CT Only: Traveller Tech Levels

[Badenov]

And how do you achieve those...
lower bore axis, integral compensator, integral electronic sight, improved ammunition

smarter bullets are certainly a possibility.

Range, accuracy, effect, cost, bulk, user friendly.

Without magnetic propulsion, you would have to change the ammunition, and the ammunition depends on kinetic energy, which can be enhanced with explosives, penetration, armour piercing cap, and accuracy, possibly electronic guidance.

On the subject of firearms, Mg1 does have advanced explosives, so they can presumablably be used to make more potent bullets.
But this is all aside from handheld versions of the meson guns and particle cannons I feel are missing from the game. If the pinnacle of weapons design at TL7 that started with a TL2 cannon is now a colt 1911, itself a TL4-era device however modified, then it would make sense for there to be at TL15 a handheld version of say the shipboard TL10 plasma gun. The PGMP (is this MG-only?) is close to what I'm thinking, or the FGMP for the miniaturized Fusion Gun but I'm looking at something more like a pistol-sized hand weapon that does the same thing rather than handheld artillery. There are handheld versions of laser weapons - they're heavier than firearms, but they hit a bit harder, though not substantially. Mostly it seems they're ignored and I'm not clear on why, and why the other weapons - particle accelerators and meson guns - never made the transition.

With respect to FIREARMS, Shotguns are allowed at Law Level 6 when ALL OTHER firearms are illegal, so the smoothbore weapons (Shotgun & Snub) certainly deserve a lot more attention as well as some fleshing out on the LL of a Tranq round Snub weapon (it is NON-LETHAL, so LL 7?)

Lasers are legal on VERY FEW worlds (and too darn bulky with the backpacks that already use magic batteries).

The Law Level will indeed keep them out of the hands of 'typical' travellers, but Space Marines should be armed with something better than some 5000-year old revolver.

 

[atpollard]

The Law Level will indeed keep them out of the hands of 'typical' travellers, but Space Marines should be armed with something better than some 5000-year old revolver.

Recoil is recoil. KE is KE.

TL3 = Blunderbuss
TL4 = Double Barrel Coach Gun
TL5 = Pump Action Trench Gun
TODAY = Semi-Auto Shougun / Full-Auto Shotgun

Ammo has made some improvements and Actions (loading) has made significant improvement, but MARINES have employed roughly the same Ammo at roughly the same KE for hundreds of years because it does the job well.

 

[Condottiere]

There are two aspects to firearms:

1. Can the gunpowder formula be improved?

2. And recoil.

Recoil tends to affect accuracy and rate of fire, and better gunpowder may create more recoil.

So, outside of adding gravitational gadgetry to the firearm, you'd have to find a mechanical solution for recoil.

 

[Badenov]

Recoil is recoil. KE is KE.

TL3 = Blunderbuss
TL4 = Double Barrel Coach Gun
TL5 = Pump Action Trench Gun
TODAY = Semi-Auto Shougun / Full-Auto Shotgun

Ammo has made some improvements and Actions (loading) has made significant improvement, but MARINES have employed roughly the same Ammo at roughly the same KE for hundreds of years because it does the job well.

Ammo has changed a lot in the last hundreds of years. Propellant has changed from black powder to cordite to modern cordite-adjacent admixtures, and slugs from lead to jacketed lead to complicated penetrators to glaser rounds. Marines have typically stayed on top of the TL curve rather than using the old standbys. They still use firearms now because we haven't invented anything better, yet. By TL15, I hope we've come up with something!

There are two aspects to firearms:

1. Can the gunpowder formula be improved?

2. And recoil.

Recoil tends to affect accuracy and rate of fire, and better gunpowder may create more recoil.

So, outside of adding gravitational gadgetry to the firearm, you'd have to find a mechanical solution for recoil.

And recoil is what powered armor is for. But in Zero G, you may want a zero recoil option. Then you want a laser or other energy weapon.

 

[Condottiere]

If you have powered armour on, you have better options for a handgun.

 

[kilemall]

There are two aspects to firearms:

1. Can the gunpowder formula be improved?

2. And recoil.

Recoil tends to affect accuracy and rate of fire, and better gunpowder may create more recoil.

So, outside of adding gravitational gadgetry to the firearm, you'd have to find a mechanical solution for recoil.

Third component to chemical propelled round guns as Striker styles it- metallurgy, the ability of the firearm to contain and direct the chemical explosion without bursting or losing energy.

Finally, an often overlooked aspect is form factor- the ability of the shooter to handle and direct the weapon. Effectively a process of miniaturizing larger weapons to one that human strength and dexterity can manage and aim.

The battle dress/MP weapon interaction breaks this chain, other heavier crew served weapons could be carried or mounted on walker like suits from 2300.

Melee weapons could also be bigger and heavier, an actual BD suit cutlass can be heavier and thus more kinetic energy brought to bear.

 

[kilemall]

My progression is caseless rounds TL9 allowing for more rounds per cartridge but at same power as earlier TL form factors, ACR rounds at TL10 as per Striker, ETC rounds at TL11 which is +1 pen over ACR, then the gauss and X-ray lasers.

Probably should be a radiation component to the X-ray lasers, there is your PA handheld.

