What weapons do police carry?

[Fritz_Brown]

Thinking about it (and reading the various responses), this is another place where we have to ask about the culture. Is this place high LL because the people are happy and well-off? If so, I think there will be a few places with LL0, where the heavily armed police work. Is this place high LL because it is a totalitarian state (like several mentioned above), and the citizen will like it, or else? Then, I think Whipsnade's remarks are very spot-on. (BTW, I notice you mention it is totalitarian.) flykiller has a great point, too, about other means. On a totalitarian world, in particular, you will be watched every second, and you might be simply "disabled" before the call is made to Dong by turning off all your electronics. (Ooh, bad for the guy with the cybernetics....)

Having just regurgitated what everyone else said, I like the stun baton (unobtrusive, yet could be painful, and could be used sadistically by bad cops), and am intrigued by the laser stunner. IMTU, there is a small high-tech polity, where they have unlocked some of the physics (?) of psionics. They have produced a weapon that essentially produces the psi-blast effect. It is not well-liked by citizen's rights groups, as it has a tendency to be letahl.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Thinking about it (and reading the various responses), this is another place where we have to ask about the culture. Is this place high LL because the people are happy and well-off? If so, I think there will be a few places with LL0, where the heavily armed police work. Is this place high LL because it is a totalitarian state (like several mentioned above), and the citizen will like it, or else? Then, I think Whipsnade's remarks are very spot-on. (BTW, I notice you mention it is totalitarian.) flykiller has a great point, too, about other means. On a totalitarian world, in particular, you will be watched every second, and you might be simply "disabled" before the call is made to Dong by turning off all your electronics. (Ooh, bad for the guy with the cybernetics....)

Having just regurgitated what everyone else said, I like the stun baton (unobtrusive, yet could be painful, and could be used sadistically by bad cops), and am intrigued by the laser stunner. IMTU, there is a small high-tech polity, where they have unlocked some of the physics (?) of psionics. They have produced a weapon that essentially produces the psi-blast effect. It is not well-liked by citizen's rights groups, as it has a tendency to be letahl.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by K. Webb:
I think the best bet for a future police weapon is one that can instantly switch between various levels of force, from less lethal stunning for the irrate customer at the mall to a kill shot for when the local mercenary in combat armor has drank too much.

1. A most excellent post, good sir. Stars for you! I worked for quite a while with RCMP and other PDs, have friends in OPP and a friend how used to be an SF doorkicker and so got a lot of CQ experience. Some of my old co-workers used to be on Canada's SERT team. Your post was well formatted, well thought out, and reasonably representative for most mid-law, mid-tech worlds.

2. As to your ideal weapon:
Combine XM-26 Taser or Laser Dazzler with Metalstorm like weapon. Pistol has 3 functions - Disable (Taser or Dazzler), Normal (standard slug gun barrel), Special (Either Glaser style high-KE transfer weapon or AP barrel). You could also load other special loads and changing a special barrel could instantly give you new payloads - tracker RFIDs, gas rounds, hollowpoints, rubber or wax bullets, etc. Think Judge Dredd Lawmaster pistol.

For the rifle version, you can have a barrel loaded with AP rounds, one loaded with special ammo (hollowtips, glaser, normal slug, etc), and one larger underbarrel which is a stacked GL (metalstorm tech applied at 25-50mm giving 3-6 grenade like projectiles). In this case, the GL can incorporate those rubber-buckshot grenades, gas grenades, flares, EMP grenades to kill armour or other electronics, net grenades, solidifoam grenades, etc.

I think as you say, the ability to switch out a barrel for a new loadout, have the onboard CPU sync with the one in the barrel and agree on targeting info and ROF info and such, and the ability to have more than one barrel on-call immediate would make for a powerful combination. Now, you have to weight this versus weight and bulk. Perhaps a law enforcement pistol only wants enough bulk to provide 2 barrels, instead of 3. A barrel could be substituted with a laser sight, a single shot shotshell launcher with buckshot or flechette, or a flashlight.

The key to high tech police kit will be adaptability to multiple situations and to all possible threat levels.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by K. Webb:
I think the best bet for a future police weapon is one that can instantly switch between various levels of force, from less lethal stunning for the irrate customer at the mall to a kill shot for when the local mercenary in combat armor has drank too much.

1. A most excellent post, good sir. Stars for you! I worked for quite a while with RCMP and other PDs, have friends in OPP and a friend how used to be an SF doorkicker and so got a lot of CQ experience. Some of my old co-workers used to be on Canada's SERT team. Your post was well formatted, well thought out, and reasonably representative for most mid-law, mid-tech worlds.

