Type ST Transport Scout: 199Td, J4/2G (LBB2 2nd Ed.)

[Spinward Flow]

Curiously enough, the Fifth Frontier War game included multiple scout squadrons on the Imperial and Zhodani side of play.

You'll quickly notice that the (red) Imperial squadrons included:

• 1x J4 scout squadron
• 1x J3 scout squadron
• 6x J2 scout squadrons

By contrast, the (blue) Zhodani squadrons included:

• 2x J3 scout squadrons
• 4x J2 scout squadrons

It wasn't hard to figure out what kinds of ships went into the J2 squadrons.
The challenge was figuring out what kinds of ships made up the J3 and J4 squadrons for the scouts, because the J4 squadron was NOT a collection of "free ranging XBoats" (or the equivalent).

Equally curiously, in the context of combat support, scout squadrons had "impressive orbital bombardment" capabilities against troops deployed to world surfaces, but had "no attack factor" usable against naval assets or system defense boats in orbital space. Just one of those things that makes you go ... huh?

 

[Spinward Flow]

It then needs an Engineer, a Medic, and two Gunners in addition to the Pilot.

At that point, it's a Long Scout @ J4/2G.

 

[Grav_Moped]

At that point, it's a Long Scout @ J4/2G.

Yes. Not transporting anything -- crew takes up all staterooms.

The 199 ton variant has 3 spare staterooms -- 4 with a stateroom in place of the Air/Raft. Note that the accompanying flavor text suggests that it (the 100-ton Tyoe S, and this one at 199 tons by extension) can be operated single-handed even with the turret armed (pilot/gunner at -1 to each, maybe?)

Another thing is, the "Rules As Written Version" (full power plant fuel) no longer needs to keep to 2G to justify the short-provisioned power plant fuel. Drop another stateroom (computer goes back into wherever undefined space it was before) and add 4Td of M-Drives (Size B -> D). It's now J4/4G and costs about MCr8 more, crew is pilot, gunner. 2 staterooms, 1 Td cargo, no passengers unless crew doubles up (or is one person doing both jobs).

Slide the flight deck aft into the deleted pair of staterooms, and we've almost solved the "staterooms don't actually fit into the hull shape" problem too!

 

[Grav_Moped]

Just one of those things that makes you go ... huh?

They threw rocks (asteroids)?

The challenge was figuring out what kinds of ships made up the J3 and J4 squadrons for the scouts, because the J4 squadron was NOT a collection of "free ranging XBoats" (or the equivalent).

And J3 means 199/200Td with Size C drives (or TL-13 J3/2G from HG in 100Td).

 

[Grav_Moped]

... And here's that brutally ugly hacked version.
I'm not particularly proud of it, but it kinda works.

Source image credit: GDW.

This was just to have a set of deck plans for the thing. The right way to have done it would have been to fix the flawed Sulieman Type S deck plans, then work from the revised version.

Another thing is, the "Rules As Written Version" (full power plant fuel) no longer needs to keep to 2G to justify the short-provisioned power plant fuel

And once you do all that (especially for the 4G variant) it's not at all interesting as a space in which to do RPG-ing... All you need for "deck plans" is to tell the player(s) "It's 199 tons. There are two staterooms, the bridge, the engine room, and 1 ton for luggage. The interior is, obviously, cramped". That's it, no need to draw it up.

 

[Vargr Breath]

This was just to have a set of deck plans for the thing. The right way to have done it would have been to fix the flawed Sulieman Type S deck plans, then work from the revised version.

And once you do all that (especially for the 4G variant) it's not at all interesting as a space in which to do RPG-ing... All you need for "deck plans" is to tell the player(s) "It's 199 tons. There are two staterooms, the bridge, the engine room, and 1 ton for luggage. The interior is, obviously, cramped". That's it, no need to draw it up.

But, But, But I like drawn up deck plans.

 

[Grav_Moped]

But, But, But I like drawn up deck plans.

So do I. So do I.

Seriously, a cut-away isometric drawing would suffice.

It'd be more work, though!