I consider the 5 ton PA barbette to be a gamma ray lasers, probably a hand held version a couple TLs later.

I also have ATR form factor guns of varying mechanics equivalent to TL on penetration stat through TL12.

 

[JimCook]

I wonder if grav technology could be miniaturized enough to mitigate recoil in rifles or pistols?

While not grav technology, I think I remember in one of the rule sets it was mentioned that gauss riles were gyro stabilized to keep them on target during automatic fire.

 

[mike wightman]

Caseless rounds bring a few problems.
1 - heat mitigation - the metal case takes a lot of the heat away, without it you will need an alternative way to cool the action, or put up with it getting to hot for bare hands after a few shots,
2 - stability of the explosives - see point one

x-rays are radiation by definition

High TL handguns have to answer a few questions:
power density - chemical explosives are very energy dense compared with batteries and capacitors, what sort of breakthrough allows for batteries and or capacitors to be more energy dense than the chemical propellent - why is that energy storage mechanism not extended to other applications.

Using FF&S you can build particle accelerator pistols, meson pistols, plasma pistols, fusion pistols - the TL scale could be ignored so that such weapons could appear at TL12+

 

[mike wightman]

I wonder if grav technology could be miniaturized enough to mitigate recoil in rifles or pistols?

While not grav technology, I think I remember in one of the rule sets it was mentioned that gauss riles were gyro stabilized to keep them on target during automatic fire.

grav stabilisation for personal weapons appears at TL14 in LBB:4

 

[Condottiere]

The only thing that looks like propulsion improvement would be whatever bullets they use for the Confederation Navy ceremonial revolver.

Fractionally speaking.

For a Traveller military, it probably isn't worth the money investing in an improved semi automatic pistol, though I would guess a bullpup mechanism, and somehow compensating recoil through the slider, besides the ammunition.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

I wonder if grav technology could be miniaturized enough to mitigate recoil in rifles or pistols?

While not grav technology, I think I remember in one of the rule sets it was mentioned that gauss riles were gyro stabilized to keep them on target during automatic fire.

At that point why not have mini repulsors shooting high velocity 'bullets' Using grav tech on a gunpowder firearm is like installing a modern tablet into your model T. maybe even more extreme.

 

[mike wightman]

If you can miniaturise grav technology such that it can accelerate bullets up to supersonic speeds in a handgun sized package then what else can you do with such miniaturised grav technology...

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

With respect to FIREARMS, Shotguns are allowed at Law Level 6 when ALL OTHER firearms are illegal, so the smoothbore weapons (Shotgun & Snub) certainly deserve a lot more attention as well as some fleshing out on the LL of a Tranq round Snub weapon (it is NON-LETHAL, so LL 7?)

Lasers are legal on VERY FEW worlds (and too darn bulky with the backpacks that already use magic batteries).

That is an artifact of the Game's Origins in Great Britain and how their culture war on the firearm has proceeded. In the real world, different Jurisdiction have different definitions of illegal at their respective Law Levels. IMTU the law levels are only a rough guidline and your mileage may vary on any given planet.

 

[Condottiere]

Shotguns can be rifled for accuracy, and the slugs are big enough to smartify them.

 

[kilemall]

That is an artifact of the Game's Origins in Great Britain and how their culture war on the firearm has proceeded. In the real world, different Jurisdiction have different definitions of illegal at their respective Law Levels. IMTU the law levels are only a rough guidline and your mileage may vary on any given planet.

Not following the game origins in GB part.

The game originated in the US Midwest and always had law levels.

 

[whartung]

1 - heat mitigation - the metal case takes a lot of the heat away, without it you will need an alternative way to cool the action, or put up with it getting to hot for bare hands after a few shots,

Yea that was a surprising takeaway that I had not considered. It was interesting when I heard that.

The new infantry rifle with its new composite cartridge to help contain the 80,000psi is a novel approach.

The new cartridge is 5% more energy than 7.62 NATO at 90% of the weight. Also a smaller bullet, so likely to penetrate armor better because of that aspect as well.

 

[atpollard]

Shotguns can be rifled for accuracy, and the slugs are big enough to smartify them.

Technically, if you "rifle" it ... it ain't a shotgun any more.

 

[atpollard]

1 - heat mitigation - the metal case takes a lot of the heat away, without it you will need an alternative way to cool the action, or put up with it getting to hot for bare hands after a few shots,

There was some interesting research into combustible plastic casings for "caseless" ammo. It seems Plastic casings insulate the chamber from the heat rather than act as a heat sink and keep the barrel even cooler than copper ... they just have ejection issues with a misfeed (no nice copper rim to pull it out with - an issue with ALL caseless ammo).

 

[whartung]

Technically, if you "rifle" it ... it ain't a shotgun any more.

Without hitting the googles I'm pretty sure a rifle is something with a rifled barrel. So, it's a shotgun with a rifled slug, but that doesn't make it a rifle.

A .22 caliber shooting a shot shell is still a rifle even though it doesn't affect the shot payload. A rifle with a shot shell.

And I don't even want to dip toes into the "Well Mr. Smartypants, what's about a pistol? They have rifled barrels, are they rifles too?"