creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Thanks!
Using only Book 2 Starships -- Effect on Imperium
- Thread starter creativehum
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It's quite good fun designing ships to the parameters of your setting 
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Thanks! I'm only thinking through implications now.
One big observation for ships in Alandia: anything over 1000 tons is limited to J1. That means getting an A class port on a main or those ships are severely limited. (It also means wolds off mains are safe from larger ships!) High end 1000 ton ships will have J2 Drives and be the main tool of offensive naval action.
A thought on the 400 ton you whipped up: I don't know if I'd trust a courier or scout with only an M1 Alandria is much less settled -- and much more competitive -- than the 3I. It just seems like waiting to have your documents and messages destroyed or stolen, or scouting vessels destroyed before they can report back. Thoughts?
One big observation for ships in Alandia: anything over 1000 tons is limited to J1. That means getting an A class port on a main or those ships are severely limited. (It also means wolds off mains are safe from larger ships!) High end 1000 ton ships will have J2 Drives and be the main tool of offensive naval action.
A thought on the 400 ton you whipped up: I don't know if I'd trust a courier or scout with only an M1 Alandria is much less settled -- and much more competitive -- than the 3I. It just seems like waiting to have your documents and messages destroyed or stolen, or scouting vessels destroyed before they can report back. Thoughts?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
With those 12t you could upgrade the md - 4t would get a 2g drive, 8t would be 3g, but your payload or potential hardpoints are going way down.
I would go with jump 4 for scouting/courier craft since they can also have hardpoints and maneuver drive to get them out of trouble.
As for the limitation of jump 1 mains - it allows you to invest in 'empty hex' deep space stations.
Such bases join the mains together, provide fuel, repair, trade and recreation, and can be anything from a government run waystation, a neutral free port or a haven of scullduggery.
I would go with jump 4 for scouting/courier craft since they can also have hardpoints and maneuver drive to get them out of trouble.
As for the limitation of jump 1 mains - it allows you to invest in 'empty hex' deep space stations.
Such bases join the mains together, provide fuel, repair, trade and recreation, and can be anything from a government run waystation, a neutral free port or a haven of scullduggery.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Mike,
Another question:
So, in the Drive Potential Table, there is a string of Jump Drive, Maneuver Drive, or Powr Plant Types. Some of these, in a given hull, are just as effective as others. (For example, in a 600 ton hull, each Type C-E has the same performance effect as the other.)
However, each letter up the scale costs more and takes up more space.
Question: Is there any reason to buy the more expensive, larger version of a Type if the lower cost/smaller version of the Type has the same effect?
Another question:
So, in the Drive Potential Table, there is a string of Jump Drive, Maneuver Drive, or Powr Plant Types. Some of these, in a given hull, are just as effective as others. (For example, in a 600 ton hull, each Type C-E has the same performance effect as the other.)
However, each letter up the scale costs more and takes up more space.
Question: Is there any reason to buy the more expensive, larger version of a Type if the lower cost/smaller version of the Type has the same effect?
If the Imperium is mentioned in LBB 2, then I'd say it does exist.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
The Imperium is not mentioned in Book 2. In fact, there is no mention of The Imperium in Book 1 or 3 either.
The word is never used. No mention of a singular setting is ever mentioned. (There are reference we to several types of interstellar governments -- as generic examples -- but that's a given since the game implies an interstellar government of one kind or another through various rules and procedures). The Tech Level table in Book 3 makes no mention of the Imperium in terms of relative values of tech for The Imperium -- or any specific interstellar government for that matter.
This all holds true for both the '77 edition and the '81 edition.
In Books 1-3 there is no Imperium or specific setting. Just tools for the Referee to make the setting he wants.The rules and procedures imply the setting for play is an edge (of one kind or another) of an interstellar government (of one kind or another). That's it.
salochin999
SOC-13
I think the idea is an engine hit reduces the drive letter by one so higher than needed drives are a kind of safety factor.
If your jump drive letter was two above the minimum needed to jump then the pirates chasing you would need to hit your engines three times to stop you jumping. If it was the minimum then they'd only need to hit once.
Cool. Then the Imperium didn't exist. Less things to worry about.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Brillant. Thanks.
The thing about Classic Traveller rules is that they are both compact and dense. Rules have implications for other sections in the same book, and across books!
But that makes perfects sense. And is quite cool, actually.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
That's one of the advantages that I see of making up my own setting: Less things to worry about!
The other "advantage" to oversized drives is that if your powerplant factor is at least one letter larger than your m-drive factor, and you have a large-enough computer, you can run the "Double Fire" program and shoot each laser twice in one phase.
As an added bonus, the more frequently you do this, the more likely it is that the overloading will reduce your powerplant factor for you, eventually removing both the ability and the temptation to continue using Double Fire (and maybe impacting your Jump options, as well)... plus, you then get to pay for the repairs to your powerplant from all the damage that you inflicted yourself. So, limited appeal there.
Mostly it is useful a nasty surprise for desperate NPCs to spring on your players.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Thanks as well for that!
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The ships that can be designed using the original books are not small.
The Traveller dTon that Marc standardized size on is about 500 cubic feet, which equates into 5 Gross Register Tons, or 14 metric tons water displacement.
That makes the 100 dTon Scout equal to 500 Gross Tons, or 1400 water displacement tons. That makes the Scout about twice the size in terms of water displacement as the World War 2 German Type VIIC submarine.
