traveller military orginization

[trader jim]

how many people in a fire team??
how many people in a squad?
how many people in a platoon?
how many people in a company?
how many people in a regiment?

how many squads make a platoon?
how many platoons make a company?
how many companys make a regiment?

how many officers are there and who commands what?
how many NCOs are there and who commands what?
i used to know all this - someone refresh my memory-----thanx trader jim

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by trader jim:
how many people in a fire team??
how many people in a squad?
how many people in a platoon?
how many people in a company?
how many people in a regiment?

how many squads make a platoon?
how many platoons make a company?
how many companys make a regiment?

how many officers are there and who commands what?
how many NCOs are there and who commands what?
i used to know all this - someone refresh my memory-----thanx trader jim

From memory:

The Imperium uses a 41 man platoon, divided into 2 sections of 2 squads of 2 fire teams each.

Fireteam: 4
Squad: 9 (2 F/T and Corporal)
Section: 19 (2 Squads and Lance-Sergeant)
Platoon: 41 (2 Sections and 3 man HQ, Platoon Commander, Platoon Sergeant (Sgt) and Signaller?)

Those numbers I'm fairly sure of. It's an interesting and usable structure, although lacking a reserve, but with 57th century firepower it's probably far more flexible.

A Company is 3 platoons and an HQ element (147?), a battalion is 3 coys and support weapons (~500). A reinforced battalion (i.e. an all arms battlegroup) is ISTR 635 men.

Regiment is (from FFW) 5 Battalions, Brigade is 2 regiments (the equivalent of a modern Division) and Division is 2 Brigades (a small Corps in modern terms).

This is the CT organisation. TNE and GURPS Traveller has a different orgchart much more like the modern US Army.

There is a single officer in a platoon (LT), several in a company (Captain as commander, LT as 2i/c, maybe others like an artillery officer attached) and loads in a Battalion (Lt Col commanding, Major as 2i/c, Captain as adjutant, then 1-2 Quartermasters (Majors), intelligence officers etc.)

Regiment is commanded by a full colonel, Brigades by a Brigadier (1 star), Division by a Major General 2 star), Corps by a Lt General (3 star), Field Armies by a General (4 star) and there may be a rank of Field Marshal (5 star).

NCO's are more debatable. A Fireteam is commanded by a Lance-Corporal, Squad by a Corporal, Section by a Lance-Sergeant. Beyond this there's usually an officer commanding, at platoon theres a Sergeant, at Company a First Sergeant and at Battalion a Sergeant-Major.

Staff Sergeant is a funny rank, and is probably reserved for Quartermaster Sergeants and the like, or for any non-commissioned platoon commanders (which does happen a lot in war).

Note: a lot of this is from Book 4, and doesn't fit exactly the current US or UK models.

Bryn

PS: It's got errors but see http://www.geocities.com/littlegreenmen.geo/Extolay.htm

 

[gardclan]

Just for comparison, the organization table for an armor company used in the curent US Army followed like this when I was in the service:

One armor company consists of 14 tanks, two hummers and a supply truck. The 14 tanks are broken down into 3 platoons of 4 tanks each, plus two command tanks (CO and XO). The CO has his own tank and one hummer for short jaunts. The First sergeant has his own hummer and his driver is typically the unit armorer or master gunner.

The supply section is usually detatched to batallion HQ. The XO has his own tank, and serves to command the company in the CO's absence. The XO is also responsible for quartering parties and such.

Each platoon consists of two line tanks and two command/line tanks. Each tank has a crew of four and constitutes what is effectively a squad. Platoon leader and Platoon sergeant both have their own tanks. Line tanks are commanded by sergeants or staff sergeants (E5 - E6).

In practice and when on maneuver, an armor company will have "attachments". In the 1st Cav, we typically had our 14 tanks, one ADA track (Air defense artillery, almost always a vulcan), one medic track, one mechanic track and one mechanic heavy recovery track. Due to the odd missions we used to get, we also often attached two or three scout tracks. (APC's with recon oriented grunts aboard. Really handy chaps btw. This is a simplification, but you get the picture.)

