Who Plays MGT And Loves It?

[fiat_knox]

Here we go again. Someone starts a thread for people who LIKE the game and here comes Whipsnade, and soon the others, and we get insulted and harassed.

And you can resist, by pointing out that you have the right to disagree with their view, and that browbeating dissension is the highest presumption and undemocratic.

Consensus in a lot of places, not just online, is that the game is good, the system is fit for purpose and the setting of the Third Imperium is back the way it used to be, with that sense of wonder waiting to be tapped, only with the 21st century twist that's necessary to give the game an appeal that will last till 2077 - an anniversary that sadly I may never get to see.

The evidence supporting your positive view, Allen, exists and it is overwhelming. Anyone who says otherwise is living in denial.

 

[Whipsnade]

...but you and your mob seem quite happy to tell him he's "wrong" about everything.

drh,

Me and my "mob" telling Matt he's wrong about "everything"? Huh?

There's no "mob" and most, not all, of what was posted dealt with specific issues.

Constructive feedback is critical in any endeavor.

Yes it is.

Wanton negativity doesn't serve any useful purpose though.

Wanton negativity? That entire thread is nothing but wanton negativity?

You and your cohorts on the other thread have offered very little in the way of constructive criticism - all you've done is pour on the spite and hate. One person even admitted as much.

My cohorts? Huh? Do you think we conspired together or something? Had secret handshakes before each meeting? Mike has admitted he hates MgT but he's the only one in that thread that hates it. The rest of us are disappointed instead.

If you're so keen on having things done "properly", why don't you do it yourself?

Ahh, this old fallacy rears it head yet again. If I can't sing like Tony Bennet how dare I critique the singing of anyone else? If I can't paint like Jackson Pollack how dare I critique the painting of anyone else? That doesn't bare even scrutiny.

Foreven is open for you to publish OTU material in, after all...

You got that very wrong, very very wrong. As long as I don't use MgT in the product and don't charge any money for it, I can publish whatever I like wherever I like so why limit myself?

The Mongoose-Foreven Straitjacket simply means no one is going to touch Foreven or MgT's rules. We've seen it happen already with the first issue of Frontier Report. It's sort of the reverse of the old GM's Preserve status.

... why not use that and use your energy more constructively instead of just going on and on about what you don't like about MGT and about how wrong they (and Marc Miller!) are? Or would that be too much effort for you? Go on, do it. I dare ya.

And you're complaining about other peoples' attitudes?

I have used my energy constructively. I just helped Mongoose's owner realize the need for an OTU pdf. I actively post here on a variety of topics, much more than four post in eight months I should add. I've got free materials hosted here, hosted at Freelance Traveller, in the TML Archives, and elsewhere across the 'net. I've even turned down playtest credits at SJGames.

I've a small body of work to point to. Where's yours?

I like that it's been modernized. (snip of other good examples)

Can you expand on "modernized"? What exactly makes it "modern" in your opinion?

I like that it's available on store shelves...

That is important. FFE has offered many products for years now, but the advertising hasn't been there so people didn't know about it.

... that there are new products continuously being released for it...

New products are good, as long as they're actually good. Crap is still crap, however, whether good or old. That being said, I am looking very much forward to Agents. It's an aspect of the game that has been woefully neglected for over thirty years and Mongoose has a chance to release something really good in it.

Sadly, because of Mongoose's track record, I won't be buying Agents sight unseen. I'll wait to read opinions of it. That's pretty sad when you realize that I'm a compleatist.

... and that it's being updated and supported by a company that is fully behind it.

Again, support is good as long as it's good support. Content and context counts.

There are things I don't like about it too. (big snip) But overall, I like it. It's not my favorite version of the game by any means, but I have other editions to plunder if I need material from them.

Thank you. That's very honest. I see many things in MgT to "plunder" also.

Such wanton positivity, I know... clearly I must be part of the "good news brigade".

Wanton positivity? Perish the thought! Instead why not call it what it was; a fair and nuanced critique that presented specific examples of what you felt is good and bad in MgT?

I think most of the opinions of MgT presented here can be said to be the same. Most, that is, not all.


Regards,
Bill

 

[fiat_knox]

On the topic of veciferous posting, just look around.

Along with the messianic" We must convert the new (none existant) players to the old ways" meme. Yah right, like that's happening in this generally poisonous atmsphere.

I agree, the atmosphere's pretty tainted.

So let's get terraforming. >

Then there is the keening wail that mongoose is not bringing any new people to traveller. Give me a break. It is selling well, it brought me and many other active posters on this forum and others to Traveller. You are trying to prove a negative, let it go already.

Hear, hear. The books are flying off the shelves in Fan Boy 3. They can't get enough of them. And the other day, I even converted a roleplaying virgin to MGT. He was looking at GURPS, but I soon turned him around.

That meant that I could go back and tell the Great Dark Master at the heart of the Mongoose Conspiracy that I had brought in another new recruit to the cult. Hail Satan.

