The Imperial Corridor Fleet

[rancke]

Hardly. o: There is a technology skill level passing over 3 TLs much less one. Perhaps TL12 can do basic module replacement for TL13, etc.

You're assuming the people manning your 1940 base are trained to 1940 standards. If they can import F35 parts they'd be downright stupid not to import people trained to 2006 standards.

Class A starports on TL 5 worlds can perform annual maintenance on TL15 ships. I should hope that naval bases on TL12 worlds would be able to maintain and repair TL15 ships. That's what they get their pay for.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

You're assuming the people manning your 1940 base are trained to 1940 standards. If they can import F35 parts they'd be downright stupid not to import people trained to 2006 standards.

Class A starports on TL 5 worlds can perform annual maintenance on TL15 ships. I should hope that naval bases on TL12 worlds would be able to maintain and repair TL15 ships. That's what they get their pay for.


Hans

Definition: (DOD) A naval base primarily for support of the forces afloat, contiguous to a port or anchorage, consisting of activities or facilities for which the Navy has operating responsibilities, together with interior lines of communication and the minimum surrounding area necessary for local security. (Normally, not greater than an area of 40 square miles.) http://usmilitary.about.com/od/glossarytermsn/g/n4222.htm

The US Navy operated Subic Bay Naval Base in the Philippines for a century. During the majority of that time the Base tech level was the highest Earth Tech Level while the local Tech Level was, until near the end, way below that standard.

This is a good argument for TL15 repairs and maintenance being performed at any IN Base. Parts and personnel would be provided by the IN, not locally for lower TL worlds.

This also shows that when, for whatever reason, those parts and personnel are no longer available the base, if it has any capability at all, is no more than local TL.

 

[savage]

You're assuming the people manning your 1940 base are trained to 1940 standards. If they can import F35 parts they'd be downright stupid not to import people trained to 2006 standards.

Class A starports on TL 5 worlds can perform annual maintenance on TL15 ships. I should hope that naval bases on TL12 worlds would be able to maintain and repair TL15 ships. That's what they get their pay for.


Hans

Yep. That is what the US did in other countries and we've been robbed blind bringing TL5 countries to TL8. What happens to the non-TL 15 people that join the navy? The 3I is a bit brighter to maintain a 1000yr empire.

GWP based on UWP is inadequate. Also it's only based on mainworlds. And System WP does not exist.

 

[McPerth]

The US Navy operated Subic Bay Naval Base in the Philippines for a century. During the majority of that time the Base tech level was the highest Earth Tech Level while the local Tech Level was, until near the end, way below that standard.

This is a good argument for TL15 repairs and maintenance being performed at any IN Base. Parts and personnel would be provided by the IN, not locally for lower TL worlds.

This also shows that when, for whatever reason, those parts and personnel are no longer available the base, if it has any capability at all, is no more than local TL.

You beat me in this...

Is there now a US base that can not repair A US front-line combat aircraft?

Are all of them in countries able to repair (or build, or maintain) this same aircraft by themselves?

I guess most IN bases will be in a similar situation, being mostly islands of higher tech in the system they're in.

 

[aramis]

What TL is the Perisher Class fast dreadnaught? If it's TL15 and if it's any good, it (the class, not any of the original production run) might still be around in 1105 and be helpful to Drakon.

TL14. J4 4G. Factor 5 Meson screen, 1 Armor. Spinal Meson, 150x 100T PA Bays (Factor 9), 100x 50T missile bays (Factor 9), 50 batts of factor 9 Beam lasers, 42 batts of Sandcaster (factor 9).

Let's see - 500 Turrets for lasers and 500 for Sand... that's 1000T used and 100000T min hull size.
The PA's eat 15000Td, the missiles 5000Td (but require 10KTd of hull).

She's legit. I wouldn't say "good"... but big fangs for 400KTd and Mcr244,593.8

 

[savage]

I guess most IN bases will be in a similar situation, being mostly islands of higher tech in the system they're in.

Kaasu can repair, Depot can repair, other TL15 bases can repair TL15. Sure a one off on a repair on a TL12 navy base makes some sense. But we're talking battle repair.

The MgT view point is interesting. We'll just pop in different TL pieces. That supports the MT SFotSI viewpoint.

 

[Vladika]

You beat me in this...

Is there now a US base that can not repair A US front-line combat aircraft?

Are all of them in countries able to repair (or build, or maintain) this same aircraft by themselves?

I guess most IN bases will be in a similar situation, being mostly islands of higher tech in the system they're in.

Jet engines, other than minor repair, are a system swap out item. They are crated in high security pods and shipped to various Naval Air Rework Faculties. (Best one in America WAS the Norfolk Naval Air Rework Faculty. For political reasons the base closure act eliminated it. This in spite of NAS Oceana operating fully a quarter of ALL US Navy aviation locally as well as being located ON the then Norfolk Naval Air Station. At that time half of all Carriers home-ported at the Norfolk Naval Operations Base.) Go figure...

