Trader sizes
- Thread starter whartung
- Start date
So, basically, freight only takes over once what would parallel in the TU as, FTL comm, is in place.
Really? I thought it started taking hold a couple decades before, when the ships themselves got more reliable.
Short hauls were being arranged by telegraph in the 1820's. But that's greenwater.
??? Conflating
No just making sure that my understanding for what was said is accurate.
Implying to be valid as inference, and questioning if valid as an inference.
Which I think it is.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The grain trade from the Black Sea region to Athens, the Roman grain trade from Egypt to Rome on board ships specifically built for the trade, the wool trade between England and the Low Countries, the naval stores and mast trade from the Baltic region and the North American colonies to Great Britain and the rest of Europe, the sugar trade from the West Indies to Europe, the spice trade from the Dutch East Indies to Holland and then to Europe, the tobacco and cotton trade from the South to Great Britain, the Tea trade from China and India to Great Britain and Europe.
All of that was pure speculation?
Oh, and then there is the trade between the colonies and Great Britain in custom-built ships. It has been estimated that 1/3 of all British merchant ships at the time of the Revolution had been built for English shipowners in the colonies.
That was speculation too?
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Just that one would account for a higher % of the total. Contract (non spec) freight has been around in shipping since at least the Roman period.
Never said all. Said dominant. Large difference.
And the Roman period, we do have good documentation that most of it was in fact speculation. The ship would be sent with a mixture of coin and goods for sale at the other end, and buy goods known to be desired back home.
Yes, I've seen pics of the accounting that has been found. It is really amazing just how much trade was done and the geographic area covered. Makes one wonder what it would be like if the 'Empire' hadn't folded as it did...
Hi,
Over the years I've come to think that maybe comms really travel a bit faster than "the speed of trade" since a typical merchant ship might maybe do a jump every other month, but comms (at least high-priority ones) could maybe be beamed off an arriving x-boat to any/all outgoing x-boats the same day (and/or any other ships that might have a mail contract) so that those high-priority messages could be a several parsecs (or jumps or whatever) before the merchant ship in question completes its next jump.
Over the years I've come to think that maybe comms really travel a bit faster than "the speed of trade" since a typical merchant ship might maybe do a jump every other month, but comms (at least high-priority ones) could maybe be beamed off an arriving x-boat to any/all outgoing x-boats the same day (and/or any other ships that might have a mail contract) so that those high-priority messages could be a several parsecs (or jumps or whatever) before the merchant ship in question completes its next jump.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I've always just made comms move at J4 per week as it is my assumption that any incoming vessel with "mail" on it transfers that electronically to outgoing ones. While that is a simplification it does make it easy to calculate the arrival time of news and such in a given system from a given point.
Same here, except I assume the existence of jump-6 passenger liners between high-population worlds. All that takes is enough millionaires and high government officials and big corporate muckety-mucks to support a 200T liner a week.
Hans
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I will defer to the omniscient Aramis.
Think about how if the Italian Peninsula had had the semaphore towers in place that a few romans thought of but didn't bother building... they'd have been able to up short range demand trade. Semaphore isn't as good as telegraphy, but it's good enough.
Quite okay - wish I had thought to quote them earlier.
The rulebook provides a plausible scenario - which I doubt most people roleplay or figure into the game. The times I had players finance a ship the loan application was roleplayed - the players had to present a business plan (with help from me in terms of ready made trade figures and basic form as I don't do sandboxes nor 'accountants in space'). I think I only ran one 'trade' game - the rest the bank would only finance with certain other 'conditions'... the lead in to the adventure, naturally.
IMTU
...since the yard is the one actually taking the greatest risk, the yard 'tags' every hull - unique impurities/EM signature - though out the hull material itself. Baring falsifying data or tampering in hull creation - each ship basically has unique and practically (but not impossible) unalterable material properties for forensically establishing a ship's ID.
Given the time it takes to build a ship, the ship's registered signature will be on file at just about any system visited after its construction. The registered owner data, may, however, take some time to catch up. Construction begins after 20% down payment - which means a ship may not get financed that has already been started. Financing may fall through prior to completion or the ship never actually launched with the original intended owner (death, bankruptcy, etc.). This happens in the RW - where yards are commissioned and begin construction, but original purchasers becomes unable or unwilling to make later payments, etc. (Yard may also opt to 'self finance' the rest - but this is unusual IMTU since the bank is the one with government 'defaulter's insurance' and yards would be taking a big risk. But yards are owned or controlled by people who may figure certain risks are okay...)
