What weapons do police carry?
- Thread starter ACK!!
- Start date
M
Malenfant
Guest
I'm pretty sure Truncheons count as weapons...
M
Malenfant
Guest
I'm pretty sure Truncheons count as weapons...
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Don't foget your black pudding 
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Don't foget your black pudding
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
veltyen,
Why put the officer at that much risk, though? If the thug shoots the officer, he is still going to be dead (as my thugs are really good shots). And, why can't the thug shoot his way into someone's house, take hostages, etc.? Just questions to make you expand your thesis....
Why put the officer at that much risk, though? If the thug shoots the officer, he is still going to be dead (as my thugs are really good shots). And, why can't the thug shoot his way into someone's house, take hostages, etc.? Just questions to make you expand your thesis....
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
veltyen,
Why put the officer at that much risk, though? If the thug shoots the officer, he is still going to be dead (as my thugs are really good shots). And, why can't the thug shoot his way into someone's house, take hostages, etc.? Just questions to make you expand your thesis....
Why put the officer at that much risk, though? If the thug shoots the officer, he is still going to be dead (as my thugs are really good shots). And, why can't the thug shoot his way into someone's house, take hostages, etc.? Just questions to make you expand your thesis....
Is the officer in less risk with a gun? Without a gun they only have the option of talking the gun weilder down. With a gun the officer would be tempted to go all high noon, potentially spraying nearby civilians.
Unless the thug shoots the peace officer repeatedly in the brain then the peace officer would be put back together... regen tanks and synthetic ressurection go a long way.
Current day methods of dealing with a hostage situation are not resolved using individual (or a pair) of beat cops. At that point a response team (Special Weapons, Special Operations Group and so on) is activated. As I've pointed out these won't only be armed, but will be armed with weaponry to take down any threat. The obvious answer to taking a hostage is being shot in the base of the skull through a wall, Gauss sniper rifles and vision systems being what they are.
Again, a beat cop being confronted with the situation while unarmed can only talk the villain down. They can point out that to injure a hostage is signing their re-education warrant, that the response team is 40 seconds away, and that if they give up without harming anyone their demands will be listened too.
Is the officer in less risk with a gun? Without a gun they only have the option of talking the gun weilder down. With a gun the officer would be tempted to go all high noon, potentially spraying nearby civilians.
Unless the thug shoots the peace officer repeatedly in the brain then the peace officer would be put back together... regen tanks and synthetic ressurection go a long way.
Current day methods of dealing with a hostage situation are not resolved using individual (or a pair) of beat cops. At that point a response team (Special Weapons, Special Operations Group and so on) is activated. As I've pointed out these won't only be armed, but will be armed with weaponry to take down any threat. The obvious answer to taking a hostage is being shot in the base of the skull through a wall, Gauss sniper rifles and vision systems being what they are.
Again, a beat cop being confronted with the situation while unarmed can only talk the villain down. They can point out that to injure a hostage is signing their re-education warrant, that the response team is 40 seconds away, and that if they give up without harming anyone their demands will be listened too.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Sorry, but I don't think the real serious bad guys are going to be talked down - it certainly doesn't work now. Also, with a well-trained police force, officers don't go "high noon" (In "High Noon, BTW, Cooper doesn't spray a lot of lead).
As I said, IMTU the bad guys are really good shots; so a headshot is not out of the question. But regen won't help alot anyway if he is stone cold by the time the docs get there.
And, the hostage potential was not mentioned for the beat cop to deal with, but as the consequences of the perp walking away. And, no matter how great your tech is, I can take a lot of people with me, if I am desperate enough. And, shooting the perp through the head is fine, if you can guarantee no carry-through. (And, if it can punch through a wall, it WILL go through the perp.)
Lastly... So, your cops actually negotiate with the thug and give him what he wants? Otherwise, he won't believe the "your demands will be listened to". He doesn't want them listened to, he wants them obeyed! And, he will not want to be re-educated, as that would mean essentially the same thing as death: his cessation as the person he is, even if his body continues living.
Basically, people can be bad, and bad guys can be exceptionally bad. Not because they have reasoned it out, but because they want to be that way (and psychos). Response units are fine (as per Mr. Whipsnade!), but you have to have the attitude, too.
As I said, IMTU the bad guys are really good shots; so a headshot is not out of the question. But regen won't help alot anyway if he is stone cold by the time the docs get there.
