TC,
Those are among my many flaws.
I dislike unsupported statements and enjoy playing the devil's advocate. It's the engineer in me I guess.
Regards,
Bill
Who Plays MGT And Loves It?
- Thread starter fiat_knox
- Start date
TC,
Those are among my many flaws.
I dislike unsupported statements and enjoy playing the devil's advocate. It's the engineer in me I guess.
Regards,
Bill
Britti_Lover
SOC-10
:rofl:
I run GURPS - and I do mean ALOT of GURPS.......Gurps Traveller was a fabulous set of rules......
What I'm doing now with running GURPS STARWARS with THE SITH protecting the biggest secret the galaxy has ever known - THE SECRET OF THE ANCIENTS.....
Before this I ran the alternate GTIW adventure where the Imperuim won the Interstellar wars.....
Now - as for Mongoose Traveller - at a convention I ran GURPS at - this guy was running MGT - and I played in his game.
It was very, very, very good. Played like CT - but better. I read his MGT books at the game - very good solid books that I could easily run myself.
It is a fun game - loved playing it - and I will play more of it!!!
I run GURPS - and I do mean ALOT of GURPS.......Gurps Traveller was a fabulous set of rules......
What I'm doing now with running GURPS STARWARS with THE SITH protecting the biggest secret the galaxy has ever known - THE SECRET OF THE ANCIENTS.....
Before this I ran the alternate GTIW adventure where the Imperuim won the Interstellar wars.....
Now - as for Mongoose Traveller - at a convention I ran GURPS at - this guy was running MGT - and I played in his game.
It was very, very, very good. Played like CT - but better. I read his MGT books at the game - very good solid books that I could easily run myself.
It is a fun game - loved playing it - and I will play more of it!!!
saundby
SOC-14 1K
I like MGT, and I enjoy running it. I wish someone else in the area would run it so that I could play, too. I'm having a lot of fun with B5, as are my players. The published materials have been a mixed bag. The main book is something that I keep finding new lodes of gold in when I go back to it. This often happens, however, when I'm looking back at it after a weak later publication expanding on something in TMB.
The later publications I use more as enhancers that I mine for bits than something I consider "core" or must-have material. IMO, the amount of space dedicated to expanded careers hasn't been justified by the results I get from them in my game. In the B5 book it worked, as it ties the characters to the setting. In the black books, I usually just prefer to stick with TMB's version of a career where they overlap.
I like the practice of offering variant rules in the black books for general play styles. E.g. the "Space Opera" options. In fact, if something like this were offered for the expanded careers I'd find them more useful than I do now. For example, several different styles of 1D6 or 2D6 event tables rather than one big D66 table. E.g., a wartime table, a "peacetime" table, a space opera table, a hardcore table, etc. Half a dozen different takes that I could choose between on either a campaign-by-campaign basis, or even on a term-by-term basis to match a campaign timeline would be a heck of a lot more use to me than the D66 tables I've seen so far.
I'm not going to try to draw version comparisons. I've enjoyed CT for many years as both a ref and player. My players liked it as well, and if MGT hadn't come along we'd still be playing it, if I told the group this week we're going back I think the response would range from mild annoyance at "another" change of ruleset, to "Only if we finish out the B5 campaign with it, then OK."
I only ran into one CT game I didn't care for, with a group that no rule set would have worked for. I've got a copy of T4's core book now, I'm probably going to play it solo to give it a spin.
I like MGT, and the more I've played it the more I like it. But it's not all something to love, en masse. I love TMB, or at least the text and about 1/2-2/3rds of the art. (Still haven't seen the newer edition's art.)
The later publications I use more as enhancers that I mine for bits than something I consider "core" or must-have material. IMO, the amount of space dedicated to expanded careers hasn't been justified by the results I get from them in my game. In the B5 book it worked, as it ties the characters to the setting. In the black books, I usually just prefer to stick with TMB's version of a career where they overlap.
I like the practice of offering variant rules in the black books for general play styles. E.g. the "Space Opera" options. In fact, if something like this were offered for the expanded careers I'd find them more useful than I do now. For example, several different styles of 1D6 or 2D6 event tables rather than one big D66 table. E.g., a wartime table, a "peacetime" table, a space opera table, a hardcore table, etc. Half a dozen different takes that I could choose between on either a campaign-by-campaign basis, or even on a term-by-term basis to match a campaign timeline would be a heck of a lot more use to me than the D66 tables I've seen so far.
