Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
LOL
Now quick! Make one that looks like an Army cargo hummer!
Or a jeep!
Now quick! Make one that looks like an Army cargo hummer!
Or a jeep!
Type W Barge
- Thread starter Jeff M. Hopper
- Start date
fredofmars
SOC-12
<warning! Laziness observation follows!>
The Deere class has that cargo area on the fourth deck at the top of a ladder! Unless you have cargo doors on that level (in the ceiling?), I would be very annoyed as a crew member at being asked to lug break bulk cargo up two or three decks. I'd suggest making the lift go all the way to the top deck. The archetypal lazy crewmember would also appreciate being able to ride the lift to the third deck as well.
The Deere class has that cargo area on the fourth deck at the top of a ladder! Unless you have cargo doors on that level (in the ceiling?), I would be very annoyed as a crew member at being asked to lug break bulk cargo up two or three decks. I'd suggest making the lift go all the way to the top deck. The archetypal lazy crewmember would also appreciate being able to ride the lift to the third deck as well.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I see your point. I considered having no lift at all, actually. This IS an econobox, after all. I decided to include it specifically to handle the low berths, of all things, as I figure the deck plates between the two main holds are largely optional...
In a design that wasn't done in an hour, I'd probably put a dedicated cargo hatch on that attic hold, and include a small cargo crane. In the non-civ versions, the smoke-stack ends in a turret, and that cargo space is the magazine. Difficult to reload? Sure.
In a design that wasn't done in an hour, I'd probably put a dedicated cargo hatch on that attic hold, and include a small cargo crane. In the non-civ versions, the smoke-stack ends in a turret, and that cargo space is the magazine. Difficult to reload? Sure.
The autorickshaw type things?
http://www.auto-rickshaw.com/product-category.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw
I can't find a good pic of the pickup ones at the mo.
I think India or some Asian port city's (it may have been in Thailand) wanting to make electric ones to cut down on the pollution.
Which means, yes I want to try my hand at some, perhaps even grav versions, in T20 sometime.
Casey
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Yes! Those are the ones. I remember we had nicknamed them "bhat buses" when we pulled into Thailand.Originally posted by Casey:
The autorickshaw type things?
http://www.auto-rickshaw.com/product-category.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw
I can't find a good pic of the pickup ones at the mo.
I think India or some Asian port city's (it may have been in Thailand) wanting to make electric ones to cut down on the pollution.
Which means, yes I want to try my hand at some, perhaps even grav versions, in T20 sometime.
Casey
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
OK, after learning how to do it, here are my own unworthy deckplans for the Type W. They are set up as a multi-story building, with the bottom deck being the first shown:
The Outrigger and small cargo bay are at the top (portside) of the plan. The single-person bridge flanked by the emergency low berth on its left and the galley and airlock on the right (part of the drives are directly behind the bridge). The fresher, seperate bunks, and three standard low berths are on the bottom (starboard side) of the plan. As you can see, it is a very cramped design.
These following cargo/fuel/drive decks are stacked five high above the command deck, giving the ship a length of about 18 meters. I envisioned the drives being one single integrated unit that ran the length of the ship, similar to how a spinal mount is placed on larger ships. The cargo bays are both open spaces that can each contain about 25 dtons of material with large full length hatches to accomodate bulky cargoes. The fuel tank is the cowled "hump" along the right side of the plan.
Like I said, it ain't pretty - but she does show the functional elegance that I had in mind for the design.
I have yet to do any kind of exterior views because, frankly, my drawing skills suck. I decided that it would look like the result of a sea urchin - masonry brick - Apollo Lunar Module crossbreeding experiment. Its a basic flattened shoebox with lots of external piping, antennae, and cowlings to break up the smoothness of the structure (kinda like an anime "technoform box" starship design).
So, whatcha all think?
The Outrigger and small cargo bay are at the top (portside) of the plan. The single-person bridge flanked by the emergency low berth on its left and the galley and airlock on the right (part of the drives are directly behind the bridge). The fresher, seperate bunks, and three standard low berths are on the bottom (starboard side) of the plan. As you can see, it is a very cramped design.
These following cargo/fuel/drive decks are stacked five high above the command deck, giving the ship a length of about 18 meters. I envisioned the drives being one single integrated unit that ran the length of the ship, similar to how a spinal mount is placed on larger ships. The cargo bays are both open spaces that can each contain about 25 dtons of material with large full length hatches to accomodate bulky cargoes. The fuel tank is the cowled "hump" along the right side of the plan.
