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What is Traveller?

Actually the MegaTraveller "Referee's Manual" had little to do with "how to run a game" and a lot to do with "Rules not needed by the players" and "rules not needed daily" like Design Systems

DriveThrough, with TOC

This allowed the players to get the "Players Manual" (CharGen etc) without having to pay for the Referee stuff or the Encyclopedia (The third book in the set)

No MegaTraveller book had the "how to play RPGs element"
 
Is "No FTL communications" really encoded in the rules, or is it just one of the fundamental elements of the Third Imperium's universe?
Can you give me an example of where it's assumed in the rules?
 
Is "No FTL communications" really encoded in the rules, or is it just one of the fundamental elements of the Third Imperium's universe?
I see it as a "Third Imperium thing". FTL communication has been an option sice at least Fire,
Fusion & Steel, and it is an important part of the Babylon 5 setting.
 
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Is "No FTL communications" really encoded in the rules, or is it just one of the fundamental elements of the Third Imperium's universe?
Can you give me an example of where it's assumed in the rules?

Every reference to the existance of an x-boat implies no FTL communications.
 
Good point. But are refrences to X-boats in the rules, or in the background material on the OTU?
Your are opening a can of worms, I think. :)

In my view someone who uses optional rules published in an official Traveller
supplement (like Fire, Fusion and Steel) or a rulebook (like the hyperdrive in
the MGT core rules) uses Traveller rules, and therefore plays Traveller - but
opinions are probably very divided on this.
 
Is "No FTL communications" really encoded in the rules, or is it just one of the fundamental elements of the Third Imperium's universe?
Can you give me an example of where it's assumed in the rules?


It's quoted in a number of places in the LBB's and Mongoose books. In CT, there is a small section on modifying Traveller to fit whatever you want. In that, it makes the reference to the Age of Sail and strongly suggests not making any changes to the lack of FTL comms as it would completely unbalance the premise of travel, politics etc.
 
Good point. But are refrences to X-boats in the rules, or in the background material on the OTU?

Impossible to distinguish between the two given the layout of data in the MgT Core book. There are references to The Impreium scattered throughout and almost as many alternate rules that contradict the traditional OTU.

Frankly, FTL communication changes almost nothing in the rule books (mail contracts and Scout CharGen being the only two items that immediately come to mind in MgT) but will radically invalidate the background and history of the OTU.

Like Warp Drives or Jump Gates, do whatever you want with your game.
 
Good point. But are refrences to X-boats in the rules, or in the background material on the OTU?


Jason,

You're applying 2009 definitions to materials written in the 1970s. Let me explain.

The idea of RPG rules being wholly distinct from RPG settings had not yet been developed in the 1970s. RPGs themselves were only a few years old and no one yet understood that players would want detailed setting materials in which to run their games. D&D, Traveller, and the others were little more than bare-bones kits of a sort that let people create something that was less than what we call "setting" today. Those settings were also constrained by the rules and the assumptions underlying those rules.

For Traveller, one underlying assumption was no FTL communications apart from ships and that assumption was expressed in the descriptions of starship operations, equipment lists, and other ways.

The x-boat first arrived in JTAS and was later published in S:7 Traders & Gunboats. I don't have the JTAS Reprint with me and so can't give you a date. S:7's publication date however is 1980 which is before the Third Imperium or OTU setting really came into being.

That's generally thought to have happened with the publication of HG2. LLB:4, S:7, and JTAS articles mention an "imperium" or the "Imperium", but those entities can be seen as just an extrapolation of rules set which originally contained noble titles up to duke. It was after HG2 however that the setting we now call the OTU to coalesce. Sadly, GDW's greatest error was that they never truly separated that setting from the rules.

All this is somewhat beside the point. Traveller was never actually generic. GDW did intend players to create their own "settings" but as we have seen those 1970s settings were not what we call settings in 2009. Furthermore, the range of possible Traveller settings was constrained by Traveller's rules and the assumptions underlying those rules. Among other things, Traveller had specific FTL drive that worked in a specific manner. Jump drive is not warp drive or hyperspace drive. That alone significantly constrains the range of possible settings.

This doesn't mean you can't use Traveller's rules to create non-Traveller settings however. Any rule set can be plundered. Ty Beard's Commonwealth setting may eschew gravitics, but it adheres to nearly all of Traveller's other thematic notes. My Pulp - Chaco War may have used Traveller's weapons, skills, and other equipment, but it didn't have nearly all the other thematic notes so it wasn't Traveller.