I'm not going to try to draw version comparisons. I've enjoyed CT for many years as both a ref and player. My players liked it as well, and if MGT hadn't come along we'd still be playing it, if I told the group this week we're going back I think the response would range from mild annoyance at "another" change of ruleset, to "Only if we finish out the B5 campaign with it, then OK."
I only ran into one CT game I didn't care for, with a group that no rule set would have worked for. I've got a copy of T4's core book now, I'm probably going to play it solo to give it a spin.
I like MGT, and the more I've played it the more I like it. But it's not all something to love, en masse. I love TMB, or at least the text and about 1/2-2/3rds of the art. (Still haven't seen the newer edition's art.)
Agreed. Too few (and not just here).
Play it, and like it.
1. Chargen. Random (or semi-random) prior history was the defining feature of CT, but it quickly became confusing and was totally biased toward the military. MGT fixes this while keeping the initial simplicity of CT, and adds the flexible and adaptable Events which are insanely useful, especially to a Ref. I'd now say Events make the character, not the skills.
2. The Task system. Possibly a minor development, but the linked task rules combined with Effect are really useful. Makes it possible, with some preparation, to grade non-numerical successes. Such as, when questioning an informant, you can list increasingly useful responses based on Effect. (E0 - tells you Bill lives in the starport. E1 - Bill lives at the starport, and likes country & western. E2 - Bill often goes to Smoky Joe's Cowboy bar, etc).
3. The Combat System. Yes, I really do! It's simple and streamlined, compared to other rpgs or even previous versions of Traveller. Not perfect, but I've already sorted some minimal house rules for armour piercing, for instance. And while I initially thought armour values were too low, through over a dozen extended combats I now find them pretty much a good balance.
4. New equipment. Fixing the room-sized compuer issue, simple but effective rules for augments.
5. Small craft rules. Making fighters finally viable.
6. Some more 'realistic' options for worldgen.
7. A wide variety of careers to choose from.
8. Productivity. Over 10 books released in just over a year. That's rapid by any measure!
Of course, that brings up the major downside, which is the varying quality of proofreading. Some rules could be more clearly explained (barrage attacks, for example), and some descriptions could have been better. However, the excellent return offer somewhat makes up for it. Not sent my Mercenary or High Guard in yet, as I've been getting good use out of them, but Agent and Scoundrel appear soon and they're what I've been waiting for.
So that's the positive.
Now to the negative. I'll certainly give that a lot of the stuff on 'the other' thread could be described as constructive criticism, but a lot of it also amounted to little more than rehashed bashing of the unfortunately described magrail guns. While Bill might be fierce in defence of his views, I admit that he has been, on the whole, polite and courteous. The same cannot be said for another of the 'critics', and while I've tried to avoid getting involved here on COTI in pointless debates sometimes the invective deserves a response, if only to make clear to any newbies that these views are only one POV among many.
1. Chargen. Random (or semi-random) prior history was the defining feature of CT, but it quickly became confusing and was totally biased toward the military. MGT fixes this while keeping the initial simplicity of CT, and adds the flexible and adaptable Events which are insanely useful, especially to a Ref. I'd now say Events make the character, not the skills.
2. The Task system. Possibly a minor development, but the linked task rules combined with Effect are really useful. Makes it possible, with some preparation, to grade non-numerical successes. Such as, when questioning an informant, you can list increasingly useful responses based on Effect. (E0 - tells you Bill lives in the starport. E1 - Bill lives at the starport, and likes country & western. E2 - Bill often goes to Smoky Joe's Cowboy bar, etc).
3. The Combat System. Yes, I really do!
It's simple and streamlined, compared to other rpgs or even previous versions of Traveller. Not perfect, but I've already sorted some minimal house rules for armour piercing, for instance. And while I initially thought armour values were too low, through over a dozen extended combats I now find them pretty much a good balance.4. New equipment. Fixing the room-sized compuer issue, simple but effective rules for augments.
5. Small craft rules. Making fighters finally viable.
6. Some more 'realistic' options for worldgen.
7. A wide variety of careers to choose from.
8. Productivity. Over 10 books released in just over a year. That's rapid by any measure!
Of course, that brings up the major downside, which is the varying quality of proofreading. Some rules could be more clearly explained (barrage attacks, for example), and some descriptions could have been better. However, the excellent return offer somewhat makes up for it. Not sent my Mercenary or High Guard in yet, as I've been getting good use out of them, but Agent and Scoundrel appear soon and they're what I've been waiting for.