Like I said, it ain't pretty - but she does show the functional elegance that I had in mind for the design.
I have yet to do any kind of exterior views because, frankly, my drawing skills suck. I decided that it would look like the result of a sea urchin - masonry brick - Apollo Lunar Module crossbreeding experiment. Its a basic flattened shoebox with lots of external piping, antennae, and cowlings to break up the smoothness of the structure (kinda like an anime "technoform box" starship design).
So, whatcha all think?
Speaking of quirks, a favorite article I ran across can be located here:
http://www.estarcion.com/kaleja/77quirks.html
It's quite a bit of fun
http://www.estarcion.com/kaleja/77quirks.html
It's quite a bit of fun
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Jeff, in your original write up you say she has a dispersed structure hull cofiguration.
Do the deck plans not resemble a box like close structure instead?
A nice, simple, design though
Do the deck plans not resemble a box like close structure instead?
A nice, simple, design though
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
True.
I could also create a good arguement why the Far Trader and the Subsidized Merchant are not cone configurations according to the deckplans.
Now, I could type all sorts of handwaving about why the design is a dispersed structure. I'm not going to. The reason why the deckplans look like this was because I had originally made them as part of a pamphlet about the Type W Barge and I had to fit the deckplans (with the 3/4" = 1.5m grid) onto two sections of paper that were 2.5" x 8.5" to fit the panels of the pamphlet. A box is a basic, space-filling form. That it also matched with the feeling of "cheap" that I was aiming for was pure serendipity.
Besides, I said I couldn't draw....
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Yes, but why use a 747 when a Piper Cub can do the job? The Type W Barge is kinda like an interstellar jeep or bass boat, small and cheap for the kinds of duties that seem to fall through the cracks left by the Kiloton range vessels.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
hmm. Bass Boat....
Cause a piper is only cost effective vs a 727 when either
A) the 727 can't land where the cub can
or
B) a cub can exceed the demand for transport.
Besides, scaling it up does not quite linearly scale up crewing. At 1000Td, we can still do Bk2 crew rates
(essentially, this is a Bk5 design. I did Cmp2 as t20 would require that, but I have not done the T20 comps into my SS yet)
1000Td Dispersed Structure Hull. 1J1 PP1 for 2 weeks, with a model 2 computer
Fuel Tankage of 105 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 5 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 787 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr266.1. Payments per month are KCr1108.75, Salaries per month are KCr23.5, and Fuel costs are KCr52.5 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 2 Engineers,
0 Stewards, 1 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr624.9625 and expected revenue of KCr787 for an expected profit of KCr162.0375per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr794.10736976 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo
This beast is 15 times the cargo, for 5 times the salaries. Overall, about 15 times the cost, too.
(bridge really eats tonnage on small ships.)
A) the 727 can't land where the cub can
or
B) a cub can exceed the demand for transport.
Besides, scaling it up does not quite linearly scale up crewing. At 1000Td, we can still do Bk2 crew rates
(essentially, this is a Bk5 design. I did Cmp2 as t20 would require that, but I have not done the T20 comps into my SS yet)
1000Td Dispersed Structure Hull. 1J1 PP1 for 2 weeks, with a model 2 computer
Fuel Tankage of 105 tons supports 1 jump and 2 Weeks.
There are 3 Large Staterooms, providing for 5 crew, with the remainder for passengers.
There are 787 tons of cargo space. Total Cost is MCr266.1. Payments per month are KCr1108.75, Salaries per month are KCr23.5, and Fuel costs are KCr52.5 per Jump.
Crew consists of 1 Pilot, 1 Navigator, 2 Engineers,
0 Stewards, 1 Medic, and 0 Gunners.
Passengers (SO/DO): HP 0/0 MP0/0 LP 0
Operational Cycle is 2 Weeks, with a costs total of KCr624.9625 and expected revenue of KCr787 for an expected profit of KCr162.0375per cycle, using refined fuel, and alloting for annual maintenance.
Cost per cargo ton, including mortage, is Cr794.10736976 per Ton Displacement reservered for cargo
This beast is 15 times the cargo, for 5 times the salaries. Overall, about 15 times the cost, too.
(bridge really eats tonnage on small ships.)