It's a complicated topic, one that has more gray than black or white. Despite those gray areas and ragged edges, a certain truth still exists at the center: Traveller is a certain something and some things simply are not Traveller.


Regards,
Bill
 
Frankly, FTL communication changes almost nothing in the rule books (mail contracts and Scout CharGen being the only two items that immediately come to mind in MgT) but will radically invalidate the background and history of the OTU.
That's my point. STL-only communications are truly integral to the Third Imperium/OTU setting, but the actual rules that deal with the limitation seem very minor at best. Mail contracts and Scout CharGen are good examples, but even they are rather minor.
 
Is "No FTL communications" really encoded in the rules, or is it just one of the fundamental elements of the Third Imperium's universe?
Can you give me an example of where it's assumed in the rules?

Given that the LBB's and TTB don't make any firm distinction between the OTU and the rules, and that same non-distinction approach exists in the MGT core.

Really, until about 1985, few games drew any distinction between Rules and Setting Materials. Then GURPS came out... and a lot of people started drawing an imaginary sharp-line boundary between them. That boundary is as illusory as a rainbow... you get to the right POV and it disappears or reappears.

The CT rules are built around two fundamental premises, and the entirety of ship economics is utterly dependent upon them:
  1. jump transit takes a week and in system activity takes a week
  2. no FTJ (faster than jumpig) comm
If you can get information faster than by jumping, thenyou start to migrate from a speculation & representation based economy to an order based economy. A speculation based economy is built upon risk taking; you can't know what they need NOW, so you have to guess. A representative based economy is built on "I need X, so I send joe to go negotiate for X in system y in order to assure I get it as soon as possible." When you get FTJ commo, that starts to change. If, for example, I can send a FTJC in one day, In the same time it would take to send Joe with the cash, counting ticketing taking 24-48 hours so Joe can pack, I can comm them, find out their price, send a funds transfer, and have it in 10 days. I don't send the cash until it ships, but they can check with the escrow to see if the cash exists, and is set aside, and so it takes 10 days, not 15-20, to get the item to me, and I know ahead of time how much, and I know when to expect it, as well. The message trail:
  1. a->b: Do you have Widgets in stock and how much
  2. b->a: yes, KCr1 each. Shipping will be 1Td per 14, at KCr1.1/Td
  3. a->b: I want 20. KCr 22.2 on escrow with Corky Escrow (c)
    c->b: escrow held for you of KCr22.2 to be released upon arrival of 20 Widgets.
  4. b->a: Will ship when escrow confirmed.
    b->a: shipping today, bound for escrow
    b->c: shipping today. Expect arrival in 7 days.
  5. time passes
  6. _
  7. _
  8. _
  9. _
  10. _
  11. _
  12. c->b:arrived today. Sending funds transfer, and delivering locally to a.

Now, without FTJC, that's 3 weeks before goods ship, and you don't know that the deal's been made until the goods arrive in week 4.If the FTJ comm is 6 days, it's still 3 weeks, but you know the day before you'll need the warehouse space. At 3 days, you're down to 12 days.


The alternate method, sending Joe.
  1. Joe, pack up, I'm sending you with KCr30 to buy widgets.
  2. joe goes
  3. Jump
  4. _
  5. _
  6. _
  7. _
  8. _
  9. _
  10. Joe buys widgets
  11. _
  12. _
  13. _
  14. Joe jumps back
  15. _
  16. _
  17. _
  18. _
  19. _
  20. _
  21. Delivery and change.

from the standpoint of a shipowner: if you can call and say, "What do you want" and get that information faster than a ship can be sent, you can make arrangements to buy and then deliver with reduced risk.

Further, any form of FTJ commo makes the questionable actions encouraged in CT adventures likely to have serious repercussions. Further still, skipping becomes almost impossible.

Further, since FTLC in traveller is by ship, there is the risk of the ship; other FTLC modes are less likely to use that.

Lots of little bits.

In the Traveller rules, ships make two commercial jumps a month; for small freighters on good routes, they jump about 90% full, and break even. Getting ahead becomes the source of adventure. If, however, you can make 3 jumps a month with the same sizes, costs, and prices, then suddenly the ships are major sources of profits; on the other hand, if you push it to 18 days per cycle, as TNE did, even ignoring the changes in costs, you reduce the income cycle drastically.
 