In such situations, future visited systems may not actually have updated ownership (they can identify the ship by construction signature = yard number and ship number). Ownership records are keyed such that owner can provide a validated transfer update to the system. This is the opening for 'forged papers'. But, the caveat is that the verification system generally would require insider information or decryption of original verification keys - something only available with excellent connections/government level tech. More common method would be to have 'corrupted papers' - then its down to character skill in maneuvering, bluffing and bribing past authorities (and avoiding military involvement :devil
.
...since the yard is the one actually taking the greatest risk, the yard 'tags' every hull - unique impurities/EM signature - though out the hull material itself. Baring falsifying data or tampering in hull creation - each ship basically has unique and practically (but not impossible) unalterable material properties for forensically establishing a ship's ID.
Given the time it takes to build a ship, the ship's registered signature will be on file at just about any system visited after its construction. The registered owner data, may, however, take some time to catch up. Construction begins after 20% down payment - which means a ship may not get financed that has already been started. Financing may fall through prior to completion or the ship never actually launched with the original intended owner (death, bankruptcy, etc.). This happens in the RW - where yards are commissioned and begin construction, but original purchasers becomes unable or unwilling to make later payments, etc. (Yard may also opt to 'self finance' the rest - but this is unusual IMTU since the bank is the one with government 'defaulter's insurance' and yards would be taking a big risk. But yards are owned or controlled by people who may figure certain risks are okay...)
In such situations, future visited systems may not actually have updated ownership (they can identify the ship by construction signature = yard number and ship number). Ownership records are keyed such that owner can provide a validated transfer update to the system. This is the opening for 'forged papers'. But, the caveat is that the verification system generally would require insider information or decryption of original verification keys - something only available with excellent connections/government level tech. More common method would be to have 'corrupted papers' - then its down to character skill in maneuvering, bluffing and bribing past authorities (and avoiding military involvement :devil
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That would have been quite interesting from both the commercial & military aspects. It would have probably greatly prolonged the life of the civilization.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Quite okay - wish I had thought to quote them earlier.
The rulebook provides a plausible scenario - which I doubt most people roleplay or figure into the game. The times I had players finance a ship the loan application was roleplayed - the players had to present a business plan (with help from me in terms of ready made trade figures and basic form as I don't do sandboxes nor 'accountants in space'). I think I only ran one 'trade' game - the rest the bank would only finance with certain other 'conditions'... the lead in to the adventure, naturally.
IMTU
...since the yard is the one actually taking the greatest risk, the yard 'tags' every hull - unique impurities/EM signature - though out the hull material itself. Baring falsifying data or tampering in hull creation - each ship basically has unique and practically (but not impossible) unalterable material properties for forensically establishing a ship's ID.
Given the time it takes to build a ship, the ship's registered signature will be on file at just about any system visited after its construction. The registered owner data, may, however, take some time to catch up. Construction begins after 20% down payment - which means a ship may not get financed that has already been started. Financing may fall through prior to completion or the ship never actually launched with the original intended owner (death, bankruptcy, etc.). This happens in the RW - where yards are commissioned and begin construction, but original purchasers becomes unable or unwilling to make later payments, etc. (Yard may also opt to 'self finance' the rest - but this is unusual IMTU since the bank is the one with government 'defaulter's insurance' and yards would be taking a big risk. But yards are owned or controlled by people who may figure certain risks are okay...)
In such situations, future visited systems may not actually have updated ownership (they can identify the ship by construction signature = yard number and ship number). Ownership records are keyed such that owner can provide a validated transfer update to the system. This is the opening for 'forged papers'. But, the caveat is that the verification system generally would require insider information or decryption of original verification keys - something only available with excellent connections/government level tech. More common method would be to have 'corrupted papers' - then its down to character skill in maneuvering, bluffing and bribing past authorities (and avoiding military involvement :devil
If you are going to play with your post's type, could you maybe give some thought to those of us who might have not perfect vision? I had to copy your post into my word processing program to read it.
