The Universal Game Mechanic (revised)

[Supplement Four]

Contests of Skills: I would probably just handle these, Emp, the same way I handled contess of characteristics above.

Simply roll a UGM task, the same task for both contestants, and the higher roller wins.

If you're happy with your system, that would work too--keep doing it the same way.

 

[Supplement Four]

Contests of Skills: I would probably just handle these, Emp, the same way I handled contess of characteristics above.

Simply roll a UGM task, the same task for both contestants, and the higher roller wins.

If you're happy with your system, that would work too--keep doing it the same way.

 

[Supplement Four]

Opposed Tasks: Again, Emp, I would simplify this. I think simple, easy to use rules are best. Focus on the role playing.

I would handle this exactly the way I handeled contests of skill and contests of characteristics.

In each case, you've got one character tyring to do something, and one character trying to stop him.

The simplest thing to do, from my POV, is just to have one side roll for a task, then have the other side roll, and the higher roll wins.

I'd throw out three rules (1- Contests of Characteristic; 2- Contests of Skill; and 3- Oppoosed Rolls), and I'd replace all three of them with the simple "each side rolls a task with the higher roll winning."

Does the job nice and easy like.

Two characters are wrestling? Have each side roll a Brawling task governed by STR. Higher roll wins.

Telina is trying to break through jamming with the comm? Telina rolls a Communications task governed by INT while the person jamming he rolls the same task. Higher roll wins.

Telina and Constatine are racing towards the finish line in air/rafts? Telina makes an Air/Raft roll governed by DEX, and Constatine makes the same roll. The higher wins.

I think that's the easiest way to do all of these things you mention.

If you like the separation of duties, as you have in your private rules, I think all of them work fine with UGM.

If you like what you're doing, I don't see any reason to change--that method will work well no matter if you keep using your current task sytem or switch over to UGM.

 

[Supplement Four]

Opposed Tasks: Again, Emp, I would simplify this. I think simple, easy to use rules are best. Focus on the role playing.

I would handle this exactly the way I handeled contests of skill and contests of characteristics.

In each case, you've got one character tyring to do something, and one character trying to stop him.

The simplest thing to do, from my POV, is just to have one side roll for a task, then have the other side roll, and the higher roll wins.

I'd throw out three rules (1- Contests of Characteristic; 2- Contests of Skill; and 3- Oppoosed Rolls), and I'd replace all three of them with the simple "each side rolls a task with the higher roll winning."

Does the job nice and easy like.

Two characters are wrestling? Have each side roll a Brawling task governed by STR. Higher roll wins.

Telina is trying to break through jamming with the comm? Telina rolls a Communications task governed by INT while the person jamming he rolls the same task. Higher roll wins.

Telina and Constatine are racing towards the finish line in air/rafts? Telina makes an Air/Raft roll governed by DEX, and Constatine makes the same roll. The higher wins.

I think that's the easiest way to do all of these things you mention.

If you like the separation of duties, as you have in your private rules, I think all of them work fine with UGM.

If you like what you're doing, I don't see any reason to change--that method will work well no matter if you keep using your current task sytem or switch over to UGM.

 

[Supplement Four]

Cooperating on a Task: Finally, Emp, in this long winded, multi-post answer to you, again, you can keep doing the same thing you are already doing for cooperation among tasks.

Just make the task roll a UGM task roll, and do the DM the way you describe in your rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Cooperating on a Task: Finally, Emp, in this long winded, multi-post answer to you, again, you can keep doing the same thing you are already doing for cooperation among tasks.

Just make the task roll a UGM task roll, and do the DM the way you describe in your rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
If I roll well for a check I likely won't get a bonus from the stat, and usually when I need it most on the more difficult checks. But if I roll crap I will usually get the bonus from the stat, and it won't do me much good because the check will have failed even with the add.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but that just feels wrong.

That's a fair statement, Dan. Let me address it.

The thinking is this--

Low Stat won't help you very often. A Stat-5, for example, is really only good enough to give you a little help on Easy and Routine tasks. You might squeeze some help out of your lowly Stat-5, if you are skilled, on a Standard (or maybe even a Difficult) task, but, typically, your natural competence is only good enough to be a benefit on Easy and Routine tasks.

A Stat-5 doesn't usually mean a hill of beans if you're talking about attempting a task that is Difficult--you might as well be Stat-2.

Example: A character with END-5 is trying to run a mile. This is a Routine task. His natural amount of endurance might help him make this throw (it's only a 28% chance that a Stat-5 character will get a bonus).