2. As to your ideal weapon:
Combine XM-26 Taser or Laser Dazzler with Metalstorm like weapon. Pistol has 3 functions - Disable (Taser or Dazzler), Normal (standard slug gun barrel), Special (Either Glaser style high-KE transfer weapon or AP barrel). You could also load other special loads and changing a special barrel could instantly give you new payloads - tracker RFIDs, gas rounds, hollowpoints, rubber or wax bullets, etc. Think Judge Dredd Lawmaster pistol.

For the rifle version, you can have a barrel loaded with AP rounds, one loaded with special ammo (hollowtips, glaser, normal slug, etc), and one larger underbarrel which is a stacked GL (metalstorm tech applied at 25-50mm giving 3-6 grenade like projectiles). In this case, the GL can incorporate those rubber-buckshot grenades, gas grenades, flares, EMP grenades to kill armour or other electronics, net grenades, solidifoam grenades, etc.

I think as you say, the ability to switch out a barrel for a new loadout, have the onboard CPU sync with the one in the barrel and agree on targeting info and ROF info and such, and the ability to have more than one barrel on-call immediate would make for a powerful combination. Now, you have to weight this versus weight and bulk. Perhaps a law enforcement pistol only wants enough bulk to provide 2 barrels, instead of 3. A barrel could be substituted with a laser sight, a single shot shotshell launcher with buckshot or flechette, or a flashlight.

The key to high tech police kit will be adaptability to multiple situations and to all possible threat levels.

 

[veltyen]

Why am I thinking sawn off shotgun with advanced ammo selection. Maybe the size of a short riot baton. Double barreled so you can have two different loads ready to fire. Armor piercing gyrojet rounds, buckshot, rubber, chemical dispenser, goo/net and so on.

Maybe something close to a double barreled 4/10.

 

[veltyen]

Why am I thinking sawn off shotgun with advanced ammo selection. Maybe the size of a short riot baton. Double barreled so you can have two different loads ready to fire. Armor piercing gyrojet rounds, buckshot, rubber, chemical dispenser, goo/net and so on.

Maybe something close to a double barreled 4/10.

 

[kaladorn]

Metalstorm technology would facilitate this. Load one barrel of 00 buckshot and one barrel of explosive laden slug or tranq or something.

 

[kaladorn]

Metalstorm technology would facilitate this. Load one barrel of 00 buckshot and one barrel of explosive laden slug or tranq or something.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Ideally, you would use the same barrel, but with different magazines (you have to have the magazines, anyway, unless you want single shots) - all using the same caliber/guage. Carrying a whole different barrel means a LOT more weight and bulk.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Ideally, you would use the same barrel, but with different magazines (you have to have the magazines, anyway, unless you want single shots) - all using the same caliber/guage. Carrying a whole different barrel means a LOT more weight and bulk.

 

[kaladorn]

You don't habla metalstorm.

Metalstorm does away with the magazine. The barrel is the magazine. The rounds are stored stacked in the barrel with powder charges between them. There are special setups to deal with the differences round-to-round. You replace the whole barrel. It is about as easy as replacing a magazine. You could also arrange hot swap systems with the multiple barrel scenarios. It also makes for some ludicrous but useful setups, like the CIWS that can dispense something like 1,000,000 RPM. (I'm not making that up either!)

Part of it is that since you replace the barrel each use, it doesn't have to have 10,000 shot longevity. I'm not sure if they are designed to be reloaded or not.

This also does away with a lot of the firing mechanism and ejection mechanism. Yes, ammo + barrel is a bit heavier than a mag, but the overall weapon may be lighter due to having turfed out a lot of the conventional breech, reciever, and ejector.

 

[kaladorn]

You don't habla metalstorm.

Metalstorm does away with the magazine. The barrel is the magazine. The rounds are stored stacked in the barrel with powder charges between them. There are special setups to deal with the differences round-to-round. You replace the whole barrel. It is about as easy as replacing a magazine. You could also arrange hot swap systems with the multiple barrel scenarios. It also makes for some ludicrous but useful setups, like the CIWS that can dispense something like 1,000,000 RPM. (I'm not making that up either!)

Part of it is that since you replace the barrel each use, it doesn't have to have 10,000 shot longevity. I'm not sure if they are designed to be reloaded or not.

This also does away with a lot of the firing mechanism and ejection mechanism. Yes, ammo + barrel is a bit heavier than a mag, but the overall weapon may be lighter due to having turfed out a lot of the conventional breech, reciever, and ejector.

 

[kafka47]

Has anyone considered a future where the Police/Law Enforcers do not carry weapons? Sometimes, I think Traveller falls into Judge Dreadism whereby the confusion between Justice & the Law gets blurred.