 

[Madarin Dude]

One of the things I find from time to time here it is hard to keep up with the sheer volume of posts with the opposite opinion. Often by a few posters who take pleasure in denying others have enjoyment have such frequent and verbose posts that people grow tired and annoyed. Most people have limited time to post and compose their messages so it becomes disheartening to have a huge wave of negativity equaling and unabridged version of War and Peace coming at them in response o their simple message. I think those who have all this negativity should channel their energy more to their favorite version and let us enjoy our game.

I like Mongoose Traveller and play from time to time there are a few things I would change but that is true of every version. It is currently supported and they are going in some new directions to make it more of a generic system. ( I actually like that idea) Once there is a vehicle design system I will like it more.

 

[fiat_knox]

New products are good, as long as they're actually good. Crap is still crap, however, whether good or old. That being said, I am looking very much forward to Agents. It's an aspect of the game that has been woefully neglected for over thirty years and Mongoose has a chance to release something really good in it.

Sadly, because of Mongoose's track record, I won't be buying Agents sight unseen. I'll wait to read opinions of it. That's pretty sad when you realize that I'm a compleatist.

Hang on, Snade. You just contradicted yourself.

And if there is no mob, then it must be just you causing all the noise. One voice, against a lot of people who can become a mob.

In fact, if one person votes one way, and a host of people vote another way, the consensus goes with the majority, not the one lone voice. This is democracy.

And if it's just you, and there is no mob behind you, then the voices of people who like MGT must outnumber you.

So fish, or cut bait. Don't just try and throw the rod and tackle into the river just because you can't catch a fish.

 

[Allensh]

And you can resist, by pointing out that you have the right to disagree with their view, and that browbeating dissension is the highest presumption and undemocratic.

Consensus in a lot of places, not just online, is that the game is good, the system is fit for purpose and the setting of the Third Imperium is back the way it used to be, with that sense of wonder waiting to be tapped, only with the 21st century twist that's necessary to give the game an appeal that will last till 2077 - an anniversary that sadly I may never get to see.

The evidence supporting your positive view, Allen, exists and it is overwhelming. Anyone who says otherwise is living in denial.

Thank you. Your words, combined with Gene Vincent music playing on my laptop (loudly, I might add) are making me feel a lot better.

Allen

 

[Whipsnade]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Whipsnade was being sarcastic and putting down someone for their limited amount of posting.

CG,

You're not wrong and I was being sarcastic.

This is not very nice. Not nice at all.

You're correct. It isn't nice.

It's also not nice to be accused of being a "mugger" on a "soap box of hate"

Why do you have to attack them?

Because I was attacked to begin with? Not a very good reason, more of an excuse really.

In my opinion, I think this comment was over the line.

I think the "muggers" and "soapbox of hate" comments were marginal, but, after poking back, I engaged dhr in an actual conversation about what we both see as MgT's merits and deficits. What I didn't do was whine about those comments.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Hang on, Snade. You just contradicted yourself.

Fiat Knox,

Nice try, but no cookie.

dhr referred to my mob, implying that I'd somehow organized and led it. He also suggested it was an anti-MgT mob.

It wasn't a mob, it wasn't mine, and it wasn't anti-MgT.

What occurred was a few people with the same opinions regarding Mongoose's failings in MgT voiced those opinions and supported them with specific examples. When differing opinions - without specific examples - were presented we vigorously debated them. It's instructive to note that when no specific examples were forthcoming, a few on the other side of the discussion began their usual complaints about people being mean.

It was not an anti-MgT effort either. I know I've written about many things I like in MgT, as has Ty.


Regards,
Bill

 

[fiat_knox]

Good. So that's settled then.

You're posting here, so you must love Mongoose Traveller.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Now if you're actually saying something else, then you really don't need to be on this thread. This thread really is for people who like the game, not for people who want to detract from it for whatever personal reasons they might have.





And your own words belie your denial. The contradiction was evident.

 

[Whipsnade]

It probably was. But since this post must be for people who like Traveller, by posting here Whipsnade has made the tacit assumption that he too must like it, even deep down. And the more he posts here, the louder his protestations, the more it will become obvious that he likes the game. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Fiat Knox,

Protesting too much? I've written many times that I find several good things in MgT.

If you need an example, and it's apparent you do, use the "Find All Posts By" function on my profile and find the various Stewards thread in which I applaud and defend MgT's decision to include a rule that allowed players to "opt out" of the steward requirement for high passengers. In a few of those posts I even propose and explain my reasoning behind a robot, kennel, programming package that meets the new rule's 100K CrImp and one dTon "cost".

That's rather odd behavior from the frothing anti-MgT partisan you believe me to be.

Seriously, if you're going to bitch about what my opinions are, please make certain of what my opinions actually are.


Regards,
Bill

 

[ThunderChilde]

Oh for the love of Guh,

Every time a thread touches even tangentially on a warm feeling for a mongoose product a whole mob decends and trots out the same arguements that have been rolled out before over the last year or so. Can someone say they love winter weather without the blazing summer posse dragging the thread into a solarium?

Seriously, If I started a topic about what I love about GT, would it draw 300 posts mostly saying it sucks dog balls? Get real, if I wanted to start a serious flame war I could name the usual suspects vis a vis the mob in other words. I do not think there is a secret channel of comms with flashes like " OOH get that thread crapped now, they are feeling too good". You cannot assert that there is not a rouge's gallery that can be counted upon to dispute, impunge and disrupt any thread that purports a positive spin on MGT.

