CT Only: What One Thing Would You Change About Classic Traveller?

[Spinward Flow]

Not necessarly...

Aldmirals can move without other units along those lines, but that does not mean they are moved by X-Boats, as those are also the main commercial lines, and (IMHO) it's assumed commercial shipping is moving through them.

Aldmirals don't use to travel (nor work) alone, and I have serious doubts the aldimral counter represents just on individual, but a full HQ staff, taht could not be moved by X-Boats

Really?

Well ... let's pull out the Fifth Frontier War and look at what it has to say on pages 12-13 shall we?

Xboat Movement: Admirals are able to travel from system to system using the xboat routes printed on the stellar display. An admiral may use only a friendly xboat network: the xboat networks in Zhodani and Sword Worlds space are friendly to the forces controlled by the Zhodani player, and the xboat network in Imperial space is friendly to the forces of the Imperial player.

During the xboat movement step of the movement phase, an admiral may be moved from one system to another along the xboat route. This move may be up to jump-4 in length, and thus intermediary systems along the jump can be bypassed. Example: An Imperial admiral at Pixie (hex 2307) may use the xboat network to be moved to Feri (hex 2409), without having to stop at Roughened (hex 2308).

An admiral may not use xboat movement if, during the xboat movement step, either the system he is leaving or the system he is entering contains enemy squadrons. An admiral moved by xboat movement may not subsequently be transported by a squadron making a jump during the same movement phase.

{expectant look}

 

[Condottiere]

Speculatively, if they aren't using their jump factor four flag ships along clearly defined lines of communications, they could be using larger couriers.

 

[McPerth]

I don't see any reference to X-boats ships, only X-boat routes and network...

So, what do you defend? that the aldmiral counter represents only one person? or that the X-boats may accomodate their full staffs?

 

[Spinward Flow]

I don't see any reference to X-boats ships, only X-boat routes and network...

Name the starships on the XBoat network capable of Jump-4.

I'll wait.
(hint: it's not Tenders and it's not Scout/Couriers)

 

[McPerth]

Name the starships on the XBoat network capable of Jump-4

World class (al Morai ships, according SMC, page 31), to give you an example in the Spinward Marches...

Of course, I don't know all ship's classes in the 3I, do you?

About X-boat routes, from TTB (page 150):

Xboat Routes: The heavy lines connecting several worlds are express boat routes providing communications between worlds of the Imperium. These routes are also common trade and transport routes with regular commercial transportation provided by one or more transport megacorporations. Service to locations not on these routes is less frequent and less dependable.

(underlining is mine)

And you did not yet answer my questions:

So, what do you defend? that the aldmiral counter represents only one person? or that the X-boats may accomodate their full staffs?

 

[Spinward Flow]

 

[McPerth]

What are you not sure if serious? The TTB quote? the fact an admiral needs his(her) staff? the fact the staff cannot be moved by X-boats?

BTW, it would be helpful for any conversation that you answer directly (or don't answer at all), not with gifs or similars

 

[Spinward Flow]

Did anyone ever use an X-boat besides something to Rob, Rescue, or look for one missing?

XBoats can carry admirals to fleets in the Fifth Frontier War game ...

Not necessarily...

Well ... let's pull out the Fifth Frontier War and look at what it has to say on pages 12-13 shall we?

I don't see any reference to X-boats ships, only X-boat routes and network...

Name the starships on the XBoat network capable of Jump-4.

About X-boat routes, from TTB (page 150):

So ... the sequence of events is:

Question: Did anyone ever use an XBoat for something besides...?
Me: They were used for Admiral transport in the Fifth Frontier War.
You: No they weren't.
Me: {quotes chapter and verse from Fifth Frontier War rules with citation}
You: The rules on XBoat movement don't mention XBoats.
Me: The only ships capable of Jump-4 on the XBoat routes as part of the XBoat network are ...?
You: TTB says something completely different and totally unrelated, which trumps Fifth Frontier War's own rules as a wargame for Traveller!
Me: ...
Me: ... seriously?

There's a reason why I find your line of argument here ridiculous on its face.
I shouldn't have to spell it out even more than I already have.

 

[McPerth]

Me: The only ships capable of Jump-4 on the XBoat routes as part of the XBoat network are ...?
You: TTB says something completely different and totally unrelated, which trumps Fifth Frontier War's own rules as a wargame for Traveller!