And, the hostage potential was not mentioned for the beat cop to deal with, but as the consequences of the perp walking away. And, no matter how great your tech is, I can take a lot of people with me, if I am desperate enough. And, shooting the perp through the head is fine, if you can guarantee no carry-through. (And, if it can punch through a wall, it WILL go through the perp.)
Lastly... So, your cops actually negotiate with the thug and give him what he wants? Otherwise, he won't believe the "your demands will be listened to". He doesn't want them listened to, he wants them obeyed! And, he will not want to be re-educated, as that would mean essentially the same thing as death: his cessation as the person he is, even if his body continues living.
Basically, people can be bad, and bad guys can be exceptionally bad. Not because they have reasoned it out, but because they want to be that way (and psychos). Response units are fine (as per Mr. Whipsnade!), but you have to have the attitude, too.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Sorry, but I don't think the real serious bad guys are going to be talked down - it certainly doesn't work now. Also, with a well-trained police force, officers don't go "high noon" (In "High Noon, BTW, Cooper doesn't spray a lot of lead).
As I said, IMTU the bad guys are really good shots; so a headshot is not out of the question. But regen won't help alot anyway if he is stone cold by the time the docs get there.
And, the hostage potential was not mentioned for the beat cop to deal with, but as the consequences of the perp walking away. And, no matter how great your tech is, I can take a lot of people with me, if I am desperate enough. And, shooting the perp through the head is fine, if you can guarantee no carry-through. (And, if it can punch through a wall, it WILL go through the perp.)
Lastly... So, your cops actually negotiate with the thug and give him what he wants? Otherwise, he won't believe the "your demands will be listened to". He doesn't want them listened to, he wants them obeyed! And, he will not want to be re-educated, as that would mean essentially the same thing as death: his cessation as the person he is, even if his body continues living.
Basically, people can be bad, and bad guys can be exceptionally bad. Not because they have reasoned it out, but because they want to be that way (and psychos). Response units are fine (as per Mr. Whipsnade!), but you have to have the attitude, too.
As I said, IMTU the bad guys are really good shots; so a headshot is not out of the question. But regen won't help alot anyway if he is stone cold by the time the docs get there.
And, the hostage potential was not mentioned for the beat cop to deal with, but as the consequences of the perp walking away. And, no matter how great your tech is, I can take a lot of people with me, if I am desperate enough. And, shooting the perp through the head is fine, if you can guarantee no carry-through. (And, if it can punch through a wall, it WILL go through the perp.)
Lastly... So, your cops actually negotiate with the thug and give him what he wants? Otherwise, he won't believe the "your demands will be listened to". He doesn't want them listened to, he wants them obeyed! And, he will not want to be re-educated, as that would mean essentially the same thing as death: his cessation as the person he is, even if his body continues living.
Basically, people can be bad, and bad guys can be exceptionally bad. Not because they have reasoned it out, but because they want to be that way (and psychos). Response units are fine (as per Mr. Whipsnade!), but you have to have the attitude, too.
There are trajectory issues that are dealt with somehow (I'm not part of the metalstorm engineering team). They don't get round cook off from my understanding. And they can get ROFs even from a single barrel far faster than an equivalent breech driven system. This means they should be able to get more accurate three round bursts, for instance.
And it isn't actually heavier, as I indicated, due to dispensing with many of the heavy parts of the gun.
It isn't *the* solution to all problems, but it is a solution and offers less mechanical complexity than on-the-fly swapping of ammo feed sources, something which will be mechanically complex and possibly problematic in normal weapons.
As to to British Bobbies in space:
IMTU, I could imagine a planet like this. Many of them? No. Even the British forces have found more need for guns in the past 20 years. Especially when you live in an interconnected system with other places of different law levels and cultural setups. Many guns that the Brit Bobbies have issues with are smuggled in. But if the bad guys have guns, the police sure better have.
And frankly, if you're letting little 120 lb. gals onto the police force and giving them only a truncheon to go up against Jon Q Thuggeee (300 lbs of muscle), then they're in some trouble. Yet the same Jon Q can be backed down with a nice three-quarter inch pump shotgun (sometimes). Remember "The Lord God Made Man. Samuel Colt Made Him Equal."
PS - I'm not sure how you consider Traveller underarmed. Even the basic game had rules for military arms, and I submit several versions of fire, fusion and steel, striker, brilliant lances, MT, mayday, snapshot, AHL, ACQ, Imperium, etc. all tend to militate against your 'underamed' comment. Add in Central Supply Catalog and a number of others. Traveller not only gives you lots of guns, it gives you *SYSTEMS TO BUILD NEW GUNS*.....