Four companies or armor and one headquarters company make up the batallion. Headquarters company is composed of medic, mechanic, commo, admin, intel, and supply sections.

Platoons are typically commanded by first or second lieutenants. Companies are commanded by captains. Batallions are commanded by lt colonels, or (rarely) by majors.

Brigade structure is similar to Batallions, with a similar brigade level hq company, which has smaller sections servicing only the brigade staff and command section. Brigades are commanded by colonels.

Two or more brigades compose a division. Division level also has its own artillery, air defense, comsec, intel, and cartography sections. Divisions are commanded by two or three star generals.

 

[Craig]

Some info from my Army days:

My NG artillery battery usually drilled with four guns, each of which had one towed tube and a singe 2 1/2 ton prime mover. Each gun crew consisted of one NCO section chief (usually a sergeant, sometimes a good corporal) and a gunner, assistant gunner, and about three other privates or SP4s. These four guns were usually divided into two sections of two guns each.

In addition to the guns, we had a maintenance section of three men, a supply section of two men, and a commo section of two men. Each section had a Humvee or a truck, depending on their needs. The fire direction and control section had about five men in two humvees.

There were three officers: the CO was usually a Cpt or 1Lt, while the XO and the FCO were Lieutenants. The CO and XOs had their own Humvees, while the FCO rode with the FDC. The XO's had a staff sergeant driver, who ran the TOC out of that vehicle. Finally, the First Sergeant usually rode with the CO, with the NBC NCO (that's me) acting as driver and RTO.

As for a Mech Infantry Battalion command center, you should have about five tracks (or gravs, or hovers). You'll have the COs track, which usually is with one of the line units. That one should be a variant of a line track, with similar capabilities. The following tracks are still armored, but unarmed: an artillery track, an intel (S2) track, a planning (S3) track, and a air/orbital support track. The M577s we were using had extensions which enabled you to set up a tent-like structure off the back of the tracks. Add about two Humvees (or equivalent) and a truck for hauling around assorted supplies, and you have a workable command post.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

It's a long strange story about how I went from being a FIST plotter (that's "Foward Observer" to you Air Force weenies out there) to tank crew, but there are several things....

1) US Army units are organized by and large in the tripod system: two in the assault and one in the reserve to exploit breakthroughs. Our doctrine is still the basic doctrine of WWII: combined arms, fire and manuver. The most perfect expression of this doctrine is the Armored Cavalry Regiment. It contains infantry, armor, artillery, and air assets along with most of the support it needs.

2) GURPS Traveller has not one but two sources for this kind of material: Star Mercs and Ground Forces. Both are VERY worth picking up. I really liked their method of organizing an army in the 57th Century.

Gani O'Flynn
Captain and Master of the Wastrel's Bride

who once was...

CR Hicks Jr.
Corporal (and Gunner)
C/2 Sdn, 11th ACR
"Blackhorse!"

 

[justacaveman]

Good info guys!

BTW Darth I was one those scouts in my Army days.
Basically a recon oriented grunt as you say.
Did some Air Cav stuff too.

 

[BMonnery]

Hi,

I've checked book 4:

Unit (Number) Commander Senior NCO
Fireteam (4) Corporal
Squad (9) Lance Sergeant
Section (19) Sergeant
Platoon (41) Lieutenant Gunnery Sergeant
Company (127) Captain Leading Sergeant
Battalion (635)Lt. Colonel Sergeant Major

So at each level up to platoon it's 2 lower units plus a NCO in command. Platoon is 2 sections with a 3 man HQ (LT, SGT and SIG). Company has a 6 man HQ (CPT, LT, 2x SIG and ?), while Battalion has 5 companies, one of which will be a HQ and CSS Company, and another may be a MSp Coy (Heavy Weapons, Engineers, Recce, Mortars etc.)

