UX Question

[whartung]

So, working on Yet Another design app, I have a UX question.

Consider an HG tool.

It has an Armor dropdown box, since Armor can only be from 0-15 (mod planetoids).

But, of course, the armor limit is based on the Tech Level.

So, there you have your TL 15 ship with 15 armor, but you decided to drop it down to TL 13.

Would you prefer that the armor reset to 13 for you (since it was greater than 13), or, instead, a design warning that the Armor is too high?

Similarly, you have option to add a Screen to the ship. It lists Dampers, Meson, and Force Fields.

But, you already have a Meson screen installed, so a) should the meson option Go Away, or b) should it add the new screen and flag a warning that there are "two meson screens".

(This may be a trick question, I dunno if folks can run redundant screens, they may be able to, probably, I'd have to check combat results.)

The key point between the two is whether or not the tool should try to enforce the rules (and prevent you from making an invalid design), or should it simply warn with some detail that the design in invalid because of reason.

The issue with, for example, the armor, is that you may do the TL thing, "lose" armor, and not realize it, and not put it back later if you bump back to TL 15.

Whereas the other mechanic will let you willy nilly make "anything you want", and just show reason why the system disagrees with your decisions. But, at the same time, there are limits. There won't be an option for Jump 7, for example, or a "quad" laser turret.

The other thing, is I think its impractical to avoid designing an invalid design. For example, refusing to add a larger meson gun because you're out of space (or refusing to let you lower your hull size because now its "too small"). Better to just flag it and let you correct it however you wish. Just easier that way.

Opinions?

 

[Rupert]

I would prefer warnings to hard refusals. That way if the designer wants to build an illegal ship for whatever reason, they can.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So, working on Yet Another design app, I have a UX question.

Consider an HG tool.

It has an Armor dropdown box, since Armor can only be from 0-15 (mod planetoids).

But, of course, the armor limit is based on the Tech Level.

So, there you have your TL 15 ship with 15 armor, but you decided to drop it down to TL 13.

Would you prefer that the armor reset to 13 for you (since it was greater than 13), or, instead, a design warning that the Armor is too high?

Separate Want from Get.

If I specify armour 20, just give me what is possible including configuration at the selected TL. If I later change TL, don't force me to respecify...


Make my life simpler, not harder. The computer can handle the details...


Example, a buffered planetoid with lots of armour, grey cells are my Wants:

I ask for armour 20, the spreadsheet can figure out that it should add Armour 14 to the base 6.

If I change configuration to needle:

The spreadsheet will give me as much as possible, armour 15, at this TL.
My specification does not change so I can switch back and forth without problem.



Remember that each component can have a non-standard TL, in case of a refit.

 

[McPerth]

So, there you have your TL 15 ship with 15 armor, but you decided to drop it down to TL 13

I don't understand what do you mean. Is the ship refitted to TL 13 (e.g. due to a Hard Times scenario), or the designer wants to adapt his design to TL 13?

If the first case, I guess it could keep its armour 15, as the hull is not changed, but screens would need to be refited to TL13 and the TL 15 forfeited, as those need more maintenance.

If the second, I guess he must redo the design from a scratch, as armor would be limited to 13 (and need more space tahn the 15 of the first design), as will other things.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Similarly, you have option to add a Screen to the ship. It lists Dampers, Meson, and Force Fields.

But, you already have a Meson screen installed, so a) should the meson option Go Away, or b) should it add the new screen and flag a warning that there are "two meson screens".

(This may be a trick question, I dunno if folks can run redundant screens, they may be able to, probably, I'd have to check combat results.)

You can have as many screens or other components as you want. Just one works at a time, the others are spares, see TCS Spare Systems.

The key point between the two is whether or not the tool should try to enforce the rules (and prevent you from making an invalid design), or should it simply warn with some detail that the design in invalid because of reason.

The issue with, for example, the armor, is that you may do the TL thing, "lose" armor, and not realize it, and not put it back later if you bump back to TL 15.

Don't change my Wants, just change what I get.

Whereas the other mechanic will let you willy nilly make "anything you want", and just show reason why the system disagrees with your decisions. But, at the same time, there are limits. There won't be an option for Jump 7, for example, or a "quad" laser turret.

Sure, let the user override, but default to RAW. It gets complex, so would probably not bother letting the user override...

The other thing, is I think its impractical to avoid designing an invalid design. For example, refusing to add a larger meson gun because you're out of space (or refusing to let you lower your hull size because now its "too small"). Better to just flag it and let you correct it however you wish. Just easier that way.

Agreed, that is better. Let me add whatever I want, and fix it later.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Idon't understand what do you mean. Is the ship refitted to TL 13 (e.g. due to a Hard Times scenario), or the designer wants to adapt his design to TL 13?

Think agile, not waterfall.

Iterate changes to the ship until you are satisfied, ship TL and size are just variables, just like anything else. You might just want to see what this design would cost at TL-13?

 

[Spinward Flow]

So, there you have your TL 15 ship with 15 armor, but you decided to drop it down to TL 13.

Would you prefer that the armor reset to 13 for you (since it was greater than 13), or, instead, a design warning that the Armor is too high?

Armor Code exceeds current TL.

Similarly, you have option to add a Screen to the ship. It lists Dampers, Meson, and Force Fields.

But, you already have a Meson screen installed, so a) should the meson option Go Away, or b) should it add the new screen and flag a warning that there are "two meson screens".

Redundant "backup" screens can be a Design Feature™ rather than a Bug.

The key point between the two is whether or not the tool should try to enforce the rules (and prevent you from making an invalid design), or should it simply warn with some detail that the design in invalid because of reason.

Enforcing the rules HARD is not desirable.
Notifying when rules are not in compliance is better.

The other thing, is I think its impractical to avoid designing an invalid design. For example, refusing to add a larger meson gun because you're out of space (or refusing to let you lower your hull size because now its "too small"). Better to just flag it and let you correct it however you wish. Just easier that way.

A key point is that it is often times necessary to iterate through "doesn't work" possibilities before settling on something that DOES work. I know that in my own starship design work, being able to figure out "how much margin is left" (or better yet, how far "over budget") a design is can be very useful when it comes to the inevitable tradeoffs of "so what are you going to drop/downgrade?" in order to make everything fit.

 

[agorski]

It has an Armor dropdown box, since Armor can only be from 0-15 (mod planetoids).

But, of course, the armor limit is based on the Tech Level.

So, there you have your TL 15 ship with 15 armor, but you decided to drop it down to TL 13.

Would you prefer that the armor reset to 13 for you (since it was greater than 13), or, instead, a design warning that the Armor is too high?

You have options. The dropdown can show only the legal values, or show all values with some greyed out and un-selectable if invalid. Or selectable with a warning icon next to invalid values.

If you invalidate an already selected value, you can flag this with a warning icon on the display where all factors are shown.

IMO, I wouldn't change any selection automagically.