There are trajectory issues that are dealt with somehow (I'm not part of the metalstorm engineering team). They don't get round cook off from my understanding. And they can get ROFs even from a single barrel far faster than an equivalent breech driven system. This means they should be able to get more accurate three round bursts, for instance.
And it isn't actually heavier, as I indicated, due to dispensing with many of the heavy parts of the gun.
It isn't *the* solution to all problems, but it is a solution and offers less mechanical complexity than on-the-fly swapping of ammo feed sources, something which will be mechanically complex and possibly problematic in normal weapons.
As to to British Bobbies in space:
IMTU, I could imagine a planet like this. Many of them? No. Even the British forces have found more need for guns in the past 20 years. Especially when you live in an interconnected system with other places of different law levels and cultural setups. Many guns that the Brit Bobbies have issues with are smuggled in. But if the bad guys have guns, the police sure better have.
And frankly, if you're letting little 120 lb. gals onto the police force and giving them only a truncheon to go up against Jon Q Thuggeee (300 lbs of muscle), then they're in some trouble. Yet the same Jon Q can be backed down with a nice three-quarter inch pump shotgun (sometimes). Remember "The Lord God Made Man. Samuel Colt Made Him Equal."
PS - I'm not sure how you consider Traveller underarmed. Even the basic game had rules for military arms, and I submit several versions of fire, fusion and steel, striker, brilliant lances, MT, mayday, snapshot, AHL, ACQ, Imperium, etc. all tend to militate against your 'underamed' comment. Add in Central Supply Catalog and a number of others. Traveller not only gives you lots of guns, it gives you *SYSTEMS TO BUILD NEW GUNS*.....
I have a problem with the real serious bad guy concept.
Maybe it is the difference in prison system. If you do not give someone the option of resolution, if your solution to murder and jaywalking are both life imprisonment, then there is no reason not to start shooting everyone nearby when cornered.
Now I live in a country where there is no such thing as judicial execution, going and placing that power in the hands of beat cops (who can also be serious bad guys(tm)) seems to me to be a bad idea.
Now what do you consider "bad guys"? I am far more afraid of corrupt police then I am of the near-mythical foaming at the mouth psycho.
Generally there is a reason people do what they do. Most criminals have a reason for how they act, either they have worked out they can garner greater resources from themselves by skirting legality, or they feel that they have no other option. Both can be reasoned with, and therefore talked down. If your choice is counciling and some rights restrictions, or death and similar restriction of rights for your family and associates, then there is a clear choice that anyone who is rational should be able to see.
If your universe if full of irrational psychotics who hate people for no reason then it would be more difficult to deal with. This certainly isn't the case on earth however.
Not in all cases. One of the common causes of violence is someone feeling that they are wronged, and that they have run out of options for redress.
As for negotiation not being succesful
this may change your mind. Specifically
" For example, in 1993, the Hostage Negotiations Team of the Seattle, Washington, Police Department resolved 21 incidents, expending a total of 263 negotiator hours. In 1994, negotiators resolved 32 incidents, spending 407 hours in negotiations."
53 cases in two years in a single small US city.
I have a problem with the real serious bad guy concept.
Maybe it is the difference in prison system. If you do not give someone the option of resolution, if your solution to murder and jaywalking are both life imprisonment, then there is no reason not to start shooting everyone nearby when cornered.
Now I live in a country where there is no such thing as judicial execution, going and placing that power in the hands of beat cops (who can also be serious bad guys(tm)) seems to me to be a bad idea.
Now what do you consider "bad guys"? I am far more afraid of corrupt police then I am of the near-mythical foaming at the mouth psycho.
Generally there is a reason people do what they do. Most criminals have a reason for how they act, either they have worked out they can garner greater resources from themselves by skirting legality, or they feel that they have no other option. Both can be reasoned with, and therefore talked down. If your choice is counciling and some rights restrictions, or death and similar restriction of rights for your family and associates, then there is a clear choice that anyone who is rational should be able to see.
If your universe if full of irrational psychotics who hate people for no reason then it would be more difficult to deal with. This certainly isn't the case on earth however.
Not in all cases. One of the common causes of violence is someone feeling that they are wronged, and that they have run out of options for redress.
As for negotiation not being succesful
this may change your mind. Specifically
" For example, in 1993, the Hostage Negotiations Team of the Seattle, Washington, Police Department resolved 21 incidents, expending a total of 263 negotiator hours. In 1994, negotiators resolved 32 incidents, spending 407 hours in negotiations."
53 cases in two years in a single small US city.