Regiment is 5x Bns, Bde is 2x Rgt, Div is 2x Bde, Corps is 5x Div and Field Army is 5x Corps

Bryn

 

[gardclan]

Originally posted by LordRhys:
BTW Darth I was one those scouts in my Army days. Basically a recon oriented grunt as you say. Did some Air Cav stuff too.

Despite the long standing rivalry between armor and infantry, tank crews have a soft spot in their hearts for cav scouts. (Even if they don't admit it.) The M1 will outrun and outmaneuver a Bradley with frightening ease, but they're still unwieldly for scouting. A tank can do some amazing things with the right crew, but you still need eyes and ears. The scouts filled that role nicely.

Our CO once complimented the our overworked scout section in front of the Batallion commander, whom retorted something about the scouts being "just infantry". Our CO replied...

"They're not just infantry, sir... they're scouts. OUR scouts."

'bout sums it up.

 

[DrSkull]

There's a set of articles at:

www.strategypage.com

that talks about the organization of military units in military science fiction novels.

 

[justacaveman]

Improper use of recon assets has lost many a battle, ask Gen. George Armstrong Custer.

 

[Prometheus]

With the the dynamic Impact that technology has on militray structure and doctrine it is hard sometimes to accept the old ways .. but oddly enough they work . I have been watching the US Army's Land Warrior and IBCT concept evelove for the past few years. It would be worth checking out. Especially the C4I Concept. It would be very appropriate for the TL:9-11 Concept of organization. For me it gets hazy in the TL:14-15 with the merging of Grave tank and Gunship capability ... Maybe the 1st Cav Division (Airmoble) concept from vietnam? any thoughts.
Also anybody thought of Murphy's Laws would apply at Higher tech levels?

 

[Golan2072]

IMTU, the Solar Triumvirate Marine Corps (mid-TL12) uses the following Platoon formation (based on Aliens and Traveller LBB4):

Each fireteam has 3 soldiers, one of them either a Corporal or a Sergeant; the two others are Privates (in a Rifle Team) or a Private and a Private First Class (in a Plasma Team; the PGMP-12 gunner is almost always the PFC).

Each Squad is composed of 2 Fireteams, and commanded by a Sergeant, who also commands one of the Fireteams (as Book4 says), and thus is 6 soldiers strong. A Squad is usually composed of one Rifle Team and one Plasma Team.

Unlike the Solar Triumvirate Army, the Marines scip the Section level (again, I've got this idea from Book4).

Each Platoon has 3 Squads, and is commanded by a First Lt. CO and a Gunnery Sergeant XO; additional Platoon-level personnel include a Medic (usually a Corporal or Lance Sergeant), a C3I specialist (Sergeant), a Dropship Pilot ("Navy" Sub Lt.) and a Dropship Gunner ("Navy" Able Spacehand). The Platoon rides on a 30-dton Dropship, which serves also as combat transport and a support vehicle (ship lasers are quite effective against personnel/vehicles). Thus, a Marine Platoon has 24 men total; 3 PGMP-12's, with the rest of the men armed with ACRs (Gauss Rifles are only being introduced). In addition, the dropship carries several tac missiles, flamers and auto-sentry guns (cheap robot LMGs).

Beyond the Platoon level, you should expect the force to have fighter support, a Combat Engineering detachment (a Fireteam on a Company, more on larger forces) and a Ground Support department (an AFV Squad in Companys; an AFV Platoon in Battalions).

EDIT: Forgot to mention that a Marine Platoon, if carried independantly, uses a 600-dton Assualt Frigate for transportation; if carried as part of a larger force, ofcourse, the force as a whole uses a larger ship.

