Correct. An operation under anesthetic is in no way the same as the two methods you & I are talking about.
The Frozen Watch - how long?
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Correct. An operation under anesthetic is in no way the same as the two methods you & I are talking about.
I know it's quite different, but I guess the subjective sensation the person put in low berth experiments may be quite parallel, just a lapse in time.
Well, this is where I am beginning to sense handwavium. I can accept that we can freeze something and retrieve it after short periods of time. But, I CanNOT accept that we will have the capacity stop all atomic/molecular motion. Just slow it to infinitesimal degree that it would appear stopped.
Sorry just a Hard SF guy.
That's the problem, then. Traveller isn't Hard SF, it's a hard SF shell with a soft crunchy RPG filling.
Hans
And failing your basic thermodynamics 101!
Cold is the absence of molecular motion.
Heat is the presence of molecular motion.
Cryoberths are reducing the chemicals below their reactive energy states.
In any case, tho', the lack of brain chemical reactions in a cryogenically frozen subject has been established scientifically since 1981. There's also no brain electrical activity in a frozen beagle... and he was revived repeatedly. Real world says it's doable. (Science '81 magazine, IIRC)
Combine a cryoberth and a nuclear damper, and you should get a person frozen to a point where they are stable long term, even from significant radioactive decay
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
That's sig line worthy Hans
I like it! (might play with the wording a little...)Traveller - A delicious treat of Soft Sci-Fi filling in a crunchy Hard SF coating.
Available at fine RPG confectioneries throughout the galaxy.
Even at that level, say 1,000,000:1 There will be no problems like the type you brought up.
Hard sci-fi
That's sig line worthy Hans
Traveller - A delicious treat of Soft Sci-Fi filling in a crunchy Hard SF coating.
Available at fine RPG confectioneries throughout the galaxy.
Heretics the lot of you...careful before I go the way calling for Luther.
Aramis, ok, I grant you the 2nd law of thermodynamics but again I would say slow not stop even with dampening tech. Even if it worked on a dog, I am not so certain about the human mind over much longer periods of time. For I skimmed through said article today and found that the time variable being the critical factor.
And, I grant that dampening technology might work but again what would be the effect on the body which includes the mind?
The dog showed no loss of skill from cryogenics. But testing on a dog's tricks isn't the same as cognitive assessment of the full range.
But we didn't damper the dog, as we don't have damper tech. The dog was frozen solid for up to a week. -70°C (~203°K). It had no brain activity during freeze. Therefore, the consciousness of the dog, however much thay may have been, apparently stopped. We don't have any proof that mind is anything more than chemical reactions; while theologians often assert that the mind is the junction of soul and brain, we have no proof of that. Yet. (Especially since the vast majority of theologians don't ascribe souls to dogs, and only very few would do so even for primates.) The dog suffered no personality changes notable to the experimenters, but again, dog's are not good subjects for personality assessment.
Thermodynaimcally, the chemical reactions are nil; ain't no brain activity to form a mind, even if we assume mind = soul + brain activity. So it's on hold.
Now, into handwaivium land, if we stop the reactivity by use of dampers to force molecular motion down, and likewise prevent nuclear decay, the net effect is the same.
When we freeze people by either means, we get no brain activity. The only way we know, in the present, real world, to stop a brain and restart it is to freeze it and then thaw it, after having it metabolize an anti-icing agent.
But we didn't damper the dog, as we don't have damper tech. The dog was frozen solid for up to a week. -70°C (~203°K). It had no brain activity during freeze. Therefore, the consciousness of the dog, however much thay may have been, apparently stopped. We don't have any proof that mind is anything more than chemical reactions; while theologians often assert that the mind is the junction of soul and brain, we have no proof of that. Yet. (Especially since the vast majority of theologians don't ascribe souls to dogs, and only very few would do so even for primates.) The dog suffered no personality changes notable to the experimenters, but again, dog's are not good subjects for personality assessment.
Thermodynaimcally, the chemical reactions are nil; ain't no brain activity to form a mind, even if we assume mind = soul + brain activity. So it's on hold.
Now, into handwaivium land, if we stop the reactivity by use of dampers to force molecular motion down, and likewise prevent nuclear decay, the net effect is the same.
When we freeze people by either means, we get no brain activity. The only way we know, in the present, real world, to stop a brain and restart it is to freeze it and then thaw it, after having it metabolize an anti-icing agent.
