophonts from JTAS issues. Ael Yael, Dandelions, Shriekers, etc.

Editable format? most likely not - except maybe TNE's AOTRv1:H&I.
The CT modules are from the era of layout boards and linotype machines. GDW was ahead of the powercurve, having a linotype machine... but any such originals are likely no longer reliably readable, and the software to read the formats likely absent.

And, unless Marc has purchased the DGP rights, the Vilani write up is nowhere in canon.

CT had 8 Alien volumes (Aslan, K'Kree, Droyne, Solomani, Vargr, Hiver, Zhodani, Daryen), plus another 10-20 in various magazine writeups and adventures (from memory: Newt, Virush, Ael Yael, Dolphin, Sword Worlder, grugach Kar, Jagd-il-Jigd, Cymbeline Chips (A13), Shriekers (A10))... several more got little more than a paragraph or two (Dandies, Eiboken).

MT only rehashed 3 of the 8 (Solomani, Vargr, Aslan), added the Vilani in major level, and added another 5-10 magazine article aliens (of which I remember only the Jonkereen); the rehashes were third party, as were the vilani, and some of the magazine aliens.

TNE only had 5 treatments to my knowledge, 1 new significant (Ithklur), 1 rehashed major work (hiver), and capsule conversions for several prior ones (in Reg. SB), and a 3rd party significant minor write up in glorious detail (Vegan) in Traveller Chronicle.

T4 had the Aliens Archive - 20 some, of which 5 or so were rehash, and all of which were only magazine article level of quality.

T20 had capsules for the majors from CT, and added capsules for 5 of the lesser CT aliens, plus added the Ursa. Stats incompatible, tho.

GT has dozens of aliens - but magazine level detail for the majors, and incompatible stats and methods. Most are capsule level. But they are SJG's, not FFE's.

Only CT, MT, and TNE had good detail levels.

MGT, like GT, isn't Marc's. And the alien modules are well done, tho' not well done as canon.

So, really, the aliens haven't been done to death. Most of the 40 or so known Alien Races have only a page or three.

 

[rancke]

So, really, the aliens haven't been done to death. Most of the 40 or so known Alien Races have only a page or three.

And there's plenty of room for new aliens. There are 100 minor non-human races in the Imperium and 400 in Charted Space. Plus a dozen or two minor human races that haven't been mentioned and more that haven't been properly described.


Hans

 

[Jazzlvraz]

And there's plenty of room for new aliens.

If nothing else, the NIL calculation on p.436 hands out huge numbers of Natives, Exotics, Extincts, and Vanisheds in any given sector, most of which, it can be argued, might be "new". Since NIL's not recorded in Traveller Map, many Referees won't have any Canon to refer to, and can thus create their own.

 

[GypsyComet]

T4 had the Aliens Archive - 20 some, of which 5 or so were rehash, and all of which were only magazine article level of quality.

Worse than that. The Aliens Archive was full of bad comic book tropes, only one previous race (Bwaps), and done under the T4 "counter Canon" assumptions. While there are one or two I'd love to rescue from that book, it is largely a loss.

MT did sneak in a re-visit of the K'kree at the "magazine level" in MTJ4, which *is* Marc's.

The text of Mongoose's aliens books does go past Marc. The art may not be Canon, but the text is as close as we're likely to get.

 

[taustin]

As for it not being "English", many English words have non-English origins.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. "

James D. Nicoll, rec.arts.sf-lovers, 1990.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Most English words are not English origin. English is a really patois different languages, like the Borg, it can, will, and does take useful bits from other languages, and itself, to create new things. (And from what I understand, this phenomenon is beginning to infect spoken Spanish in North America).

When one person makes up a word, it's just noise (or James Joyce).
When a second person agrees on the meaning of a word, it's a code.
When X more agree, it is jargon.
And so on until arbitrary entities decide for their own purposes what is acceptable.

Dictionaries do not define all words. They are snapshots of words and meanings that have been used in the past (even if recent) that the recorder is aware of (thus limited by exposure, perception, and awareness). They are not prescriptive, though every person and institution can make their own policy on what words are acceptable.