So that's the positive.
Now to the negative. I'll certainly give that a lot of the stuff on 'the other' thread could be described as constructive criticism, but a lot of it also amounted to little more than rehashed bashing of the unfortunately described magrail guns. While Bill might be fierce in defence of his views, I admit that he has been, on the whole, polite and courteous. The same cannot be said for another of the 'critics', and while I've tried to avoid getting involved here on COTI in pointless debates sometimes the invective deserves a response, if only to make clear to any newbies that these views are only one POV among many.
I absolutely love MGT. I think the rules are simple, the streamlining makes the game run smooth, it fixes problems with the atrocious combat system, it has completely breathed new life into the game and there are all sorts of neat products coming out. Some of those products I plan on buying... some of them not, but for me, and I am a returning Traveller fan from the 80's (though not hardcore) Mongoose is the only system I plan on running.
Personally, I think it's hilarious that people would even throw the hissy fit that they are while stalking the one forum where they shouldn't be interested. It's a game. More importantly, it's MY game.
I think a lot of the time spent bitching, moaning and stroking 1970's era bundles of paper and notes could be used in a positive way like reviving this dusty old forum. New ideas and enthusiasm are pretty dang absent here. Maybe some of the other forums could get some love... like Adventurers, or the planet/system forums?
It's no surprise that the entire board is stagnant when they scream foul at any sign of change. The only reason I hang out here is for the occasional OTU historical question, the fact that Hemdian is on here and it's also the home of Gateway to Destiny (my all-time favorite and the most informative, detailed Traveller book ever. Mongoose should take notes...).
I'm running an RPOL game right now and loving it. Can't wait to move back in a few months as my old group is all ready to bring back the Traveller!
Personally, I think it's hilarious that people would even throw the hissy fit that they are while stalking the one forum where they shouldn't be interested. It's a game. More importantly, it's MY game.
I think a lot of the time spent bitching, moaning and stroking 1970's era bundles of paper and notes could be used in a positive way like reviving this dusty old forum. New ideas and enthusiasm are pretty dang absent here. Maybe some of the other forums could get some love... like Adventurers, or the planet/system forums?
It's no surprise that the entire board is stagnant when they scream foul at any sign of change. The only reason I hang out here is for the occasional OTU historical question, the fact that Hemdian is on here and it's also the home of Gateway to Destiny (my all-time favorite and the most informative, detailed Traveller book ever. Mongoose should take notes...).
I'm running an RPOL game right now and loving it. Can't wait to move back in a few months as my old group is all ready to bring back the Traveller!
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Actually I come here to look at the beautiful strawman some people here build. They are really nice to look at.
captainjack
SOC-13
Ah. Nice. Good to see you aren't stooping to trolling.
I think this thread's built of more lasting stuff than straw. It's built of defiant optimism, and a need to maintain that sense of wonder that draws gamers to Traveller - Mongoose Traveller, in particular.
I will state my one, most compelling, reason why I love Mongoose Traveller.
It is accessible.
You can grab some six sided dice, a pencil and the core rulebook and, like CT, start playing right off the bat. Everything's explained, including the options - which are labelled as such, and which exist to enrich the experience for more advanced players, rather than screw their lives up.
And, to date, buying the core rulebook doesn't cost the Earth. Or indeed any other planet.
Plus, there's thirty-some years' worth of back story already available. Just Google it, and you'll know the basics about everything in the OTU, virtually as if the standard Ship's Library of some Traveller starship had been transplanted into the real world.
Most of all, MGT has access to something that none of the previous incarnations had at their inception: a ready-made community of optimists and grognards, young and old, old and new, who can be accessed at any time through the Intarwebs. Hell, you can even talk to the Head Honchos themselves, the guys and gals who put the words into the documents and draw the illustrations. and the man who commissions the books themselves.
So this thread is hardly a "strawman" argument. Judging by the evidence of the sales figures, I'd say that this game's got a pretty solid base of fans, and anything that attempts to disrupt that solid, strong market not only smacks of sour grapes, it's actually doomed to failure.
I will state my one, most compelling, reason why I love Mongoose Traveller.
It is accessible.
You can grab some six sided dice, a pencil and the core rulebook and, like CT, start playing right off the bat. Everything's explained, including the options - which are labelled as such, and which exist to enrich the experience for more advanced players, rather than screw their lives up.
And, to date, buying the core rulebook doesn't cost the Earth. Or indeed any other planet.