[BTW The navy paid to have all four jet engine test cells modernized and repaired 9 months before the closure, in spite of KNOWING the closure was to happen. I know as I was the project engineer.]

New, or rebuilt, engines are shipped to end users for installation as unit, or upper echelon maintenance or replacement as arranged for the command. Engines can be changed out aboard carriers and most air bases.

For a Submarine Communications base like WAS in Cutter Maine, definitely not.

For IN Depots? If they can't do it, it can't be done.

 

[mike wightman]

One more little canon tidbit, in the FFW rules IN bases can repair and refit entire TL15 fleets, regardless of local world TL.

 

[rancke]

Kaasu can repair, Depot can repair, other TL15 bases can repair TL15. Sure a one off on a repair on a TL12 navy base makes some sense. But we're talking battle repair.

I wasn't. I was talking basic maintenance.

As for battle repairs, Kaasu can build, repair and maintain as long as its infrastructure remains intact. Depot/Corridor can repair and maintain as long as its stockpiles lasts (Or longer if they can cut a deal with Kaasu and/or Kumish). It's possible that it can build prototypes too, but I doubt it, since designing and building ships there would incur a surcharge due to the logistics problems). The navy base on Lemish can repair and maintain until its stockpile is exhausted. Lemish's civilian shipyards would be able to repair and maintain if they had TL15 parts delivered, so they probably can't handle navy ships in any great number. They definitely can't build TL15 ships.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

Kaasu can repair, Depot can repair, other TL15 bases can repair TL15. Sure a one off on a repair on a TL12 navy base makes some sense. But we're talking battle repair.

As I ¡ve already said in other threads about the subject, if an IN base in a TL 12-13 system, how could two Imperial Fleets keep fighting the whole FFW in Jewell (TL 12) and Efate (TL 13) whyile bessieged by the Zhodani?

I guess they used local built missiles and other spares, but the fletes kept active the full war (according Traveller canon, or at least that's what I understand of it) whle having to go through maintenance, sure some ships were damaged, etc...

IMHO, the only explanation to that is that the IN bases had enough spares and capacity to fully serve them.

 

[Vladika]

I wasn't. I was talking basic maintenance.

As for battle repairs, Kaasu can build, repair and maintain as long as its infrastructure remains intact. Depot/Corridor can repair and maintain as long as its stockpiles lasts (Or longer if they can cut a deal with Kaasu and/or Kumish). It's possible that it can build prototypes too, but I doubt it, since designing and building ships there would incur a surcharge due to the logistics problems).

Would not a Depot act as a Navy Yard and build pretty much anything within it's capacity? [Brooklyn Navy Yard built Battleships as well as Carriers, as well as the Norfolk Naval Shipyard building Battleships?]

The navy base on Lemish can repair and maintain until its stockpile is exhausted. Lemish's civilian shipyards would be able to repair and maintain if they had TL15 parts delivered, so they probably can't handle navy ships in any great number. They definitely can't build TL15 ships.

Or size/ complexity?

 

[savage]

I wasn't. I was talking basic maintenance.

As for battle repairs, Kaasu can build, repair and maintain as long as its infrastructure remains intact. Depot/Corridor can repair and maintain as long as its stockpiles lasts (Or longer if they can cut a deal with Kaasu and/or Kumish). It's possible that it can build prototypes too, but I doubt it, since designing and building ships there would incur a surcharge due to the logistics problems). The navy base on Lemish can repair and maintain until its stockpile is exhausted. Lemish's civilian shipyards would be able to repair and maintain if they had TL15 parts delivered, so they probably can't handle navy ships in any great number. They definitely can't build TL15 ships.


Hans

Are we still talking about this my friend? It works really logically. Depot's can design, build and repair anything with a quantities of fleets not a one or two ship "Joe knows that stuff" situation.

Bottom line from canon.

MT Ref manual errata:
Starport Repairs: Full repairs may be done at any class A or B starport, but jump drive repairs require double cost and time at class B starports. In any case, repairs must be conducted at shipyards of the required tech level (although the referee may make exceptions). The time required for repairs is one to four weeks for non-critical damage and four to eight weeks for critical hits. Repairs at starports require shipyard capacity equal to the ship’s tonnage.

Lemish cannot fully support a TL15 fleet.

Aramis is right the SFotSI ships must be off based on the errata.

 

[savage]

As I ¡ve already said in other threads about the subject, if an IN base in a TL 12-13 system, how could two Imperial Fleets keep fighting the whole FFW in Jewell (TL 12) and Efate (TL 13) whyile bessieged by the Zhodani?

I guess they used local built missiles and other spares, but the fletes kept active the full war (according Traveller canon, or at least that's what I understand of it) whle having to go through maintenance, sure some ships were damaged, etc...

IMHO, the only explanation to that is that the IN bases had enough spares and capacity to fully serve them.

I'd have to review the canon on that situation. I would remind the ref that this is a navy not one fleet. Fresh naval vessels can relieve active fleet resources while they find the place for proper repair. Those bases cannot build, fully service a TL15 fleet.