But, let's up the difficulty level. Let's say the same character needs to run the mile in under 6 minutes. Now, that's pretty difficult for someone with a low endurance. So, the GM makes this throw Difficult.

The Stat-5 character is going to have a real hard time making this throw. He typically doesn't have the endurance to make it a mile moving at the pace required to make the 6 min. deadline, so he doesn't get a bonus on the throw.

Now, if the END-5 character was a trained runner (meaning he's got skill), the trained experience would definitely help him run the mile in under 6 min (he'd get the +Skill DM). And, his END might even help him if his skill was high enough.


On the other hand, take a Stat-9 guy. That's a decent stat that can help you on most tasks you will come across (most tasks in Traveller range from Easy to Difficult...rarely harder than that).

With your Stat-9, you will typically (83% of the time) get a natural ability bonus.

If you've got END-9, and you need to make the Difficulty throw to run the mile in under 6 min, it's a lot easier for you--you'll probably get the +1DM for Natural Ability (a good endurance), and have a good chance of making the Difficult throw even without any trained experience (skill) to help you.

If you are a trained runner (skill), and you have an END-9, then making that Difficult throw is going to be even easier for you.

Dan, does that example make the thinking behind the system clearer?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
If I roll well for a check I likely won't get a bonus from the stat, and usually when I need it most on the more difficult checks. But if I roll crap I will usually get the bonus from the stat, and it won't do me much good because the check will have failed even with the add.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but that just feels wrong.

That's a fair statement, Dan. Let me address it.

The thinking is this--

Low Stat won't help you very often. A Stat-5, for example, is really only good enough to give you a little help on Easy and Routine tasks. You might squeeze some help out of your lowly Stat-5, if you are skilled, on a Standard (or maybe even a Difficult) task, but, typically, your natural competence is only good enough to be a benefit on Easy and Routine tasks.

A Stat-5 doesn't usually mean a hill of beans if you're talking about attempting a task that is Difficult--you might as well be Stat-2.

Example: A character with END-5 is trying to run a mile. This is a Routine task. His natural amount of endurance might help him make this throw (it's only a 28% chance that a Stat-5 character will get a bonus).

But, let's up the difficulty level. Let's say the same character needs to run the mile in under 6 minutes. Now, that's pretty difficult for someone with a low endurance. So, the GM makes this throw Difficult.

The Stat-5 character is going to have a real hard time making this throw. He typically doesn't have the endurance to make it a mile moving at the pace required to make the 6 min. deadline, so he doesn't get a bonus on the throw.

Now, if the END-5 character was a trained runner (meaning he's got skill), the trained experience would definitely help him run the mile in under 6 min (he'd get the +Skill DM). And, his END might even help him if his skill was high enough.


On the other hand, take a Stat-9 guy. That's a decent stat that can help you on most tasks you will come across (most tasks in Traveller range from Easy to Difficult...rarely harder than that).

With your Stat-9, you will typically (83% of the time) get a natural ability bonus.

If you've got END-9, and you need to make the Difficulty throw to run the mile in under 6 min, it's a lot easier for you--you'll probably get the +1DM for Natural Ability (a good endurance), and have a good chance of making the Difficult throw even without any trained experience (skill) to help you.

If you are a trained runner (skill), and you have an END-9, then making that Difficult throw is going to be even easier for you.

Dan, does that example make the thinking behind the system clearer?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
If I roll well for a check I likely won't get a bonus from the stat, and usually when I need it most on the more difficult checks. But if I roll crap I will usually get the bonus from the stat, and it won't do me much good because the check will have failed even with the add.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but that just feels wrong.

Hey, Dan, let me ask you something else...

Which system are you currently using?

Have you considered some of the peculularities of what you're currently using?

I'm betting, as with most Traveller systems out there, that there's some things about your current system and stats that doesn't make sense.

If you give me an idea of what you are currently using, I'll point out what I think those problems are.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
If I roll well for a check I likely won't get a bonus from the stat, and usually when I need it most on the more difficult checks. But if I roll crap I will usually get the bonus from the stat, and it won't do me much good because the check will have failed even with the add.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but that just feels wrong.

Hey, Dan, let me ask you something else...

Which system are you currently using?

Have you considered some of the peculularities of what you're currently using?

I'm betting, as with most Traveller systems out there, that there's some things about your current system and stats that doesn't make sense.

If you give me an idea of what you are currently using, I'll point out what I think those problems are.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
If I roll well for a check I likely won't get a bonus from the stat, and usually when I need it most on the more difficult checks. But if I roll crap I will usually get the bonus from the stat, and it won't do me much good because the check will have failed even with the add.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but that just feels wrong.

