General Thoughts on Travellers earning CrImps on the side.

[Magnus von Thornwood]

So Supp4 posted a cool thread in the CT subforum on a topic I have considered for my Permatic Imperium ATU, the Personal Tech Level. Basically the concept that a PC has a TL that they are comfortable with having either grown up at that TL or by having served in some sort of Imperial Service. I dig it since I like me some crunch and considering I already use a Modified Aging Roll mechanic I have been cosidering something similar for my own ATU.

But that isn't actually the topic of this thread just the origin of this one. It got started when the discussion turned to how to implement it and as usual wandered off into various topics such as what TL is available to low tech worlds and that got into how long or far one has to travel to get certain services when the locals don't have the infrastructure. One example given was how rural cancer patients have to travel to distant locations to get some diagnostic or other medical services.

This made me wonder, could a ship like say a TL-C (12) Free Trader provide services at port for the locals of a low tech say TL-8 world like use of the autodoc or the high tech diagnostic gear?

For example: The locals doctors could give their best shot but then tell the patient that if they travel to the Starport in a week or so the ISS Taels of Yore gets in they should take Cr 500 and this scrip and see Doctor Smith who will run them through the ship's medical scanner and give them a report and perhaps a scrip.

Curious to what people think of the idea? Comments welcomed and encouraged!

 

[Timerover51]

There are groups that do that sort of thing on this world in the Real World, except that they do not charge for their services as they are funded by organizations that would not exist in the standard Traveller Universe.

You are also making the assumption that higher Tech Level medicine as exemplified by your "autodoc" is able to deal with anything that could come up. Having been a medical oddity for approaching 43 years, I would be the last one to make such an assumption.

 

[Fovean]

Could be a cool hook for a subsidized trader along a backwater main. Kind of like an altruistic Firefly scenario. Or maybe the doc patches up the unluckies after another one of the crew’s ruttin’ entanglements.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

But of course.

There are groups that do that sort of thing on this world in the Real World, except that they do not charge for their services as they are funded by organizations that would not exist in the standard Traveller Universe.

You are also making the assumption that higher Tech Level medicine as exemplified by your "autodoc" is able to deal with anything that could come up. Having been a medical oddity for approaching 43 years, I would be the last one to make such an assumption.

True but my ATU is extermely high tech and also benevolent so yeah, I assume high tech medicine is better than low tech medicine especially since in the real world that holds true.

Not to say that there aren't weirdnesses now and again but for most common maladies a higher tech level will result in better results.

As to organizations like Doctors without Borders, that is a nice idea hadn't thought of that, but mostly this thread is about ways which Travellers and their cool high tech starships could earn extra cash on the side while doing the usual trading and seeking passengers without having to have adventures. A way for the less adventurous Travellers to make ends meet.

It's not limitied to merely medical services, that was just the first thing that popped into my head. Maybe the ship has a Maker and can do some crafting or enginerring work as well. Perhaps they rent out the ship to put satellites into orbit for the local telco company or government. Stuff like that, innovative ways to use the ship and skills Travellers have that locals don't have access to regularly.

 

[Timerover51]

I was not thinking of Doctors Without Borders, but of other groups who do not seek the attention of the media, which they would not get anyway.

As for the rest, you can do whatever you want in your universe. I do expect to be accorded the same courtesy.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Still good.

I was not thinking of Doctors Without Borders, but of other groups who do not seek the attention of the media, which they would not get anyway.

As for the rest, you can do whatever you want in your universe. I do expect to be accorded the same courtesy.

Yes, I a well aware of what you were implying but decided to go with something we could use outside of the Pit. I did that because I felt it was a good suggestion and the idea of altruistic organizations doing something similar was a really good suggestion. Not sure why you seem upset by my response.

And as I invited comments it means that I actually want to hear what people think, so please feel free to add to the mix. An idea which isn't tested isn't yet a good one.

Also, your point about medical oddities was also good, especially as someone with a lung disease that the docs know what it is but not the vector of infection I can dig it.

So, if you thought I was bagging on your suggestions know that wasn't at all the intent. They were good, I mean I do sometimes still fall for that trust in high tech, so you were right to remind me that it doesn't always work that way.

EDIT: Also, if you don't want people to point out things that they see might be issues in your TU, I'd suggest not posting them because it's sorta what we do here. Just saying.

 

[Spinward Scout]

...they should take Cr 500 and this scrip and see Doctor Smith...

Oh, the pain!

I don't see why not. They would have to get through the Starport gate first. If they send an X-Boat message ahead of time, the ship might have some 'extra supplies' for their doctor, too.

 

[Enoki]

The only things I see wrong with this are:

How would the local medical professionals take this? They might not like the competition. I could see them getting the local government to make any scripts issued this way illegal to be filled. So, you wasted your time.