The idea of RPG rules being wholly distinct from RPG settings had not yet been developed in the 1970s.
Yeah, I'm well aware.
Those settings were also constrained by the rules and the assumptions underlying those rules.
Granted. I'm just not sure "no FTL comms" is really one of the fundamental assumptions built into the rules, and not a part of the Third Imperium background that developed more fully in later Traveller material. You pointed out yourself that the x-boat wasn't in the original three LBBs.
For Traveller, one underlying assumption was no FTL communications apart from ships and that assumption was expressed in the descriptions of starship operations, equipment lists, and other ways.
Granted that there is an absence of FTL gear in the equipment section, do the LBB starship operations rules really have anything to say about communications?
Sadly, GDW's greatest error was that they never truly separated that setting from the rules.
It's only an error if you believe they should have created a truly generic rules set instead of what they did create - Traveller.

All this is somewhat beside the point. Traveller was never actually generic.
I agree with you there.
 
I'm just not sure "no FTL comms" is really one of the fundamental assumptions built into the rules...


Jason,

I should have done what Aramis did in Post #93 and given you one specific example. I thought a discussion of general game design and evolution would get the point across instead.

As Aramis proved in his post, the entire LBB:2 trade and commerce section is predicated on no FTL communications and you can't quibble with something as old as LBB:2.

No FTL comms is a fundamental part of the Traveller theme.


Regards,
Bill
 
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That's my point. STL-only communications are truly integral to the Third Imperium/OTU setting, but the actual rules that deal with the limitation seem very minor at best. Mail contracts and Scout CharGen are good examples, but even they are rather minor.

In the technological levels charts in LBB3, there is a column for communications. There are no entries in it for FTL communication. Considering that it also mentions disintegrators, which I think is the only mention of them in LBB1-3, I doubt it just wasn't sonsidered important enough to be put in. Furthermore, it says that when making a subsector, the referee should create communication routes, and that these routes serve as a conduit for messages.
 
It's only an error if you believe they should have created a truly generic rules set instead of what they did create - Traveller.


Jason,

They could have kept their sci-fi RPG rules separate from the official setting they created from those rules. LBB:5 HG2 began the trend, but by the time LBB:6 Scouts the Third Imperium was tangled up so tightly in the rules that it was increasingly difficult if not impossible to separate them.

Keeping the rules separate from the setting would have prevented many other problems also. Among many other things, tech levels strictly as presented in LBB:3 are impossible in the Third Imperium. They obviously have to mean something else or have to be modified in some manner. GDW never managed to do that, GDW may have never seen the need to do that.

The concept of a "chinese wall" between the rules and the setting, something that is routine in 2009, may have led GDW to publish how tech levels and other concepts in the Traveller rules needed to be modified for Third Imperium setting.


Regards,
Bill
 
But Jason's implied (and later stated) point is still valid. Unless one cares deeply about the FFW or the unfolding of the Rebellion and Virus, FTL communications really impacts very little in the LBB 1-3 rules (or MgT core book).

Even Trade is little impacted:
What difference does it make if the standard cargo you are picking up (as a Free Trader) was ordered 2 hours ago or 2 weeks ago?
What difference does the current market rate for Widgets 2 parsecs away matter for your speculative trade Widgets? You will not be able to sell your widgets for another week and the volatile Traveller markets will have changed the price by then. (True even with the CT Trader skill predicting the price before you jump and no FTL comms.)

So I open the question:
What rules are actually impacted by FTL comms?
 
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Really, until about 1985, few games drew any distinction between Rules and Setting Materials.
It depends quite a bit on the part of the roleplaying hobby one is coming from.

For example, in 1982 there were already seven different settings for Chaosi-
um's BRP rules: Runequest, Stormbringer, Call of Cthulhu, Future World, Magic
World, Superworld and Thieves' World.
So, for someone playing Chaosium's games, the idea of one rules system with
many settings of different genres was a completely normal one after 1981.
 
In the technological levels charts in LBB3, there is a column for communications. There are no entries in it for FTL communication. Considering that it also mentions disintegrators, which I think is the only mention of them in LBB1-3, I doubt it just wasn't sonsidered important enough to be put in. Furthermore, it says that when making a subsector, the referee should create communication routes, and that these routes serve as a conduit for messages.
Again, those are very minor points, not really something I would consider integral to the rules.
 
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