It happens every time. Just like this thread. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Whipsnade]

Here we go again. Someone starts a thread for people who LIKE the game and here comes Whipsnade, and soon the others, and we get insulted and harassed.

Allen,

When have I insulted and harassed you? Seriously, point to a post, any post, please.

I am asking you PLEASE STAY OUT OF HERE if you don't like Mongoose Traveller! At least this thread, please!

And now you determine where people can and cannot go?

I came here because I was accused of being a "mugger" standing on a "soapbox of hate". Nothing more. The person who made that accusation and I have cleared it up and now we both are now discussing what we both like about MgT.

Please note that; dhr and I are talking about what we both like about MgT. That's exactly what this thread is all about, isn't it?

By the way...I do run Mongoose Traveller and I and my players enjoy it. They have tried CT, and they were not impressed. They like MgT.

What specifically do they like about MgT? What can others 'port into their games?


Regards,
Bill

 

[fiat_knox]

So you do agree that you like Mongoose Traveller.

I knew I could convert you to the dark side. They really do make exceptionally good cookies, you know.

 

[Whipsnade]

So you do agree that you like Mongoose Traveller.

Fiat Knox,

Don't put words in my mouth. I've already suggested you take the time to review my actual opinions on the subject, so I'll suggest you do so again.

Thank you for dropping the word "love" from the most recent of your repeated attempts to bait me, your use of the word "like" is far more accurate. I like portions of MgT in the same manner that I like portions of all versions of Traveller.

There are several aspects of MgT that I like and I've written about them in this thread.


Regards,
Bill

 

[drh]

Hm... seven out of 35 posts on this thread express even an overall like of MGT, never mind love for it. Gee, it's great how people can stick to the topic. I'm just feeling the positivity here!

 

[far-trader]

Hm... seven out of 35 posts on this thread express even an overall like of MGT, never mind love for it. Gee, it's great how people can stick to the topic.

:rofl:

Please I'm trying to eat while catching up on the posts, it's hard when I had to laugh out loud at the irony.

You don't have to look far for where this thread went off the rails do you

 

[drh]

I really don't think there's any hope for this board.

 

[Allensh]

I really don't think there's any hope for this board.

not as long as this is allowed and apparently tacitly approved of

Allen

 

[Whipsnade]

You don't have to look far for where this thread went off the rails do you

Dan,

He sure doesn't, does he? Second post in the thread, wasn't it?

I'm wondering about the math myself. Only seven positive comments? Hell, I've made five alone:

Post #5 P.S. "FWIW, there are several aspects of MgT I very much like."

Post #9: 'I like the chargen. It neatly cleaned up the Basic-Advanced divide. The connections tables are useful too, provided they're written well. The tables in the core book were good while the ones in HG seem less useful. Like ATPollard, I see a great deal of roleplaying opportunities in the trade system. Too often trade has been more a matter of "roll-playing" than roleplaying."

Post #22: "That being said, I am looking very much forward to Agents. It's an aspect of the game that has been woefully neglected for over thirty years and Mongoose has a chance to release something really good in it."

Post #30: "... the various Stewards thread in which I applaud and defend MgT's decision to include a rule that allowed players to "opt out" of the steward requirement for high passengers."

Post #34: "There are several aspects of MgT that I like and I've written about them in this thread."

There's five positive comments right there from one poster who most here believe, wrongly, is part of some anti-MgT cabal.

There has been plenty of whining though, mostly about how other people are whining.


Regards,
Bill

 

[drh]

Hey, all I did was predict that the naysayers would invade this thread in the second post, and oh look they did. Now all you seem interested in doing is "scoring points" instead of actually talking about MGT positively. What a surprise.

Really, I don't care that you like bits of MGT. I don't care that you like other versions of Traveller either. What bothers me is that you and the others can't stop crapping on people who do say they do like it, and that you can't just shut up and play your favorite version of the game and leave everyone else to play theirs. Do you not get that some of us - a lot of us, most likely - don't actually care about the OTU and its precious holy sanctity? Do you not get that you can just keep playing Traveller in the "pure" way that you see fit without having to tell others that they're "wrong" for not playing it your way?

Either way, I notice that you failed to respond to my challenge. I'll reiterate it here for you:

If you guys are so keen on having things done "properly", why don't you do it yourselves? Foreven is open for you to publish OTU material in, and the OGL is there for anything else you could add... why not use those and use your energy more constructively instead of just going on and on about what you don't like about MGT and about how wrong Mongoose (and Marc Miller!) are? Or would that be too much effort for you? Don't tell me that you don't have time or inclination to do it - you seem to have plenty of time and inclination and energy to complain about it after all, so if you divert that time and inclination you should be able to come up with a rockin' new OTU product.

Go on, do it. I dare ya. :smirk:

Well? If you think you know how to do Traveller better than Mongoose or Marc Miller, get out there and prove it. Put your money where your mouth is. You can talk the talk on a discussion forum all you like, but can you get out there and walk the walk?