That's a fair statement, Dan. Let me address it.

<snippage>

Dan, does that example make the thinking behind the system clearer? </font>[/QUOTE]Perfectly

Well put WJP, that belongs in some form as a part of the write up for this I think. I had a feeling it worked well right from your first presentation of it, I just couldn't shake that feeling of wrongness. Now POOF! It's gone just like that.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by WJP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
If I roll well for a check I likely won't get a bonus from the stat, and usually when I need it most on the more difficult checks. But if I roll crap I will usually get the bonus from the stat, and it won't do me much good because the check will have failed even with the add.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but that just feels wrong.

That's a fair statement, Dan. Let me address it.

<snippage>

Dan, does that example make the thinking behind the system clearer? </font>[/QUOTE]Perfectly

Well put WJP, that belongs in some form as a part of the write up for this I think. I had a feeling it worked well right from your first presentation of it, I just couldn't shake that feeling of wrongness. Now POOF! It's gone just like that.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by WJP:
Hey, Dan, let me ask you something else...

Which system are you currently using?

Have you considered some of the peculularities of what you're currently using?

I'm betting, as with most Traveller systems out there, that there's some things about your current system and stats that doesn't make sense.

If you give me an idea of what you are currently using, I'll point out what I think those problems are.

All I'm playing at the moment is T20 and most recently before that TNE. I've played them all right from the LBBs up* and yes, to say there were questions over the years would be an understatement but I've never been afraid of "fixing" and experimenting.

* Excepting GURPS. Looked at it, even tried the lite version when it first made the Traveller scene but never took to it.

My interest here is that I always find myself gravitating back to CT and thanks to the reprints even more so. So I'm messing around with setting up my CT stuff as an option for a quick and easy game at a moments notice for even the totally uninitiated. A universal task system will of course be key to that and I think you've saved me a lot of work tearing MT apart for the core. For that, you have my thanks

So no specific problems yet to bounce off you but I'll keep meddling in affairs here and trying to throw you off guard All in the interest of making what you contribute that much better I hope.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by WJP:
Hey, Dan, let me ask you something else...

Which system are you currently using?

Have you considered some of the peculularities of what you're currently using?

I'm betting, as with most Traveller systems out there, that there's some things about your current system and stats that doesn't make sense.

If you give me an idea of what you are currently using, I'll point out what I think those problems are.

All I'm playing at the moment is T20 and most recently before that TNE. I've played them all right from the LBBs up* and yes, to say there were questions over the years would be an understatement but I've never been afraid of "fixing" and experimenting.

* Excepting GURPS. Looked at it, even tried the lite version when it first made the Traveller scene but never took to it.

My interest here is that I always find myself gravitating back to CT and thanks to the reprints even more so. So I'm messing around with setting up my CT stuff as an option for a quick and easy game at a moments notice for even the totally uninitiated. A universal task system will of course be key to that and I think you've saved me a lot of work tearing MT apart for the core. For that, you have my thanks

So no specific problems yet to bounce off you but I'll keep meddling in affairs here and trying to throw you off guard All in the interest of making what you contribute that much better I hope.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I had a feeling it worked well right from your first presentation of it, I just couldn't shake that feeling of wrongness. Now POOF! It's gone just like that.

Excellent. Glad to hear it.

I always try to think out my rule changes and make sure that (1) they are necessary, (2) that they are simple and easy to implement, (3) that they change as little of the official game as possible, and (4) that I take the time to completely think through the situation logically and cover all bases.

We're talking here, in this thread, about UGM.

If you're thinking of switching back to CT with a task system, the UGM is certainly a good choice (a much better choice than going with DGP/MT or one of it's tweaks).

The best system I've written for CT, though, is called CTI.

You should really look into that one.

I just wrote a post about CTI in the CTI vs. UGM vs. DGP/MT thread.

Click on this link and check out the post I wrote labeled "The Case for CTI".

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000278

That will give you some thought about using either UGM or CTI.

I've been debating, myself, which system I'm going to use in my own game--I've got one starting up on March 3.

I've decided that I'm going with CTI. It's the race horse--it's the Mercedes to UGM's Cadillac.

I do believe in UGM. It is a good system. I just thing CTI is better.

There's also a thread that discusses CTI.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I had a feeling it worked well right from your first presentation of it, I just couldn't shake that feeling of wrongness. Now POOF! It's gone just like that.

Excellent. Glad to hear it.