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
True, size does matter and it would be more efficient for the larger cargo demand runs, I can't argue with that. The only drawback is that is not what I was designing, I was shooting for a small jump-capable ship that could take care of a lot of small jobs and be cheap enough that they would be sold as surplus on the open market once they had outlived their usefulness for the government or corporation that had initially bought them. These ships travel to worlds that are either out of the way or have small populations (UWP 0-3) that would not require a larger ship. (For a short while, I worked as an airloader for UPS at Boeing Field International. We had semi-trucks and cargo jets bringing in the packages to be delivered - these would be the equivalent to your large version of the ship. When it came time to distribute those packages to other destinations, we used a fleet of smaller "puddle-jumper" aircraft and delivery vans - the delivery vans would be equivalent of worldside transport while the "puddle-jumper" aircraft are the equivalent of the Type W Barge and other small merchant starships or Scout/Couriers.)
If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to use your 1000dton design as a main route transport vessel and naval auxiliary. I think its a solid design for those roles.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Aramis, how about adding a small passenger carrying capability?
Six passenger staterooms, a steward, and six low berths would increase your monthly profit.
Three to four high passengers, three to four middle passengers, and half a dozen low passengers should be available on most worlds.
By the way, by using a dispersed structure you are limited to trading between worlds with interface craft or high ports, which will limit their usefulness on trips "off the main".
Six passenger staterooms, a steward, and six low berths would increase your monthly profit.
Three to four high passengers, three to four middle passengers, and half a dozen low passengers should be available on most worlds.
By the way, by using a dispersed structure you are limited to trading between worlds with interface craft or high ports, which will limit their usefulness on trips "off the main".
Sigg: then it is no longer a barge. but yes, you're quite right about that. But the HP are NOT worth carrying. DO MP does just as well, and means not adding a steward, as a medic is already required.
As for trips off the main: well, barges won't! It's not a landing craft... it's a barge.
Jeff: Cite me as the designer, and absolutely.
Everybody: as for 100Td barges, tho. they have too few a crew for most parties.
Also, keep in mind that at TL 9, they have NO artificial gravity (That's TL10), so they will probably ben engine-down.
As for trips off the main: well, barges won't! It's not a landing craft... it's a barge.
Jeff: Cite me as the designer, and absolutely.
Everybody: as for 100Td barges, tho. they have too few a crew for most parties.
Also, keep in mind that at TL 9, they have NO artificial gravity (That's TL10), so they will probably ben engine-down.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The reason I suggested three of each is the average roll on the passenger availability tables gives 3-4 high and 3-4 middle.
The steward is costing you 1500Cr a cycle (you've already got the crew quarters figured in ), and those few passengers are worth twice their weight in cargo
With decent Steward, Admin, and Streetwise skill it may be worth having eight passsenger staterooms and eight low berths. You are almost guaranteed to fill them all, and the increased number of HP mitigates the cost of the steward even further.
I may start a new thread on this, design the best 1000t jump 2 merchant for PC use
The steward is costing you 1500Cr a cycle (you've already got the crew quarters figured in
), and those few passengers are worth twice their weight in cargo
With decent Steward, Admin, and Streetwise skill it may be worth having eight passsenger staterooms and eight low berths. You are almost guaranteed to fill them all, and the increased number of HP mitigates the cost of the steward even further.
I may start a new thread on this, design the best 1000t jump 2 merchant for PC use
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Unless the hijackers are hidden inside one of the standardized shipping containers and planned it that way because most barges don't worry about hijackers and so have fewer precautions....
Jeff: Stowaways are NOT Hijack. THey're either barratry or mutiny (Crewmember collusion), or Piracy (armed hostile takeover by persons not authorized to be aboard). Hijjack is takeover by passengers, passengers being authorized persons not operating the vessel.
Nitpick, yes. But also one which is important. Stowaways can be dumped overboard. Hijackers can't, as you have to account for them. Pirate stowaways can be killed and dumped.
And if they were there with crewmember collusion, that makes it barratry if they are working with the captain, or mutineers if they are their to take the ship against the captain's wishes. Mutineers and barrateurs have entirely different punishments awaiting them.
Of course, that makes the vicious assumption that something like modern naval maritime law is in force.
Nitpick, yes. But also one which is important. Stowaways can be dumped overboard. Hijackers can't, as you have to account for them. Pirate stowaways can be killed and dumped.
And if they were there with crewmember collusion, that makes it barratry if they are working with the captain, or mutineers if they are their to take the ship against the captain's wishes. Mutineers and barrateurs have entirely different punishments awaiting them.
Of course, that makes the vicious assumption that something like modern naval maritime law is in force.
