Tigress class dreadnaughts

[Vladika]

j4 would most certainly apply to a campaign and to "real life".

just sayin'.

We differ in opinion here. If I can get enough "dug in" infantry to stop your cavalry from taking any important objective you can't win. My cavalry will then hit your weaken cavalry.:CoW::CoW::CoW:

I've really enjoyed your posted ships and they have given me a few good insights. I use CT/HG2/TCS and you use a house rule modified version. (Which I'm not privy to) so there never could be a baseline "fair" trial.

The shame of this is that we will probably never have the opportunity to fight this one out.

I might send you a friend request one day but then it would be a real shame to have my Fleet turn yours to:toast: one day.

 

[rancke]

The biggest complaint seems to have been the "self destruct" of damaged ships. That can be obviated by breaking of from the reserve. Both keep the Fleet agility up for the stated purpose of initiative role.

That's a perfect illustration of the difference between a wargame and a role-playing game. In a wargame anything the rules allow is perfectly fair. In a role-playing game, a referee is supposed to prevent abuse of the rules and provide new rules to cover situations not covered or inadequately covered by the rules. I certainly think any referee worth his salt would have a laughing fit over any strategy that involved self-destructing ships. And then he'd disallow it.

Another complaint from Fans was the Eurisko Fleet with no maneuver drive the first year. In all fairness the rules didn't require them and for a System Defense Fleet that works just fine with the weapon ranges what they are.

That's a perfect illustration of the difference between... oh, I've said that already.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

That's a perfect illustration of the difference between a wargame and a role-playing game. In a wargame anything the rules allow is perfectly fair. In a role-playing game, a referee is supposed to prevent abuse of the rules and provide new rules to cover situations not covered or inadequately covered by the rules. I certainly think any referee worth his salt would have a laughing fit over any strategy that involved self-destructing ships. And then he'd disallow it.

Agree in full! Imagine a PC saying "I'm going to shoot myself in the head so you guys don't have to carry me back to the AutoDoc". Real life: "Get my ass to the ER right NOW!"

As for the HG breaking off from the reserve by acceleration, it's more like "It's only a flesh wouldrolleyes, but I'm not able to keep up. I'm heading back to the ship while you guys finish this up."

That's a perfect illustration of the difference between... oh, I've said that already.
Hans

And, knowing you, you'll probably say it again?

 

[Condottiere]

Presumably, the Tigress class was a political statement.

Theoretically, the fighters are a screen to prevent some opportunistic farmboy with a fighter from sending a pair of torpedoes up the Tigress's kilt.

 

[Vladika]

Presumably, the Tigress class was a political statement.

Theoretically, the fighters are a screen to prevent some opportunistic farmboy with a fighter from sending a pair of torpedoes up the Tigress's kilt.

Hmmm Tigresses and Death Stars do have something of a resemblance.:devil:

 

[rancke]

Hmmm Tigresses and Death Stars do have something of a resemblance.:devil:

A Tigress is a tad small for a Death Star, though.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

A Tigress is a tad small for a Death Star, though.
Hans

A perch and a sea bass also very greatly in size, but, they are both good to eat.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Note

I saw you have a Snow Leopardess but no Snow Tigress listed

 

[rancke]

I saw you have a Snow Leopardess but no Snow Tigress listed

That's because the snow leopard is a Terran great cat (or at least a big cat) whereas the snow tiger isn't. Of course, 'snow tiger' might be an alien great cat or an alien carnivore/pouncer with some similarity to a great cat, but I haven't established that it is. Hence no Snow Tigress. At least not yet.


Hans

 

[savage]

Hans,
just a few points:

Naming half the fleet "...Tigress" is not going to work out well. Assuming they actually, do verbal communications its a mess.

Also, there are many nationalities on Earth and in 3I that have pouncers beyond those listed. Looking for different languages is one approach.

What message is this sending to the Aslan? Our best ship is named for their genetic peer. Do they call their ships, "apes"?

The first group of ships are the named ships in Canon. Coincidence?

Also, I agree with statements that it's not the best dreadnaught design. I would also agree that it exceeds 24 squadrons.

Hope this helps.

 

[mike wightman]

Aslan have no genetic link to terrestrial feline species at all.

Stop propagating this myth, they were not discovered due to a freak jump drive research accident involving a wardrobe

 

[savage]

Aslan have no genetic link to terrestrial feline species at all.