Sure on the Frontier worlds, there are a lot of guns to fend off local fauna but as one gets toward more civilized climes could we not see the Rule of Law being sufficient. For those who step outside of it, there are consequences. All this is not to say that Law Levels in Traveller have to change just compulsion to use violence in every situtation does.

I think that is one of the reasons that Traveller is so "underarmed" compared to some other games. The belief is that through role playing that players can resolve things with out doing the Greedo solution. This is not to say that players abandon all guns but one would like to say could they not be limited in some way. This is how I always imagined the Ship's Locker for that very purpose...guns can be stored against possible highjackers and the like but need not be called into service when planetside.

 

[kafka47]

Has anyone considered a future where the Police/Law Enforcers do not carry weapons? Sometimes, I think Traveller falls into Judge Dreadism whereby the confusion between Justice & the Law gets blurred.

Sure on the Frontier worlds, there are a lot of guns to fend off local fauna but as one gets toward more civilized climes could we not see the Rule of Law being sufficient. For those who step outside of it, there are consequences. All this is not to say that Law Levels in Traveller have to change just compulsion to use violence in every situtation does.

I think that is one of the reasons that Traveller is so "underarmed" compared to some other games. The belief is that through role playing that players can resolve things with out doing the Greedo solution. This is not to say that players abandon all guns but one would like to say could they not be limited in some way. This is how I always imagined the Ship's Locker for that very purpose...guns can be stored against possible highjackers and the like but need not be called into service when planetside.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Has anyone considered a future where the Police/Law Enforcers do not carry weapons?

What, like in "Demolition Man"?

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Has anyone considered a future where the Police/Law Enforcers do not carry weapons?

What, like in "Demolition Man"?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

It seems that each shot would get progressively more accurate as the barrel gets effectively longer. I would think this is a bit of overengineering - the barrel would get hot, causing rounds to cook off prematurely, so you would need a sophisticated cooling system, adding more weight and complexity, etc. Just seems awfully complex.

kafka, you are right to a point. It is nice to be in a game (ref or player) that doesn't solve every obstacle with HE. But, the "Rule of Law being sufficient"? I want some of whatever you're drinking. I don't think even 56 millenia (much less centuries) of evolution can get rid of man's inherent need to satisfy self - often at the expense of others. And, bad guys will eventually up the ante to firearms. And, so, your travellers will (after p.o.ing the bad guys) have to defend themselves.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

It seems that each shot would get progressively more accurate as the barrel gets effectively longer. I would think this is a bit of overengineering - the barrel would get hot, causing rounds to cook off prematurely, so you would need a sophisticated cooling system, adding more weight and complexity, etc. Just seems awfully complex.

kafka, you are right to a point. It is nice to be in a game (ref or player) that doesn't solve every obstacle with HE. But, the "Rule of Law being sufficient"? I want some of whatever you're drinking. I don't think even 56 millenia (much less centuries) of evolution can get rid of man's inherent need to satisfy self - often at the expense of others. And, bad guys will eventually up the ante to firearms. And, so, your travellers will (after p.o.ing the bad guys) have to defend themselves.

 

[veltyen]

You are a thug.

On a high tech high law level world you are pointing a gun at a police officer.

The Officer is unarmed.

You are directly in the GPS enabled camera view from the officers helmet. There are several micro-camera-drones that have launched and are floating to each side of the police officer. These are in contact with enforcement central realtime.

If you fire a response team will be there at grav based hypersonic speeds (around Mach 4) ... and will kill you, and then sterilise and ostracise your family.

If you do not fire and put down the weapon you will be submitted to councilling, with potentially some jail time.

If you run the camera drones will follow you and mark you for someone elses collection. You access card has already been cancelled. Nothing will open for you, and there is no form of money that you are carrying that is valid.

So why would a normal street officer carry a weapon?

A tool that could also potentially be used as a weapon certainly.

SOGies/SWAT would be armed to the teeth though.

 

[veltyen]

You are a thug.

On a high tech high law level world you are pointing a gun at a police officer.

The Officer is unarmed.

You are directly in the GPS enabled camera view from the officers helmet. There are several micro-camera-drones that have launched and are floating to each side of the police officer. These are in contact with enforcement central realtime.

If you fire a response team will be there at grav based hypersonic speeds (around Mach 4) ... and will kill you, and then sterilise and ostracise your family.

If you do not fire and put down the weapon you will be submitted to councilling, with potentially some jail time.

If you run the camera drones will follow you and mark you for someone elses collection. You access card has already been cancelled. Nothing will open for you, and there is no form of money that you are carrying that is valid.

So why would a normal street officer carry a weapon?

A tool that could also potentially be used as a weapon certainly.

SOGies/SWAT would be armed to the teeth though.