A 5000 Traveller dTon ship would equate to 70,000 displacement tons metric, or be larger than the World War 2 Battleship USS Iowa. In terms of volume, it would equate to about 2 World War 2 Essex-class fleet carriers. Are those ships small.
The British used 3 converted passenger-cargo liners for transport during World War 2, the Glen-ships. They were 9800 Gross tons, or slightly less then 2000 Traveller dTons. Overall length was 507 feet, beam was 66.5 feet, and the draft was 30.5 feet. Two of them could carry 523 crew and 1087 troops, for a total of 1610 souls on board. Is that a small ship? After all, it is less than 2000 Traveller dTons.
The Voyager-class cruise ships operated by Royal Caribbean Cruise Line are rated at about 160,000 gross tons, or only 32,000 Traveller dTons. I have been on several, they are not small ships by any margin.
A World War 2 Liberty Ship, the standard cargo ship during the war and for a long period after it, was 7100 Gross tons, so 1420 Traveller dTons. Maximum loaded displacement was 14,245 tons, which would equate to a Traveller ship of about 1000 dTons. The cargo capacity was 9,000 tons. Is that a small ship?
I suspect that makes people think that Traveller ships for the Classic game are small, they are thinking in terms of the Traveller dTon equating into something like the displacement ton for a water ship. Then, you could argue that they are small. In terms of the game, they are not small in the least.
The Traveller dTon that Marc standardized size on is about 500 cubic feet, which equates into 5 Gross Register Tons, or 14 metric tons water displacement.
That makes the 100 dTon Scout equal to 500 Gross Tons, or 1400 water displacement tons. That makes the Scout about twice the size in terms of water displacement as the World War 2 German Type VIIC submarine.
A 5000 Traveller dTon ship would equate to 70,000 displacement tons metric, or be larger than the World War 2 Battleship USS Iowa. In terms of volume, it would equate to about 2 World War 2 Essex-class fleet carriers. Are those ships small.
The British used 3 converted passenger-cargo liners for transport during World War 2, the Glen-ships. They were 9800 Gross tons, or slightly less then 2000 Traveller dTons. Overall length was 507 feet, beam was 66.5 feet, and the draft was 30.5 feet. Two of them could carry 523 crew and 1087 troops, for a total of 1610 souls on board. Is that a small ship? After all, it is less than 2000 Traveller dTons.
The Voyager-class cruise ships operated by Royal Caribbean Cruise Line are rated at about 160,000 gross tons, or only 32,000 Traveller dTons. I have been on several, they are not small ships by any margin.
A World War 2 Liberty Ship, the standard cargo ship during the war and for a long period after it, was 7100 Gross tons, so 1420 Traveller dTons. Maximum loaded displacement was 14,245 tons, which would equate to a Traveller ship of about 1000 dTons. The cargo capacity was 9,000 tons. Is that a small ship?
I suspect that makes people think that Traveller ships for the Classic game are small, they are thinking in terms of the Traveller dTon equating into something like the displacement ton for a water ship. Then, you could argue that they are small. In terms of the game, they are not small in the least.
each letter is also 1 hit point for the drive.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
Always a good reminder for those who might make that mistake.
And as a side note, if Mike refers to the setting I'm creating here, the ships are in general at the low end of the Book 2 scale. Because the interstellar empire has a max TL 11, ships are capped at 2000 tons. That's still big enough for me. But relative to other ships, like in High Guard, they are much smaller. But -- again -- big enough!
(Also, timerover, the starting subsector for my game is on a frontier. You might be interested!)
nats
SOC-12
I have always felt that the best way to play Traveller whether Classic or Mongoose Traveller is to restrict the game to the smaller spaceships and just have larger ships as a background that the players are aware of but dont otherwise need to know about in detail other than perhaps the odd description of their internals from time to time.
In that way CT is best played with books 1-3 alone, the other later books just messed things up. Similarly MgT is best played with the Core Rulebook and pretty much nothing else. Follow that and Traveller is a very fun easy game to play. Its the way Traveller was originally envisaged and IMO nothing has been since released to improve on those early rules and very limited generic setting. Everything else has just been money making fluff that has never added anything worthy to the game at all. Apart from the Spinward Marches perhaps.
I have just sold practically all of my Mongoose books and, you know, I feel a lot better! I think I will actually enjoy playing the game again now.
In that way CT is best played with books 1-3 alone, the other later books just messed things up. Similarly MgT is best played with the Core Rulebook and pretty much nothing else. Follow that and Traveller is a very fun easy game to play. Its the way Traveller was originally envisaged and IMO nothing has been since released to improve on those early rules and very limited generic setting. Everything else has just been money making fluff that has never added anything worthy to the game at all. Apart from the Spinward Marches perhaps.
I have just sold practically all of my Mongoose books and, you know, I feel a lot better! I think I will actually enjoy playing the game again now.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I'm considering an iteration I'm calling T-444. Book 4, Supplement 4, and Adventure 4 are where it stops, except for things that Book 2 (among others) is missing due to being early, not due to being "small", and specifically excluding advanced character generation in Book 4.
Round here, most of us just call that Prototraveller.
In all seriousness, it's a decent metric.
The only problem I have with Supp 4 is that it brings in skills that would need to be in the 6 Book 1 careers. Wet-navy Sailors can earn Gravitics and Battledress; Space Navy and Marines can't.
Admittedly, it's easy to rewrite the Book 1 skill tables.
Although it's just as valid to rewrite the Supp 4 tables. That might even be a better idea if you don't think Gravitics, Battledress or Zero-G Combat are all that necessary.
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