At least quote me well. I gave you an example of jump 4 ship (X-boats aside) moving along thier lines: the World class

And if you consier unrelated to other ship travelling the x-boats lines the fact TTB specifies they are also major trade rutes other ships follow, then we have different ways to understand the word "unrelated".

 

[Spinward Flow]

the World class

XBoats are limited to movement along the XBoat networked systems (starting and end locations must be on the network).
World class ships are not explicitly limited to the XBoat network systems.
World class ships CAN go anywhere (even if they frequently don't and stick to their assigned trade lanes).
XBoats CANNOT go anywhere and everywhere ... they can ONLY go to systems ON the XBoat Network where Tenders are to be found (which is consistent with the rule as quoted and cited).

Also, the XBoat Movement name for the rule ought to have been a dead giveaway as to what was being ruled on.
Imagine my surprise at receiving repeated resistance to the obvious.

 

[McPerth]

If you look at Al Morai rutes, you'll see they are along the x-boat (and main trade) routes, and you just asked me for a ship travelling them at J-4

magine my surprise at receiving repeated resistance to the obvious.

Let's see what is "obvious":

1. Aldmirals don't represent just one person, but the whole staff (any brass rank needs it). do you agree?
2. X-boats cannot carry the whole staff, do you agree?
3. Other ships also travel along x-boats lines at j-4, do you agree?

And your "obvious" conclusion is that the aldmirals travel cramped and alone on an X-boat instead of using other comemrcial shipping with their trusted staff members...

And still surprised I don't find it obvious?

Or you jsut disagree in any of the premises told?

 

[Vargr Breath]

This could be a game Admiral and not a real-life Admiral with his whole staff. I think, and this is just me, in the game Admiral was just considered as one person being moved in an X-boat. Maybe as an interim move to replace an Admiral killed or one, they had lost confidence in and maybe using the replaced Admiral's staff until his could be moved. I think, and again this is just me, that using the term "X-Boat network systems " it implied that it was an X-Boat they were using. But I've been wrong about a lot of things before

 

[Vargr Breath]

I Just found this page 9 -5th Fronter War.
B. Xboat Movement Step: Admirals may be moved by xboat by both players. The player with the lower number (as rolled in step A, above) must move all admirals first, before the opposing player may move any admirals.

 

[Condottiere]

Sounds like they actually used ecks boats.

However, I kinda suspect the preference would be for jump factor six four hundred tonne fleet couriers.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I kinda suspect the preference would be for jump factor six four hundred tonne fleet couriers.

Yes ... but ...
J6 Fleet Couriers are not represented anywhere in Fifth Frontier War ... while Scout Squadrons (of Scout/Couriers) and XBoats on the network are within the game rules for how to move tokens around the map.

 

[Condottiere]

Maybe the game developers never considered this possibility, which could be before Fighting Ships.

Or they wanted to simplify game play.

 

[Vargr Breath]

J6 Fleet Couriers would be my choice in a game, but they didn't seem to matter in 5th. FW where Admirals were treated more like chess pieces.

 

[Condottiere]

I assume it's meant to be fifth dimensional chess game.

 

[Jame]

I would change the way technology and it's advancement are handled, especially computers and ships.

 

[McPerth]

This could be a game Admiral and not a real-life Admiral with his whole staff. I think, and this is just me, in the game Admiral was just considered as one person being moved in an X-boat.

I always thought the games tried to mimic (to some extent) "reality" (as much as this word can be used on such a science fiction setting)

I Just found this page 9 -5th Fronter War.
B. Xboat Movement Step: Admirals may be moved by xboat by both players. The player with the lower number (as rolled in step A, above) must move all admirals first, before the opposing player may move any admirals.

Sounds like they actually used ecks boats

Or the game rules writters just tried to simplify them... Neither are there any references to Destroyers (or other non-capital squadrons, scouts aside), supplies and many other things.

People must have changed a lot for an aldmiral to prefer to travel in x-Boats conditions than by passenger ships doing the same route (as TTB tells), but as it does not even affect the game, I guess it is really a moot discussion.

However, I kinda suspect the preference would be for jump factor six four hundred tonne fleet couriers.

I fully agree here, as conditions and speed would be bettrer than in x-boats. Nonetheless, as Spinward Flow says, there's no reference to them in the game, and this would change (albeit only in a small detail) the game, so at best it could be used as house rule.