Or, The local government decides this is a form of practicing medicine without a license. You, the starship Captain has to have a qualified, Imperial certified medical person / doctor aboard and pay a licensing fee to practice locally. The fee is such that you would probably not make back your money showing up for a few days a year.

Or, they just make anything issued off-planet / via an autodoc with a professional reviewing it, illegal. That means your whole diagnosis is worthless even if it is 100% correct.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Yeesh, did you read the OP?

The only things I see wrong with this are:

How would the local medical professionals take this? They might not like the competition. I could see them getting the local government to make any scripts issued this way illegal to be filled. So, you wasted your time.

Or, The local government decides this is a form of practicing medicine without a license. You, the starship Captain has to have a qualified, Imperial certified medical person / doctor aboard and pay a licensing fee to practice locally. The fee is such that you would probably not make back your money showing up for a few days a year.

Or, they just make anything issued off-planet / via an autodoc with a professional reviewing it, illegal. That means your whole diagnosis is worthless even if it is 100% correct.

Well since my OP and example were predicated on there being a friendly relationship you know doctors being people who wish to prevent harm not do harm I went with that crazy idea they'd love having the ability do better by their patients. Silly me.

I mean yes, by all means comment but peeps, I wasn't looking for ways to hose players with this but to give them non-criminal, non-adventurous or dangerous ways to make a CrImp. I mean i took a level 15 Wealth Advantage in GURPS down quick to something like level 10, I know how to hose players out of wealth if I wanted to. (Hiring Dragon hunter, high tech mercs and the best hackers in the world will drain the coffers. :devil

Am I like the only one here who thinks it's cool for players to have resources like cash and stuff? Sometimes I feel like my vision of Traveller is too much influenced by my love of The Federation and a better future. That I'm some weirdo in the commons on my soapboxes yelling to the crowd as they walk on by.

Still, looking for other ideas for crews who would rather not have to use their medical supplies or arms and ammo while hoping to avoid arrest or Imperial Entanglements whilst Dirtside. So, what ideas do you have for helping the crew stay legit and still do neat stuff with their assets.

 

[vegas]

@Enoki

While locals might not "like" competition from travellers, in any setting where we assume there are tramp traders it is hard to argue ex ante that there will never be trade in professional services and only trade in goods. If the autodoc is better or more available than a local doc, there would be plenty of demand.

Nobody likes competition. Not everyone is in position to stop it. Sometimes buyers can demand it.

 

[Enoki]

@Enoki

While locals might not "like" competition from travellers, in any setting where we assume there are tramp traders it is hard to argue ex ante that there will never be trade in professional services and only trade in goods. If the autodoc is better or more available than a local doc, there would be plenty of demand.

Nobody likes competition. Not everyone is in position to stop it. Sometimes buyers can demand it.

Of course not. But, it can cut all ways. For example here in Arizona many people go to Mexico to get scripts filled super cheap. Dentists and doctors are much cheaper too. But, you can't be sure of the quality you are getting and there's little recourse if they cheat or injure you from malpractice. You could get placebo drugs and not know it.
Then there's coming back into the US...

Same thing as your scenario.

Of course, there would be black markets too.

So, it could be almost "Anything goes." You could have the equivalent of snake oil salesmen doing this to take the local's money and do little else.

 

[vegas]

So, what ideas do you have for helping the crew stay legit and still do neat stuff with their assets.

Aramis mentioned this one in the past: the ship sets down and lets the locals get power off the ships power plant. It's basically free for the travellers and a godsend for any pre-fusion TL.

 

[coliver988]

I do like this thread: how do you legally make credits with your existing resources. It is sometimes challenging to come up with ways that don't border on the illegal (of course, those tend to be more fun in some ways)

The medical stuff I like, either as a short term thing (we're on this planet for the next few days, send us your most critical cases) or longer term (aka doctors without borders: but who is backing this, and is it truly a sophontarian (humanitarian but broader effort or is there something behind it (see the Black Lightening series, or even Firefly and the Reapers which is similar in theme).

Supplying power, creating things if you go the makers route. Even education - perhaps the locals want to know more about the universe at large. Trade in some time teaching for supplies. Can't beat May Lou's quanceberry muffins!

Emergency transport (which I think I did back in the 80s in college, but memories are hazy).

There was a movie I saw a few years ago where the main characters were stealing from the rich, but really were returning goods stolen from other people/cultures. Although that is venturing further afield from the original question, it was just a way to do legal stealing

 

[Timerover51]

Supplying free power would be one way of selling the planet fusion plants. Supply them with free power for three or four trips, let them experience the problems with the ship leaves, and then show up with several fusion plants, and tell them no more freebies. You want the power, you buy.