 

[RossWinn]

Why would the Scouts need this? The Xboat network is designed for moving information, and not people. This is deliberate and Canon. There has never even been any rationale. The Naval J6 courier network is also not designed to transport people in any real sense. Individual diplomats possibly, but not an entourage. If you think it's important in your Traveller universe at least have a valid reason. In the 3rd Imperium it makes no sense.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Why would the Scouts need this? The Xboat network is designed for moving information, and not people.

Because they need to move personnel -- reassignments, diplomacy, bringing in subject matter experts -- things like that. Can't really do that by xboat, often can't contract for it, and should not need to rely on the Navy when they have the technical capability in-house.

While the network is (often deliberately) inefficient, it's where they have their personnel, so having a ship that can traverse it while not being tied to it , is valuable.

That's the in-universe justification. As a game element, it's a Type S with J4 and a little ability to survive a hit, that (arguably) works in LBB2. If you only need J3, do it at TL-13 in LBB5 and it's basically identical to the LBB2 original Type S except for having J3 capability.

 

[Spinward Flow]

The Xboat network is designed for moving information, and not people.
Individual diplomats possibly, but not an entourage.

True ... but also incomplete.
The XBoat Network is built for moving information PRIMARILY ... but not EXCLUSIVELY.

Every (LBB2.77) XBoat can transport 1 middle passenger and 1 ton of cargo, in addition to the pilot.
So you're looking at high priority transport of high value people and precious cargo in LIMITED quantities on an emergency basis when necessary as a secondary mission role.

The Naval J6 courier network is also not designed to transport people in any real sense.

The J6 Fleet Courier (LBB S9, p20) is absolutely intended for use for maximum range FAST communications over longer distances, however there is no "organized network" for their use and routing (unlike the XBoat Network with its "lines on maps" that we're all familiar with).

 

[Grav_Moped]

While the network is (often deliberately) inefficient, it's where they have their personnel, so having a ship that can traverse it while not being tied to it , is valuable.

My IMTU use-case is IISS personnel transfers from Glisten/Glisten to Collace/District 268 (8 parsecs). J3 Scout ships are available -- TL-13 Collace re-engines surplus IISS Type Ss as a project to curry favor with the Imperium as well as for their own purposes. Doesn't help them much on the 8-parsec run to Glisten though, only saves a week compared to J-2. There's no scheduled commercial J-4 traffic on the route so that's not an option. So, they have a use for J4 capability.

Yeah, they could do it with LBB5 rules. This allows it (arguably) with LBB2, and is at least cheaper.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Because they need to move personnel -- reassignments, diplomacy, bringing in subject matter experts -- things like that. Can't really do that by xboat, often can't contract for it, and should not need to rely on the Navy when they have the technical capability in-house.

True ... but also incomplete.
The XBoat Network is built for moving information PRIMARILY ... but not EXCLUSIVELY.

Every (LBB2.77) XBoat can transport 1 middle passenger and 1 ton of cargo, in addition to the pilot.
So you're looking at high priority transport of high value people and precious cargo in LIMITED quantities on an emergency basis when necessary as a secondary mission role.

And the (arguably) LBB2'81 compatible variant XBoat* doesn't have passenger capability at all. So if you're moving people on the network, that's not how you do it.

---------------------
*1 week power plant fuel only, a single half-stateroom, and maybe one ton of cargo space. Maybe. House-ruled, but it should work mechanically even if the rules don't allow building ships with less than 4 weeks fuel.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The Naval J6 courier network is also not designed to transport people in any real sense. Individual diplomats possibly, but not an entourage. If you think it's important in your Traveller universe at least have a valid reason. In the 3rd Imperium it makes no sense.

The J6 Fleet Courier (LBB S9, p20) is absolutely intended for use for maximum range FAST communications over longer distances, however there is no "organized network" for their use and routing (unlike the XBoat Network with its "lines on maps" that we're all familiar with).