 

[aramis]

Looking in the MT Ref's Companion:

Fireteam: 4 infantry, EIC not defined.
Team, non-infantry: 2,3, or 4; only a 5 man crew would have a team of 2 (2 and 3); otherwise 3 or 4 men teams form the crew of a vehicle or weapon.
Vehicle: 2-3 team vehicles are squads. some vehicles are not squads individually. Most vehicles with a single team are a squad; potential exceptions are non-vehicle units (Like Grave Bike Cav... a squad might be two vehicles... each with a crew of two
Squad: 1 vehicle or 2-3 teams One NCO, either from within a team or extra
Section: 2 squads. NCOIC either a SqdNCO or separate NCO
Platoon: 2-5 squads... plus a command group of 1-6 persons; command group includes the CO, the PNCO (if not a Sq or Section NCO), and 0-4 enlisted flunkies. +1 FO if Arty.
Plt Command group may have 2,3 or 4 man teams.
Vehicle Companies have one command vehicle, and 2-5 "working" vehicles. Co is in command vehicle.
Company: 2-5 plt, 1-10 person command group.
Vehicle Co: aka Troop: 2-5 vehicle platoons, plus a command group of 1-3 vehicles and not more than 10 persons.
Battery: Artillery Company.
Battalion: 2-5 co, plus 8-30 man command group
Squadron: 2-5 troops, plus as many vehicles as the command group operates.
large vehicle crews:
a 4-6 team vehicle would be a section; a platoon would be a command vehicle plus 2 op vehicles.
a 6-10 team vehicle would be 1 plt per vehicle.
etc...

from RebSB (abbreviations mine, from USArmy sources):
Army: Several Corps, CO=Gen 500BSP
Corps: several Div, CO=Lt Gen 50-100BSP
Division (Div): Several brigades, or several regiments, CO=MGen 20 BSP
Brigade (Bde): Several Rgt or Bn. CO=BGen 10BSP
Regiment (Rgt): Several Bn. CO=Col. 3-7 BSP
Battalion (Bn): Several Co. CO=Major, Force Commander, or LtCdr. 1-2 BSP
Company (Co): Several platoons, CO=Capt. BSP not listed.
Platoon (Plt): Several Squads, commanded by 2Lt, or 1Lt. BSP not listed.
Squad (Sqd): Several Soldiers, commanded by a Sergeant. BSP not listed.

BSP- Battalion Strength Points. BSP are not defined, but in practice, an infantry Bn is usually a 1 BSP and armor is usually 2... see Invasion Earth for samples. (the data in RebSB is based upon Inv.Earth, and shows the counter layout...)

 

[aramis]

Now, from MTU...

certain elite merc units use:
3 man FT: 2 pvts and a LCpl/Cpl
2 FT + Sgt/SSgt = Sqd
1 Tank=Sqd
3Sqd + Sgt1C + Lt = Plt
3 Plt + 1Sgt + Cpt (CO) + 1Lt (XO) + 1Lt/2Lt (Ops) +5StaffNCO(Medic, Supply, Intel, Admin, Commo)= Co
2-3 Co + Maj (Co) + Cpt (XO) + Bn1Sgt+ 5 LT's (Ops, Admin, Supply, PAO, Intel) + 5 Staff NCO = Bn
2+ Bn + Col (CO) + LtCol (XO) + Maj (Ops) + 5x Capt/1Lt (Med, Admin, Intel, Supply, PAO) + 5xStaff NCO + Reg SgtMaj = Rgt.

this runs a strong bit low, but, in practice, I use this for extremely heavy firepower units. (One unit, the 3076th Bounce Infantry Regiment, used a 2 rifleman + 1 HW battledress team... the riflemen were using custom high-power autorifles... the HW were PGMP-13's... all were in BD-13 with all the options. the unit was self mobile... and drop trained and capable.)

I tend to rely more upon the low end, so I tend to use the Ref's Companion material more than the RebSB materials. One campaign, however, used IE to resolve the marine landings upon the planet.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually in most militaries, Regiment and Brigade are mutually exclusive. They are equivalent levels. The difference is that a Regiment is historically more dependent on higher echelons for support and a Brigade is better equipped for independent operations. Notice I said historically. In the US Army a Cav Regiment is every bit as capable in independent operations and generally has more firepower than a typical US Brigade. Today they imply the same level, similar in status, like a Batalon vs Squadron, or Company vs Battery. The 3rd Armored Cavalary Regiment and the 6th Calvary Brigade (Air Combat) are both at the same level in the chain of command, (or were 10 years ago) are both commanded by a Brigader General, and have similar organization structures. Where the 3rd was (again 10 years ago) 3 Ground Squadrons and one Air Squadron, the 6th was 4 Air Squadrons.