All language is abstraction from the phenomenon of the universe. Refer to Alfred Korzybski's work for additional info if you're interested in what I think is basically an application of he uncertainty principle to language and thought.

If you don't like "sophont", use whatever you like. Don't expect perfect understanding from those that do without context.

Well Bloo we either draw lines on some words or anything goes and chaos reins. It's like sticking to a rule system. If all we do is break the rules all the time, chaos kicks in and threatens to ruin the system. As others have said, each and to there own.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Getting back on topic

Anyway, the point of this thread is not to debate the word I can't stand but others may like, it's to discuss Aliens in Traveller. As where all humans(correct?) all other races are aliens to us. Simple really.

What Traveller Aliens allow us to do, is imagine where those aliens and think as they would. Personally I think this is a great idea for spicing up games.

Which races beyond the main 8, do fellow Travellers feel should become part of the core Aliens books?

Should there be new star faring races introduced in T5?

Could the line between interstellar and non-interstellar races be blurred because in Traveller, there is no prime directive, hence anything goes and influences on other races could be taken into account with it's effect on there development.

These and a host of other exciting possibilities exist with the new T5 Traveller system. Then with the hybrid race rules, the blurring of the line becomes even more interesting.

 

[rancke]

Which races beyond the main 8, do fellow Travellers feel should become part of the core Aliens books?

Bwaps first of all. Well, maybe third.

Imperials (Even though technically not a race; it's the most widespread ethnic group of all).

Vilani, of course.

Should there be new star faring races introduced in T5?

Could the line between interstellar and non-interstellar races be blurred because in Traveller, there is no prime directive, hence anything goes and influences on other races could be taken into account with it's effect on there development.

Unless somehow physically or psychologically unsuited for interstellar travel or confined to interdicted worlds, any minor race, human or non-human, is an interstellar race. Except in the aforementioned cases that's what being a minor race is all about: someone else has provided them with the jump drive.


Hans

 

[Shonner]

If you don't like "sophont", use whatever you like. Don't expect perfect understanding from those that do without context.

The term "alien" has been approved for use by Americans for Americans for decades.

If a movie were to come out this year called "Sophont", only a handful of people would know the word/meaning right away. And every single person, even those that know what "sophont" means, will be telling people "It's a movie about aliens that come to Earth blah blah."

And no one is going to be saying, "I think so-and-so actor had the best sophont role in the film."

ADDED:
Spell check hates "sophont".

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Bwaps first of all. Well, maybe third.

Imperials (Even though technically not a race; it's the most widespread ethnic group of all).

Vilani, of course.

The Bwaps seem to be rather popular. I'd like to see the Ael Yael become a major race, there form suggests that there possibly an Ancients experimentation race. They even had there own miniature in the Grenadier Alien Mercenaries box set. Add to that, I just love species with wings.(Well flys and mosquitos I'd probably leave out, but most species with wings).
While were on that box set how about:
The Centaur and The Virushi. (The poor Virushi, every time I see one of those gag cartoons like "When you feel like your useless and small, imagine a T-Rex making the bed". There like Dinosaurs that evolved. However, who wouldn't want 4 arms?).

I'm hoping for a really nice new Hiver write up, that's a fascinating race. Well thought up.


Unless somehow physically or psychologically unsuited for interstellar travel or confined to interdicted worlds, any minor race, human or non-human, is an interstellar race. Except in the aforementioned cases that's what being a minor race is all about: someone else has provided them with the jump drive.


Hans

I guess your right. What I was suggesting were races which haven't achieved interstellar travel on there own. Eg, they have spacecraft, but nothing with jump technology. Mainly the incorporation of some of the classic non jump capable races into the interstellar community would be that in all the time that has gone down with the hundreds of years from classic, through TNE, that's a lot of time. Hence by now they may very well have progressed. Add to that, even Solomani's live on some worlds that do not have jump technology facilities(EG the low tech level worlds correct?).

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Bwaps first of all. Well, maybe third.

Imperials (Even though technically not a race; it's the most widespread ethnic group of all).

Vilani, of course.


Unless somehow physically or psychologically unsuited for interstellar travel or confined to interdicted worlds, any minor race, human or non-human, is an interstellar race. Except in the aforementioned cases that's what being a minor race is all about: someone else has provided them with the jump drive.