Good point. My oops. :CoW:

Pouncers develop naturally without Ancient intervention like humaniti. :rofl:

Still it's a pretty dumb 3I move.

 

[mike wightman]

Blame the turkish solomani for thinking they looked a bit cat like, could be worse, germans could have named an insect like species...

 

[rancke]

Naming half the fleet "...Tigress" is not going to work out well. Assuming they actually, do verbal communications its a mess.

Ruling out all but one of each tiger, lion, leopard, etc. would be a PitA, so I'm assuming that ultra-tech signal technology is up to the challenge.

Also, there are many nationalities on Earth and in 3I that have pouncers beyond those listed. Looking for different languages is one approach.

Didn't I include one or two of those? Anyway, going that way makes things too easy. Just by going with Danish I could practically triple the pool of potential names (Danish has two ways to create a feminine form, the prefix 'hun-' and the suffix '-inde'. So Huntiger, Tigerinde, Hunløve, Løvinde, etc.. I very much doubt I'll be expanding the list to the full 200, but if I do, I'll probably use some foreign language names.

And it's not just any pouncers. It's Terran great cats, Terran great cats transplanted to other worlds, and alien pouncers named after Terran great cats. Genus Panthera and its copycats¹, so to speak.

¹ Pun intended. ​

What message is this sending to the Aslan? Our best ship is named for their genetic peer. Do they call their ships, "apes"?

That's not down to me, is it? The Tigress class is canonical. But if you ask me, it tells the Aslans that the Emperor doesn't lie awake at night thinking about how important it is to placate the Aslans.

The first 3 ships are the named ships in Canon. Coincidence?

No coincidence at all. Tiger, lion, and panther are three names that springs readily to mind when thinking about great cats. Which is presumably why the original writers came up with those names for the three ships they named. I assumed that they would likewise spring to the mind of the big brains at the [Imperial Naval Office for Coming up with Ship Names].

(It's three of the first four ships, BTW.. I put Leopardess before Pantheress, precisely to lessen the match a mite.)

And while I would include the Lioness and the Pantheress in the list of the eight Tigresses stationed in the Spinward Marches (because canon says they are), I don't think I'd include any other of the first eight built. Unless some Traveller writer has the lack of originality to name another Spinward Marches Tigress, Leopardess.

Also, I agree with statements that it's not the best dreadnaught design?

If someone sits down and designs a Tigress that works I'll be the first to applaud, but it's really not what I'm concerned about here.

Hope this helps.

I certainly appreciate the display of good will. Our arguments have not made me angry with you and I'm pleased to see that they haven't made you angry with me. Thank you.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Still it's a pretty dumb 3I move.

Not really. Aslan clan lords won't take offense unless it serves their purpose to take offense. And if it does, they'll find something to take offense over.

Now, if the Imperium named a ship the Eaka Fteirle, some Aslan clan lords might feel unable to avoid taking offense. But what are they going to do about it? Go to war with the Imperium?


Hans

 

[savage]

Ruling out all but one of each tiger, lion, leopard, etc. would be a PitA, so I'm assuming that ultra-tech signal technology is up to the challenge.

Ok. Must disagree though, it interferes with all sorts of communications. I think you can be more original.

Didn't I include one or two of those? Anyway, going that way makes things too easy. Just by going with Danish I could practically triple the pool of potential names (Danish has two ways to create a feminine form, the prefix 'hun-' and the suffix '-inde'. So Huntiger, Tigerinde, Hunløve, Løvinde, etc.. I very much doubt I'll be expanding the list to the full 200, but if I do, I'll probably use some foreign language names.

And it's not just any pouncers. It's Terran great cats, Terran great cats transplanted to other worlds, and alien pouncers named after Terran great cats. Genus Panthera and its copycats¹, so to speak.

¹ Pun intended. ​

That's not down to me, is it? The Tigress class is canonical. But if you ask me, it tells the Aslans that the Emperor doesn't lie awake at night thinking about how important it is to placate the Aslans.

There might be more named in GT:Starships. I'd have to check.

This a storyline point on my part. I think there are very colorful views that could be documented. But not an attempt to alter canon.

Also, I bet many refs may be misusing the Tigress in battle.