I always try to think out my rule changes and make sure that (1) they are necessary, (2) that they are simple and easy to implement, (3) that they change as little of the official game as possible, and (4) that I take the time to completely think through the situation logically and cover all bases.

We're talking here, in this thread, about UGM.

If you're thinking of switching back to CT with a task system, the UGM is certainly a good choice (a much better choice than going with DGP/MT or one of it's tweaks).

The best system I've written for CT, though, is called CTI.

You should really look into that one.

I just wrote a post about CTI in the CTI vs. UGM vs. DGP/MT thread.

Click on this link and check out the post I wrote labeled "The Case for CTI".

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000278

That will give you some thought about using either UGM or CTI.

I've been debating, myself, which system I'm going to use in my own game--I've got one starting up on March 3.

I've decided that I'm going with CTI. It's the race horse--it's the Mercedes to UGM's Cadillac.

I do believe in UGM. It is a good system. I just thing CTI is better.

There's also a thread that discusses CTI.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
* Excepting GURPS. Looked at it, even tried the lite version when it first made the Traveller scene but never took to it.

I hear ya. I've looked at GT several times, and I just can't get fired up about it. I've tried, but the spark's just not there.

My interest here is that I always find myself gravitating back to CT and thanks to the reprints even more so.

I hear that too.

I've played the heck out of MT. Then, I played a long, multi-year campaign with T4.

Yet, here I am, back with CT.

I can't shake CT. Classic Trav is the best version, in my opinion.

I'm not sure I'll ever buy another edition. I'm going to look at T5 when it comes out, but if it's anything like T4 was, I'm just going to save my money and keep playing CT.

A universal task system will of course be key to that and I think you've saved me a lot of work tearing MT apart for the core. For that, you have my thanks

Glad that what I've written is useful to you. i write these things for myself and my game. I really don't do it for any other reason. It my hobby, and I try to improve it when I think it's necessary. If nobody used my game tweaks except me and my group, that would be completely fine by me.

But, it's always nice to hear when someone appreciates what you've done.

Thanks for saying thank you.

I appreciate that.

...I'll keep meddling in affairs here and trying to throw you off guard All in the interest of making what you contribute that much better I hope.

Wouldn't want it any other way. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

It's been a pleasure.

W.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
* Excepting GURPS. Looked at it, even tried the lite version when it first made the Traveller scene but never took to it.

I hear ya. I've looked at GT several times, and I just can't get fired up about it. I've tried, but the spark's just not there.

My interest here is that I always find myself gravitating back to CT and thanks to the reprints even more so.

I hear that too.

I've played the heck out of MT. Then, I played a long, multi-year campaign with T4.

Yet, here I am, back with CT.

I can't shake CT. Classic Trav is the best version, in my opinion.

I'm not sure I'll ever buy another edition. I'm going to look at T5 when it comes out, but if it's anything like T4 was, I'm just going to save my money and keep playing CT.

A universal task system will of course be key to that and I think you've saved me a lot of work tearing MT apart for the core. For that, you have my thanks

Glad that what I've written is useful to you. i write these things for myself and my game. I really don't do it for any other reason. It my hobby, and I try to improve it when I think it's necessary. If nobody used my game tweaks except me and my group, that would be completely fine by me.

But, it's always nice to hear when someone appreciates what you've done.

Thanks for saying thank you.

I appreciate that.

...I'll keep meddling in affairs here and trying to throw you off guard All in the interest of making what you contribute that much better I hope.

Wouldn't want it any other way. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

It's been a pleasure.

W.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by WJP:

(1) 2D roll results in a 5.
(2) +1DM Natural Ability modifier.
(3) +0DM difficulty; -2DM DEX penalty; -3DM vs. Cloth armor; -6DM Range penalty.

Why apply both the +1 Natural Ability DM and the DEX DM at the same time? I think that the UGM should replace the (slightly cumbersome) CT DEX/STR weapon DMs with the UGM-standard Natural Ability DM procedure. No need for double procedures here.

Oh, and how would a character with Skill-0 be different under that system from a character without Skill-0?

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by WJP:

(1) 2D roll results in a 5.
(2) +1DM Natural Ability modifier.
(3) +0DM difficulty; -2DM DEX penalty; -3DM vs. Cloth armor; -6DM Range penalty.

Why apply both the +1 Natural Ability DM and the DEX DM at the same time? I think that the UGM should replace the (slightly cumbersome) CT DEX/STR weapon DMs with the UGM-standard Natural Ability DM procedure. No need for double procedures here.

Oh, and how would a character with Skill-0 be different under that system from a character without Skill-0?