Hans

The Bwaps seem to be rather popular. I'd like to see the Ael Yael become a major race, there form suggests that there possibly an Ancients experimentation race. They even had there own miniature in the Grenadier Alien Mercenaries box set. Add to that, I just love species with wings.(Well flys and mosquitos I'd probably leave out, but most species with wings).
While were on that box set how about:
The Centaur and The Virushi. (The poor Virushi, every time I see one of those gag cartoons like "When you feel like your useless and small, imagine a T-Rex making the bed". There like Dinosaurs that evolved. However, who wouldn't want 4 arms?).

I'm hoping for a really nice new Hiver write up, that's a fascinating race. Well thought up.

 

[Shonner]

I'm hoping for a really nice new Hiver write up, that's a fascinating race. Well thought up.

I've been sculpting one. But haven't finished it because I'm not sure which version of Hiver to finalize it from. It's been drawn so many ways now.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

I've been sculpting one. But haven't finished it because I'm not sure which version of Hiver to finalize it from. It's been drawn so many ways now.

Utterly fascinating. I hope to read it one day. Do you think it could become a Kickstarter project?

 

[Shonner]

Utterly fascinating. I hope to read it one day. Do you think it could become a Kickstarter project?

??? It's a 3D model of a Hiver. I had a video of it on YouTube. But I just deleted all my Traveller videos from there.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

Editable format? most likely not - except maybe TNE's AOTRv1:H&I.
The CT modules are from the era of layout boards and linotype machines. GDW was ahead of the powercurve, having a linotype machine... but any such originals are likely no longer reliably readable, and the software to read the formats likely absent.

And, unless Marc has purchased the DGP rights, the Vilani write up is nowhere in canon.

CT had 8 Alien volumes (Aslan, K'Kree, Droyne, Solomani, Vargr, Hiver, Zhodani, Daryen), plus another 10-20 in various magazine writeups and adventures (from memory: Newt, Virush, Ael Yael, Dolphin, Sword Worlder, grugach Kar, Jagd-il-Jigd, Cymbeline Chips (A13), Shriekers (A10))... several more got little more than a paragraph or two (Dandies, Eiboken).

MT only rehashed 3 of the 8 (Solomani, Vargr, Aslan), added the Vilani in major level, and added another 5-10 magazine article aliens (of which I remember only the Jonkereen); the rehashes were third party, as were the vilani, and some of the magazine aliens.

TNE only had 5 treatments to my knowledge, 1 new significant (Ithklur), 1 rehashed major work (hiver), and capsule conversions for several prior ones (in Reg. SB), and a 3rd party significant minor write up in glorious detail (Vegan) in Traveller Chronicle.

T4 had the Aliens Archive - 20 some, of which 5 or so were rehash, and all of which were only magazine article level of quality.

T20 had capsules for the majors from CT, and added capsules for 5 of the lesser CT aliens, plus added the Ursa. Stats incompatible, tho.

GT has dozens of aliens - but magazine level detail for the majors, and incompatible stats and methods. Most are capsule level. But they are SJG's, not FFE's.

Only CT, MT, and TNE had good detail levels.

MGT, like GT, isn't Marc's. And the alien modules are well done, tho' not well done as canon.

So, really, the aliens haven't been done to death. Most of the 40 or so known Alien Races have only a page or three.

Absolutely Aramis, that's exactly what I'm finding. Each edition has had promises of putting together a more detailed and complete Alien module set but each time, it's been thwarted by the dollar etc(just take a look at the first aliens book that can now be found on the T4 CDROM from FFE. That is simply terrific and more inline with great publications like the now hard to find Digest Group works(another company that stopped after just 4 races).

There have been other races since the main 8 that's for sure and it would be so nice to have an encyclopedia or data bank if you will of them all together for the first time. Classic touches on them but other editions of Traveller have shown the great detail and wealth of information that has helped ot not only detail but highlight the terrific aspects of these races. With what I've seen from T5, a canon set is deffinately needed.

There's always been good data over the years from what I've read, but it's never received a complete overhaul since the original classic.(Check out aramis's list there) So it's long overdue and would be most welcome.