You are extremely unlikely to find Regiments in a Brigade. Though in the old Soviet Model you might find several Artillery Regiments OP-Con (In Operational Control) to an Independent Tank Brigade, they still don't belong to the Tank Brigade.

Originally posted by Aramis:
Looking in the MT Ref's Companion:


from RebSB (abbreviations mine, from USArmy sources):
Army: Several Corps, CO=Gen 500BSP
Corps: several Div, CO=Lt Gen 50-100BSP
Division (Div): Several brigades, or several regiments, CO=MGen 20 BSP
Brigade (Bde): Several Rgt or Bn. CO=BGen 10BSP
Regiment (Rgt): Several Bn. CO=Col. 3-7 BSP
Battalion (Bn): Several Co. CO=Major, Force Commander, or LtCdr. 1-2 BSP

 

[BetterThanLife]

3 man fire teams? Interesting. Kind of sidesteps the old military ideal that everyone has one buddy they are responsible for and who is responsible for them. (Two = one, one = none) It also causes problems when it comes time to defend an area. generally foxholes are set up as two person positions. (Primarily so you aren't falling asleep by yourself, and because nobody in a defensive position fires straight ahead. (You fire out at an angle left and right from a position, and deny an enemy a straight shot from their lines into your position.)

Originally posted by Aramis:
Now, from MTU...

certain elite merc units use:
3 man FT: 2 pvts and a LCpl/Cpl
2 FT + Sgt/SSgt = Sqd
1 Tank=Sqd
3Sqd + Sgt1C + Lt = Plt
3 Plt + 1Sgt + Cpt (CO) + 1Lt (XO) + 1Lt/2Lt (Ops) +5StaffNCO(Medic, Supply, Intel, Admin, Commo)= Co
2-3 Co + Maj (Co) + Cpt (XO) + Bn1Sgt+ 5 LT's (Ops, Admin, Supply, PAO, Intel) + 5 Staff NCO = Bn
2+ Bn + Col (CO) + LtCol (XO) + Maj (Ops) + 5x Capt/1Lt (Med, Admin, Intel, Supply, PAO) + 5xStaff NCO + Reg SgtMaj = Rgt.

this runs a strong bit low, but, in practice, I use this for extremely heavy firepower units. (One unit, the 3076th Bounce Infantry Regiment, used a 2 rifleman + 1 HW battledress team... the riflemen were using custom high-power autorifles... the HW were PGMP-13's... all were in BD-13 with all the options. the unit was self mobile... and drop trained and capable.)

I tend to rely more upon the low end, so I tend to use the Ref's Companion material more than the RebSB materials. One campaign, however, used IE to resolve the marine landings upon the planet.

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
Actually in most militaries, Regiment and Brigade are mutually exclusive. They are equivalent levels. The difference is that a Regiment is historically more dependent on higher echelons for support and a Brigade is better equipped for independent operations. Notice I said historically. In the US Army a Cav Regiment is every bit as capable in independent operations and generally has more firepower than a typical US Brigade. Today they imply the same level, similar in status, like a Batalon vs Squadron, or Company vs Battery. The 3rd Armored Cavalary Regiment and the 6th Calvary Brigade (Air Combat) are both at the same level in the chain of command, (or were 10 years ago) are both commanded by a Brigader General, and have similar organization structures. Where the 3rd was (again 10 years ago) 3 Ground Squadrons and one Air Squadron, the 6th was 4 Air Squadrons.