A standard Power Plant A for a star ship runs 8 Million Credits, so you sell them one for 12 Million Credits, and say, "By the way, I have a few more that I can get, and the price is 10 Million Credits each for 4, for a total of 40 Million Credits. I am giving you an 8 Million Credit discount! What a deal!"

Same way with handing out free drugs or services. Get them hooked on the idea, and then cut off the freebies. They either pay or go without. If you have properly addicted them, they will buy.

 

[Enoki]

I think a better way would be to have a 3D machining center on board. Like a 3D printer, it can make any part from either powdered material or out of a block of material. You might have other equipment aboard for this purpose like advanced testing gear so you can test, repair, or make vacuum tubes.

Imagine landing on a backward planet where technology is late 19th to early 20th Century, but there is some more advanced stuff imported too. Your ship can make repair parts for everything in a matter of minutes to hours instead of days to weeks, it's far superior in quality, and you can make stuff the locals have to try to import. Keeping their stuff running would be a major money maker. You'd be like a traveling blacksmith shop.

 

[Timerover51]

I think a better way would be to have a 3D machining center on board. Like a 3D printer, it can make any part from either powdered material or out of a block of material. You might have other equipment aboard for this purpose like advanced testing gear so you can test, repair, or make vacuum tubes.

Imagine landing on a backward planet where technology is late 19th to early 20th Century, but there is some more advanced stuff imported too. Your ship can make repair parts for everything in a matter of minutes to hours instead of days to weeks, it's far superior in quality, and you can make stuff the locals have to try to import. Keeping their stuff running would be a major money maker. You'd be like a traveling blacksmith shop.

How long to you think that you can do this before the local engineers whose business you are damaging start to hiring people to beat your crewmen to a pulp as soon as they are out of the Star Port fencing, and also start demolishing the businesses using your services? Locals being shown up by locals is one thing, but you are an outsider showing off. Plus, you are not around all of the time, so that businesses who benefit from your services are in trouble as soon as you vanish.

You are thinking that there might be no reaction to what you are doing, whereas there is very likely going to be.

 

[whartung]

The singular biggest issue with this is what can be done in the short visit.

There's a wide gamut "one-off" procedures that could be done BETTER at a higher tech level (i.e. arthroscopic procedure vs normal open procedures), but those are the type of procedures that are nice to get if you can get one, but you would't wait for it (long, at least) if you needed one.

Then there's the question of what can medication do, do they get enough medication to actually heal the patient, and what about follow up care.

Any thing that doesn't require exceptional equipment, OR equipment that isn't particularly high maintenance can be readily cross trained with the local doctors.

There are certainly high tech medical procedures, but the issues here, currently, are more distribution of material and expertise than flat out magic technology.

If you have an "auto doc", you can readily park it someplace with several months of supplies and let the locals manage it rather than having to continue to return.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Sweet.

Thank you all for your contributions.

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions.

So Medical services seem to be a thing, plus Maker work, and of course power and science services as well. Nice.

 

[coliver988]

How long to you think that you can do this before the local engineers whose business you are damaging start to hiring people to beat your crewmen to a pulp as soon as they are out of the Star Port fencing, and also start demolishing the businesses using your services? Locals being shown up by locals is one thing, but you are an outsider showing off. Plus, you are not around all of the time, so that businesses who benefit from your services are in trouble as soon as you vanish.

You are thinking that there might be no reaction to what you are doing, whereas there is very likely going to be.

Entirely depends on the world. My players just left a planet of 10 citizens who already import what they can't make themselves. That population would be very appreciative. Not that they actually did anything other than capture some bad guys, but hey, these were the kidnap victims that turned the tables and uncovered a larger plot.

What the players can offer will depend on the world they are at: they would not be producing things that could already be manufactured there most likely, more likely one-offs or important things that (hopefully) do not need support from tech available only from off-worlders.

So there are no blanket statements (well, that was one I suppose): not everyone will react the way they may here. It is a game, play it and have fun. Everyone has different suspenders of disbelief they chose to wear while playing.

 

[Timerover51]

Entirely depends on the world. My players just left a planet of 10 citizens who already import what they can't make themselves. That population would be very appreciative. Not that they actually did anything other than capture some bad guys, but hey, these were the kidnap victims that turned the tables and uncovered a larger plot.

What the players can offer will depend on the world they are at: they would not be producing things that could already be manufactured there most likely, more likely one-offs or important things that (hopefully) do not need support from tech available only from off-worlders.

So there are no blanket statements (well, that was one I suppose): not everyone will react the way they may here. It is a game, play it and have fun. Everyone has different suspenders of disbelief they chose to wear while playing.

I was thinking more of worlds with at least a million or so inhabitants. I understand that very low population worlds, those of a few thousand or less, would greatly appreciate anything that they can get in terms of medical care. The problem is what happens if part of the care is continual medication. How much of say "blood pressure" medication is a ship going to be caring in its medical supplies?