No coincidence at all. Tiger, lion, and panther are three names that springs readily to mind when thinking about great cats. Which is presumably why the original writers came up with those names for the three ships they named. I assumed that they would likewise spring to the mind of the big brains at the [Imperial Naval Office for Coming up with Ship Names].

(It's three of the first four ships, BTW.. I put Leopardess before Pantheress, precisely to lessen the match a mite.)

And while I would include the Lioness and the Pantheress in the list of the eight Tigresses stationed in the Spinward Marches (because canon says they are), I don't think I'd include any other of the first eight built. Unless some Traveller writer has the lack of originality to name another Spinward Marches Tigress, Leopardess.


If someone sits down and designs a Tigress that works I'll be the first to applaud, but it's really not what I'm concerned about here.


I certainly appreciate the display of good will. Our arguments have not made me angry with you and I'm pleased to see that they haven't made you angry with me. Thank you.


Hans

YW. I agree with your design comment. If someone designs a better canon Tigress class it would be a nice start. I re-wrote it in T20 for my needs and I know there have been several updates to the graphics. I have the original hanging in my home office, so i keep an open eye. But I admit, first time i saw this thread.

 

[rancke]

Ok. Must disagree though, it interferes with all sorts of communications. I think you can be more original.

I'm afraid not. Oh, I can come up with some new names for Terran great cats transplanted to other worlds by the Ancients, but of the five I've come up with so far, three partly duplicate lions, and tigers, and leopards (And the fourth would be quite confusing to verbal recognition):

Kashan (Panthera kashan): Species belonging to the Felidae family of Sphere Terra. It diverged from the Sylean lion some 250,000 years ago.


Khukan tiger (Panthera tigris khukhensis): Subspecies of the Terran tiger (Panthera tigris). Evolved from population transplanted to Khukhi/Sanches (Core 0612) 300,000 years ago by the Ancients.


Lopard (Panthera aslani): Species belonging to the Felidae family of Sphere Terra. It diverged from the Randarian leopard around 270,000 years ago. Its common name is derived from its characteristic loping gait; its taxonomic name honors noted 1st Century philanthropist Enrico Aslan.


Randarian leopard (Panthera pardus randarensis): Subspecies of the Terran leopard (Panthera pardus). Evolved from population transplanted to Randar/Bunkeria (Core 0221) 300,000 years ago by the Ancients.


Sylean lion (Panthera leo sylensis): Subspecies of the Terran lion (Panthera leo). Evolved from population transplanted to Capital/Core(Core 2118) 300,000 years ago by the Ancients.​

So, no, I do not have the originality to come up with 60 names for Tigress class battleships without using compound names that partly duplicate the basic names.


Hans

 

[Vladika]

...Just by going with Danish I could practically triple the pool of potential names (Danish has two ways to create a feminine form, the prefix 'hun-' and the suffix '-inde'. So Huntiger, Tigerinde, Hunløve, Løvinde, etc.. I very much doubt I'll be expanding the list to the full 200, but if I do, I'll probably use some foreign language names...

Hans

Hans, just a thought here. If you are considering "foreign" names, how about having the Tigress ships in each Squadron using all the same "foreign" language?

Danish Squadron, German Squadron, French Squadron, etc. That could get you through the whole Tigress Class, have some logical ties, and add quite a bit of color, as well as friendly squadron rivalry.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

How about?

I saw you have a Snow Leopardess but no Snow Tigress listed

That's because the snow leopard is a Terran great cat (or at least a big cat) whereas the snow tiger isn't. Of course, 'snow tiger' might be an alien great cat or an alien carnivore/pouncer with some similarity to a great cat, but I haven't established that it is. Hence no Snow Tigress. At least not yet.


Hans

Ok then. How about the Sabertooth Lioness?

 

[savage]

I'm afraid not. Oh, I can come up with some new names for Terran great cats transplanted to other worlds by the Ancients,...

Hans

I applaud an effort to improve descriptions, for personal use or for other refs, of any canon through non-canon recommendations.

Try some Vilani names or even Vargr for those in the Antares service. Other languages could be Russian, Chinese too.

GT and MgT tries to bolster the capabilities. I'm not well versed in the design systems, so cannot compare.

Per GT:Starships
"...Batrons are usually assigned one per sector."
Per MgT
"...capable of defeating an entire enemy fleet."

Perhaps heavier assignments in the Marches, Corridor and Solomani Rim.