You are extremely unlikely to find Regiments in a Brigade. Though in the old Soviet Model you might find several Artillery Regiments OP-Con (In Operational Control) to an Independent Tank Brigade, they still don't belong to the Tank Brigade.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:
Looking in the MT Ref's Companion:


from RebSB (abbreviations mine, from USArmy sources):
Army: Several Corps, CO=Gen 500BSP
Corps: several Div, CO=Lt Gen 50-100BSP
Division (Div): Several brigades, or several regiments, CO=MGen 20 BSP
Brigade (Bde): Several Rgt or Bn. CO=BGen 10BSP
Regiment (Rgt): Several Bn. CO=Col. 3-7 BSP
Battalion (Bn): Several Co. CO=Major, Force Commander, or LtCdr. 1-2 BSP

</font>[/QUOTE]The issues of Regiments and Brigades is really more one of Branch integrity. Regiments are Branch "pure" where as Brigades are combinded arms. Regiments historically were given training responsibilities and were permenant formations, where as Brigades were organized based on tactical need. Gustavus Adolphus started using Brigades as part of his military revolution. He would collect his regiments together in groups to get the numbers he needed for his tactical system. The size of the Brigade was fixed but the number of Regiments in the Brigade was based on how many soldiers the Regiment had on a given day.

In the British system Regiments were territorially based and trained Battalions which were shipped off to field Armies. Once they arrived in theater these battalions were "Brigaded" together for field operations. There were always exceptions (the Highland Regiments for example), but in general, Brigades were tactical formations and Regiments were logistical.

The US Army ACRs are Regiments in name only. They are the ultimate Brigade with mounted troops, tanks, and arty all combined at the Squadron level. Cav as a Branch has essentially been replaced by Armor in the US Army.

Hope it helps...

 

[Ranger]

Regiments and Brigades (continued)

So, to pick up where I left off (and to add stuff I didn't remember until this morning). The French system was one of Regiments and Brigades with each Bridage being composed of 2 Regiments. This system grew out of the Wars of the French Revolution (it was a product of mixing Royal Army and National Guard Regiments for battle). Each Regiment originally consisted of 3 Battalions, 1 Depot and 2 Field. The Depot Battalion was a training unit that provided troops for the Field Battalions. Two Regiments were Brigaded together, usually fielding a Brigade of 3 full strength Battalions. Each Regiment also usually had 2 Infantry guns which were prolonged (pushed by the troops rather than pulled by horses). The Brigade often combined these prolonged guns into a small battery of 4 guns.

Napoleon tried to reform this system for a few reasons (it sometimes resulted in odd sized Brigades, many of the depot battalions were co-located and therefore duplicating functions and keeping too many troops in the garrisons). Napoleon wanted every Regiment to have 1 depot and 5 field battalions and the 5 field battalions plus a battery of field guns would be 1 Brigade. This system created a standard Brigade of 5 infantry battalions all trained by the same base and eleminated the need for the infantry depots to train gunners. This sytem was just begining to be implemented in 1812 when Napoleon invaded Russia. The best divisions of the Grand Army was built on these Regimental Brigades, but over half the Army was still using the old composite Brigade system.

 

[aramis]

The British system used Regiments as units which were never actually field deployed in total; the ready Battalions would be directly forwarded to brigades, while the regiment itself was split between home and posting, at least during the 1700-1900's. Regimental identity is usually (but not entirely) geographically based.

The early US system tended to deploy whole regiments.

The whole concept of a regiment was a large body of troops in regiment (IE, organized into an army) comprised of tree battailles (Battles): Vanguard, Body, and Hearthguard.... Each company of troops would be assigned to one of the three battaille's... The vanguard typically went in first, broke to the left, and formed you left wing. The hearthgaurd generall was last to the field, and formed to the right.

Directly from the mediaeval usage evolved the Regiment and Battalions...

 

[PBI]

Except Commonwealth militaries (at least the UK and Canada, anyway), do have regiments inside brigades. Granted, it's not always the full regiment (one or two battalions may be deployed seperately, depending on whether or not the regiment is a 3 or 4 battallion model), but a single regiment is usually the core around which a brigade is built.

Of course, that's a bit non-standard

Usually, yes, one finds either regiments or brigades at the operational level.