In a way it's kind of sad because these are terrific alien modules, games like AD&D for example have always had complete catalogues(monster manuals etc). Sadly Traveller seems to head towards that goal and get's the plug pulled. I'm hoping that with T5, an official canon update of the complete aliens and hopefully a lot more can finally come to fruition.

Seriously, if you check out the T4 aliens 1 book, it was looking amazing, but sadly once again there's only a few races in that book (you got Aslan, Vargr and Graytch(very cool indeed)). It looked like they were obviously planning on more volumes until the plug was pulled on T4.

So here's to ALL the races being brought up to date and brought together for T5.

 

[GypsyComet]

Seriously, if you check out the T4 aliens 1 book, it was looking amazing, but sadly once again there's only a few races in that book (you got Aslan, Vargr and Graytch(very cool indeed)). It looked like they were obviously planning on more volumes until the plug was pulled on T4.

You do realize the plug was pulled because the patient was both terminal and dancing around the room like a loon, right?

T4 Aliens Archive was not a bad format, but was written a bit too far to the "Space Pulp" end of the spectrum compared to *all* of the three previous editions. The cliches were thick, the writing purple, and that one little detail important to the long-term setting, LOCATION, was absent from all but one and wrong for that one. The comic book art didn't help.

Aliens Archive also didn't have any of the Majors in it, and only one race from before T4.

 

[robject]

I agree that there is plenty of material to be written about the minor aliens.

Major Aliens

However, I am reluctant to think of another Aslan book, for example. Maybe I am wrong, though. Many of you know, so tell me: what content is missing from the Alien Module books themselves?

I consider most of that material just fine, and perfectly usable for Traveller5 (or Mongoose, or Mega, or you-name-it). There are mechanics differences, but for Traveller5 that is not a problem at all: the core T5 book has all the mechanics needed for alien modules.

Minor Aliens

I think combined books is the right way to go here, with 4 aliens sharing a 100 page book, perhaps.

The thing is, I have interest in some of the minor aliens, but by no means all. That means I don't really care so much for 100 pages on the Bwaps, for instance. And your mileage WILL vary, and that's the issue. There are too many to go around.

But even for the races I like, I still don't know if I want 100 pages. For example, the fun-loving Shrieker Empire. Do I really want 100 pages of Shrieker infomercial? One page gives me enough data to generate characters and run them through a career. Another page or two tells me unique features of them, so I know what to expect long-term. Another few pages give me enough cultural and historical background to tell me that, yes, they're medieval with a couple of past empires under their belt. 90 pages to go. I guess I'll have to have a planetary survey of 567-907. That would be fun... you could run infantry campaigns, city-state wars, sea battles, real bronze-age swashbuckling near-Conanic fun. And you can have Raiders of the Lost Ark, with the crumbling ruins of the past civilizations and superstitious histories. And you can have Sword World smugglers stealing Denuli crystals from the Valley of Memories. And Zhodani intrigue going on in the neighborhood.

But, now we've left the Shriekers, see, and the book has become something else. It's not quite an aliens book anymore. It's a world survey. And do we want a 100-page survey for every world in the Spinward Marches? (The answer is NO, isn't it?)

Granted, I wanted to but haven't read GURPS:Traveller's take on them, and they managed to churn out a book. I really need to read it.

But, you get my drift. There is such a thing as too much data.

 

[aramis]

two to three paragraphs is too little for anything but gross trope abuse... that was obvious from Adv. 0's treatment on the Zhodani.

Half a letter-sized page was too little for the Aslan. (Also A0).

Two pages is usually too little - Aliens Archive for T4 established that.

100 pages is probably too much for all but the majors.

Cryton and I have a 30 page volume on a joke... the Svarvatti. Essentially, space drow in the same way daryen are space elves.

The minimum for a minor race should be 2-3 letter sized pages. Anything less is likely caricature, not portrait. Only the majors should really go above 10, tho'. You can fit an adequate sketch into 10 well-written pages.

If alternate character gen is needed, it's another 5-15 pages right there, edition dependent.

 

[rancke]

Cryton and I have a 30 page volume on a joke... the Svarvatti. Essentially, space drow in the same way Darrians are space elves.

So not space drow at all, then?


Hans