 

[mike wightman]

Those MT rules conflict with established setting canon - namely that IN bases can repair TL15 fleets regardless of local TL.

Looks like the DGP authors used the wording from TCS without thinking about what had already been established for the 3I setting.

Does Lemish have an IN base? If it does it can support TL15 fleets. If it doesn't it can't.

 

[rancke]

Would not a Depot act as a Navy Yard and build pretty much anything within it's capacity? [Brooklyn Navy Yard built Battleships as well as Carriers, as well as the Norfolk Naval Shipyard building Battleships?]

The problem with that is that if you build a ship at Depot/Solomani Rim, you will have to import the parts from Khiirshag, which adds the cost of jump-1 transportation to the costs -- no big deal. If you want to build a ship at Depot/Corridor, you will have to import the parts from the nearest TL15 world in Vland Sector (which I haven't identified, but isn't in Voshkod Subsector (Vland A)), which would add the cost of transportation through three subsectors -- big deal.

(I am assuming that the TL15 worlds in Corridor are fully occupied maintaining 20 fleets worth of IN warships and have no capacity left over for construction. I acknowledge that this is a mere assumption. Which is why I expressed doubt rather than certainty).


Hans

 

[rancke]

Are we still talking about this my friend? It works really logically. Depots can design, build and repair anything with a quantities of fleets not a one or two ship "Joe knows that stuff" situation.

Unless one of those depots are subject to extraordinary circumstances that does not apply to other depots. Which, what do you know, is quite possibly the case with Depot/Corridor.

Bottom line from canon.

Really? Irrefutable canon that specifically mentions Depot/Corridor and isn't contradicted by other canon or common sense? Could you provide the quote, please?

MT Ref manual errata:
Starport Repairs: Full repairs may be done at any class A or B starport, but jump drive repairs require double cost and time at class B starports. In any case, repairs must be conducted at shipyards of the required tech level (although the referee may make exceptions). The time required for repairs is one to four weeks for non-critical damage and four to eight weeks for critical hits. Repairs at starports require shipyard capacity equal to the ship’s tonnage.

Contradicted by other canon. See Mike's posts on the subject.

Lemish cannot fully support a TL15 fleet.

No, of course not. Who ever said it could? Not me.


Hans

 

[savage]

Those MT rules conflict with established setting canon - namely that IN bases can repair TL15 fleets regardless of local TL.

Looks like the DGP authors used the wording from TCS without thinking about what had already been established for the 3I setting.

Does Lemish have an IN base? If it does it can support TL15 fleets. If it doesn't it can't.

Depends if your using MT canon above CT canon which is part of the intent.
Each version refines the previous. As it said "ref's discression".

Kaasu is TL15. Depot Corridor is TL15. Depot's can build ships from scratch and that is also canon.
They can deploy TL15 fleets against any incursion into Corridor. They utilize lower TLs in Corridor Fleet at some locations.

 

[rancke]

Depends if your using MT canon above CT canon which is part of the intent.

I thought the intent was to create a self-consistent roleplaying background.

Each version refines the previous.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Kaasu is TL15. Depot Corridor is TL15.

Kaasu has a TL15 infrastructure. Depot/Corridor imports TL15 stuff. They're both TL15, but their capabilities is very much not the same.


Hans

 

[Dagrill]

This is a very radical departure from previously published information. It is also very ineffective. It's much more efficient to let the TL15 worlds build TL15 battleships and the TL13 world build TL13 transports.

But even if the idea made sense, it still doesn't justify waving a magic wand over the TL15 Plankwells and hocus pocus turning them into TL13 Plankwells. It would be far less disrupting to say that the IN had decided to switch to a new procurement strategy and that the new TL 13 Buffoon class battleship would be replacing the Plankwells (for a reduction of combat efficiency of around two thirds -- IIRC TL13 ships are about one third as effective as TL15 ships, everything else being equal¹). :nonono:

¹ Maybe that was the reason the IN built TL15 battleships in the first place? :smirk:​

No, it does not make sense, because a) the Plankwells had already been built, so the spares would be TL15, and b) the Plankwells were rotated out of the Marches, implying that they were replaced by some other battleships.
Hans

Hi Hans,

It does make sense because the only thing Mongoose have changed is different levels of Hull tech.

Go to CT Book 5 HG page 25:
Missile tech starts at TL7 & increase at TL13, there's no need to build at TL15, which would be a waste of resources, so Plankwell Missile batteries were TL13, for Sandcaster's it's TL10, if you assume a 10 ship Batron one will be undergoing it's 10 year refit at any given time, so the Marches are losing the business to Corridor,

Regards

David

 

[Vladika]

Kaasu is TL15. Depot Corridor is TL15. Depot's can build ships from scratch and that is also canon.
They can deploy TL15 fleets against any incursion into Corridor. They utilize lower TLs in Corridor Fleet at some locations.

So what is a Depot's building capacity? Using a real world, peacetime example (Newport News Shipbuilding for Carriers) I'd have to say a least 10% of GROSS Sector Tonnage. [This includes NNS's ability to do major overhaul concurrently with building.]