Plus, there's thirty-some years' worth of back story already available. Just Google it, and you'll know the basics about everything in the OTU, virtually as if the standard Ship's Library of some Traveller starship had been transplanted into the real world.
Most of all, MGT has access to something that none of the previous incarnations had at their inception: a ready-made community of optimists and grognards, young and old, old and new, who can be accessed at any time through the Intarwebs. Hell, you can even talk to the Head Honchos themselves, the guys and gals who put the words into the documents and draw the illustrations. and the man who commissions the books themselves.
So this thread is hardly a "strawman" argument. Judging by the evidence of the sales figures, I'd say that this game's got a pretty solid base of fans, and anything that attempts to disrupt that solid, strong market not only smacks of sour grapes, it's actually doomed to failure.
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
Getting down to brass tacks,
There is damn little in my life right now that brings me any joy. MGT brings a burning spark of what kept me in as a Gamer, to my otherwise gloomy week in week out, month in, etc.. I like reading the books, looking at how some rules fit well and other take work to get a grip on (Barrages). I've spent no little amount of time building ships, something I haven't done in 25 years. I come here to talk about my little shining joy, and usually have wade through a great deal of chaff from folks who don't share my sense of wonder.
I get better, calmer, friendlier and far more on topic ideas and disccusions on other forums here at Coti. I suppose I should feel some happiness that the MGT forum is the most active, if only it was more germaine to the topic.
I made a reference to dead games yesterday, it's a local colloqialism. If the company is gone, if you can't get it in a store, if you can only get old out print or old reprints, its a dead game. We still play dead games, if we like them, just usually can't replace what wears out. Villain's and Vigilantes is a fine example, as is Street Fighter.
I'll also note that the dissmissive spin off of an allegedly supportive thread, "Why pay more for less?"; is now approaching five times the number of posts than the thread it was removed from, " What YOU like about MGT". This thread has largely not been about what we like about MGT.
The general ugliness in that thread is why I stopped reading it a few days ago. No where else on COTI do I walk away from threads and forums because of general bitterness and spite, its why I left the pit shortly after I found it. I've left a couple MGT threads for the same reasons. Likewise I've taken breaks from COTI, I had too.
I shouldn't come here to have my blood pressure jacked up, on this I agree with my Doc.
There is damn little in my life right now that brings me any joy. MGT brings a burning spark of what kept me in as a Gamer, to my otherwise gloomy week in week out, month in, etc.. I like reading the books, looking at how some rules fit well and other take work to get a grip on (Barrages). I've spent no little amount of time building ships, something I haven't done in 25 years. I come here to talk about my little shining joy, and usually have wade through a great deal of chaff from folks who don't share my sense of wonder.
I get better, calmer, friendlier and far more on topic ideas and disccusions on other forums here at Coti. I suppose I should feel some happiness that the MGT forum is the most active, if only it was more germaine to the topic.
I made a reference to dead games yesterday, it's a local colloqialism. If the company is gone, if you can't get it in a store, if you can only get old out print or old reprints, its a dead game. We still play dead games, if we like them, just usually can't replace what wears out. Villain's and Vigilantes is a fine example, as is Street Fighter.
I'll also note that the dissmissive spin off of an allegedly supportive thread, "Why pay more for less?"; is now approaching five times the number of posts than the thread it was removed from, " What YOU like about MGT". This thread has largely not been about what we like about MGT.
The general ugliness in that thread is why I stopped reading it a few days ago. No where else on COTI do I walk away from threads and forums because of general bitterness and spite, its why I left the pit shortly after I found it. I've left a couple MGT threads for the same reasons. Likewise I've taken breaks from COTI, I had too.
I shouldn't come here to have my blood pressure jacked up, on this I agree with my Doc.
Then perhaps people should turn that pernicious thread on its head, and reverse the trend of negativity.
Invade and threadjack the thread. Bring the more positive aspects of MGT to light. Keep pressing the point, to refute the aggression of the minority of fussketeers.
These are threads, not kingdoms and fiefdoms to be broken and annexed like terrain in a war. They're threads. Information. The fussketeers don't own them. And they can be corrected if you assert your right as a member of the forum to post here about any aspect of MGT that you like, even if it offends them. You don't need their permission to discuss MGT. They're not the boss of you.
Show them that.
Invade and threadjack the thread. Bring the more positive aspects of MGT to light. Keep pressing the point, to refute the aggression of the minority of fussketeers.