TTA, p139:
. . Frontier Transport (type TJ): Using a 2000-ton hull, the frontier transport is a cargo carrying freighter employed to serve worlds off the main trade routes. It mounts jump drive-Z, maneuver drive-Z, and power plant-Z, giving a performance of jump 6 and 6G acceleration. Fuel tankage for 1320 tons supports the power plant, and allows one jump 6. Adjacent to the bridge is a computer Model/6. There are 21 staterooms and ten low berths, The ship has 10 hardpoints and 10 tons of fire control allocated. Installed on the hardpoints are ten triple turrets, each mounting three beam lasers. There is one ship's vehicle: a 95 ton shuttle. Cargo capacity is 194 tons (not including a potential 70 tons aboard the shuttle in its cargo bay). The hull is streamlined. The frontier transport requires a crew of 21 : captaint/pilot, navigator, medic, shuttle pilot, 7 engineers, and 10 gunners. The ship does not normally carry passengers. The ship costs MCr818.2 (including a 1% architect's fee, and a 10% volume production discount) and takes 32 months to build.
. . Externally identical to the type TI frontier transport, the type TJ is never openly identified as such by its owners. The type TJ fulfills Imperiallines' major covert mission: to provide a jump-6 transport system within the Imperium for material, agents, information, and equipment necessary for various Imperial activities.
. . Imperiallines equipment is a grimy, dirty assemblage. Under the grime, the ships al! look the same: no one gets close enough to see the differences between TI and TJ types, and, as far as the public knows, all the ships are of the TI type.
Imperiallines is a front. It would take a lot of work to see, but through several interlocking companies and holders, ownership finally goes back to an office in the Imperial Household bureaucracy. Imperiallines is a fast-moving secret lmperial courier.

 

[Grav_Moped]

...and there's that TL-15 Size Z drive. It's the largest LBB2'81 ship that can do Jump-6.

Different network, of course. The Emperor has his ways.

Apparently Duke Norris did too, but on a much smaller scale.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Monstrously expensive ship for transporting 194+70=264 revenue tons ... and with a crew of 21 ... ... I doubt that such a ship could be (ordinary freight tickets) commercially viable even under subsidies.

Crew salaries are going to be Cr57,500 per month ... and life support for 21 people would be Cr84,000 per month on top of that.
Refueling had better be wilderness (free) because unrefined fuel is going to run over Cr120,000 per jump(!) if buying fuel from a starport.

So yeah, definitely a "we're not even TRYING to be commercially viable!" J6 courier design.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

...and there's that TL-15 Size Z drive. It's the largest LBB2'81 ship that can do Jump-6.

The only LBB2 J-6 ship with a decent payload.

The Z-drive magic is the TL-15 advantage...

 

[Spinward Flow]

The Z-drive magic is the TL-15 advantage...

Maybe ... but at what price?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So yeah, definitely a "we're not even TRYING to be commercially viable!" J6 courier design.

It's a courier, not a freighter...

The TI is a 2000 Dt J-2 ship with ~1200 Dt cargo, that the TJ mimics to be covert.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Maybe ... but at what price?

Very cheap (for the performance)...

Take a smaller LBB2 J-6 ship (still TL-15):

MT-A266662-000000-00000-0        MCr 594       1 000 Dton
bearing                                           Crew=10
batteries                                           TL=15
                        Cargo=43 Fuel=660 EP=60 Agility=5

MCr 600 for 43 Dt payload, or MCr 14/Dt payload.


Z-drives:

MT-B266662-000000-00000-0        MCr 742       2 000 Dton
bearing                                           Crew=20
batteries                                           TL=15
                     Cargo=358 Fuel=1260 EP=120 Agility=5

MCr 750 for 358 Dt payload, or MCr 2.1/Dt payload.


Neither of them are even remotely profitable at standard cargo rates, of course.

 

[Grav_Moped]

It's a courier, not a freighter...

The TI is a 2000 Dt J-2 ship with ~1200 Dt cargo, that the TJ mimics to be covert.

Which is the point. [edited] 2KTd @ J-1 is a sweet spot in the design tables (Drives J get rounded up to factor 1 when they should be 0.9), so the ship it is mimicking is a good one in LBB2'81. The fact that the J-6 version is hilariously unprofitable is because without drop tanks (and even with them, to be honest) every J-6 ship is hilariously unprofitable.