These are threads, not kingdoms and fiefdoms to be broken and annexed like terrain in a war. They're threads. Information. The fussketeers don't own them. And they can be corrected if you assert your right as a member of the forum to post here about any aspect of MGT that you like, even if it offends them. You don't need their permission to discuss MGT. They're not the boss of you.
Show them that.
Massive thread jack moved to http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=19484
Madarin Dude
SOC-13
Well overall it is a good product they are coming out with new material at a prolific rate. The quality is good not perfection but about as good as any other version of Traveller i have played or owned in the past.
Is it perfect no nothing ever is it works and us usable. I would much rather play Mongoose Traveller than sit around on my computer and complain about it for hours on end. I feel sorry for people who have to do that. I guess you take what joy you can from it.
Is it perfect no nothing ever is it works and us usable. I would much rather play Mongoose Traveller than sit around on my computer and complain about it for hours on end. I feel sorry for people who have to do that. I guess you take what joy you can from it.
ThunderChilde
SOC-13
So it has come to this
Sad day when a man the barrackades meme is needed, possibly required on what alledgedly is supposed to be a place where we can all get together and share our common passion. Seems not to be so common after all, I had such high hopes when I found COTI.
I was a member here for a few months before I found a job and could afford to buy MGT. I'll note that the number of active members has been on a downward trend, I don't think the rancorous wars on the MGT forum are helping, not at all. For a little while there it looked like the general tone of dissmissive vitriol was fading away. Thats about when I had enough "mad money" to consider sponsoring COTI, and I did so.
If this trend continues it's downward trajectory, I'll need to find another board to take up citizenship on. MGT supporters are getting marginalized here, and that cannot be good for the board.
Sad day when a man the barrackades meme is needed, possibly required on what alledgedly is supposed to be a place where we can all get together and share our common passion. Seems not to be so common after all, I had such high hopes when I found COTI.
I was a member here for a few months before I found a job and could afford to buy MGT. I'll note that the number of active members has been on a downward trend, I don't think the rancorous wars on the MGT forum are helping, not at all. For a little while there it looked like the general tone of dissmissive vitriol was fading away. Thats about when I had enough "mad money" to consider sponsoring COTI, and I did so.
If this trend continues it's downward trajectory, I'll need to find another board to take up citizenship on. MGT supporters are getting marginalized here, and that cannot be good for the board.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I fully support MgT.
I've bought all the books - and used very little from it
I fully support MgT using their Traveller rules to do stuff like B5, JD, SD (are rogue trooper, the VCs, ABC warriors and Nemesis ever going to come out?) because they provide material I may be able to use.
I've bought all the books - and used very little from it
I fully support MgT using their Traveller rules to do stuff like B5, JD, SD (are rogue trooper, the VCs, ABC warriors and Nemesis ever going to come out?) because they provide material I may be able to use.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
You will have to turn in your CT membership card now, Sigg. Men will be arriving at your place of business, and, I'm sorry, but it will be necessary to cuff you. This is for your own protection.
Just go with the nice men peacefully. We'll inform your family.
Everything will be allll--riiiight.
You'll see.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Lol which card - I have nine copies of the various CT incarnations.
I support MgT because it has potential, but I'm still waiting for something to make me go wow.
CT is a done deal, there will be no more official stuff (unless I win the lottery and buy the rights from marc...)
which card - I have nine copies of the various CT incarnations.I support MgT because it has potential, but I'm still waiting for something to make me go wow.
CT is a done deal, there will be no more official stuff (unless I win the lottery and buy the rights from marc...)
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I don't consider myself a MgT player, but I've played a few sessions at conventions and enjoyed it.
Any RPG is a closed, artificial world represented by rules. When you "live" in that world, you accept and abide by those rules. Every version of Traveller models its own reality via unique rules. You can like them or dislike them according to taste, but they're all equally valid because they're all equally closed and artificial.
In the end, I really don't give a hoot about the rules beyond intellectual curiosity. I'll take lousy rules with a solid GM over solid rules with a lousy GM any day.
Steve
Any RPG is a closed, artificial world represented by rules. When you "live" in that world, you accept and abide by those rules. Every version of Traveller models its own reality via unique rules. You can like them or dislike them according to taste, but they're all equally valid because they're all equally closed and artificial.
In the end, I really don't give a hoot about the rules beyond intellectual curiosity. I'll take lousy rules with a solid GM over solid rules with a lousy GM any day.
Steve
