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Why do you hate the Virus

I've just scoured the Traveller Wiki for info on Virus. I see that TNE happened between 1992-1995 (about the time I dropped the game because of real life stuff). The article on virus is particular about how it thrived, but not all of what it did other than "scour life".

Is there a source book that's good for the background material? Is it available on Driviethru via PDF?

I'm kind of curious about it now because I totally skipped this portion of Traveller, and never bought one book from it.

Either Survival Margin or the TNE Core rules. Both are on DTRPG.
 
That's a large part of it, but also Matthew's frequent statements in the blog in 2008 that "there is no Official Traveller Universe."
We are eight years on from that and MgT has dozens of supplements set within the Third Imperium. They are even producing a guide to the Third Imperium setting book after the second edition is done.
 
I've just scoured the Traveller Wiki for info on Virus. I see that TNE happened between 1992-1995 (about the time I dropped the game because of real life stuff). The article on virus is particular about how it thrived, but not all of what it did other than "scour life".

Is there a source book that's good for the background material? Is it available on Driviethru via PDF?

I'm kind of curious about it now because I totally skipped this portion of Traveller, and never bought one book from it.
Asking people who dislike Virus what's a good Virus book? :eek:o: :rofl: As I said, I will try to be objective, but I LIKE Virus...so my recommendations are tinged to get you like Virus. I admit it.
First get TNE-0000 Understanding Traveller: The New Era. Not terribly helpful, but free is free.
Before purchasing, I would recommend you consider the FFE CD-ROMS http://www.farfuture.net/FFE-CDROMs.html first as there are to sets at $35 a pop.
TNE Set 1 covers the GDW New Era material
TNE Set 2 covers the 1248 New New Era, Challenge Magazine Articles and related adventures
My Opinion: The best single book would be 1248 Sourcebook 1: Out of the Darkness as a history sourcebook. The PDF is 168 pages, rules lite, 60 of which as it describes, for better or worse, what happens to ALL the Rebellion Factions due to Virus, thru the TNE era and gets you to the Fourth Imperium. Then you can see why everyone loves or hates Virus. :) That one book alone would do it, but it is only in TNE Set 2 now.

If not willing or able to make the commitment there, these are what I are recommended and why.
TNE-0300 Traveller: The New Era - Main Rulebook, overview of the three general campaigns (Star Vikings, Domain of Deneb/Regency, Hub Worlds), Virus and how it works and the Types and behaviors/personalities of Virus explained, and the rules on changing/destroying UWP due do Virus effects.
TNE-0309 Path of Tears - The Star Viking campaign book (set in the Diaspora/Old Expanses) detailing coming out of the ashes, and Hivers who recovered faster and are just around to help out (or are they?)
TNE-0314 Regency Sourcebook: Keepers of the Flame - The Survivors of Virus (Spinward Marches, Deneb, Trojan Reach, Reft Sectors), the desperate measures that were taken to survive Virus. It has become a relative melting pot so now you can have an Aslan, Vargr and Zhodani noble all be in the same party at once?!?

I personally would not recommend TNE-0301 Survival Margin. It is not as useful as the other three for comparable price. To be fair, of its 104 pages, it does explain the TNE/GDW house system and character conversion, how to get 70 years into the future and an briefer overview of the campaigns and the nitty gritty on how Virus works. BUT...the first 60+ pages deal with TNS reports prior to the release of Virus on 079-1130 (pg. 63) with no real intro or prefacing framing the TNS within the context that this book is about TNE. It does serve to make you cry about the Rebellion though...
 
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Why do you hate the Virus?

Is there a version of the Virus that you could love?

I personally love the Virus. Instead, I hate what was done with it and why it was introduced.

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit the way the Virus works is really pretty hokey. Nilsen's attempt to half-explain how the Virus works then leave the rest to conjecture involving a lot of dodgy computer technology sort of bugs me at some level.

What I mean by half-explain is that the Cymbaline lifeforms are indeed 'silicon blanks' and they do 'etch' their programming onto the chips. They do use little discharges of static electricity to physically move around. Then he explains that the DEYO transponders use a 'lobotomized' version of the Cymbaline lifeform to function. However, he never explains if these weird traits that the Cymbaline lifeforms have are shared by "normal" computers in the Imperium but it is suggested that they do - in a few places (I think in Survival Margin in fact) it is stated that you can pick up the tiny "electric surges" as the Virus developing in a standard computer "cuts new circuitry" which is how the Cymbaline lifeform works, suggesting that Imperial computers do actually use similar mechanisms to the Cybaline lifeform; does that mean that if you open up the service panel a Model-2bis computer or something a bunch of silicon chips will come leaping out like sentient confetti and go hopping down the hall on sparking discharges of static electricity like some cattle drive to Frisco gone horribly wrong? Who knows, it's never explained how similar the Cybaline lifeform is to standard computer hardware.

However annoying that is, I'm willing to overlook it like the other "impossible" stuff in Traveller - how the virus works is pretty easy to change to suit a game to make it do the things it needs to do. After all, I overlook all kinds of other things in Traveller too. I'm willing to look over Jump Drives, because without those we don't have universe (the rule for me with 'hard sci-fi' is that they're allowed one blatant violation of the laws of physics as we know them, and Jump Drive is that violation I will give a pass to). Plasma and fusion guns would not work the way they're described but few players seem to be flipping tables over that. Similarly Mesons don't work that way (and neither would Meson guns therefore) and I don't see anyone demanding we all burn the Traveller books that introduced those over that, either. (However, before I sound too smug, I'll come out and admit I do have a book-throwing pet peeve that gets my irrational goat up like the Virus for many on this thread: Psionics.)

My biggest issue with the Virus is that it was ... a way to clean the plate instead of some legitimate thing on its own. To my understanding, GDW had a number of desires that led to the creation of the TNE. One, the issue with the Rebellion being a grinding civil war that the playerbase wanted to win and/or see resolved by their own power instead of simply grinding on in the background, was detailed by another poster. Another was that apparently GDW felt that Traveller was simply weighed down by its own "canon" and that it was difficult for new players to get into, so they wanted a fresh start that new players could get into the game with.

To clean the plate, they needed to not only eradicate the 3I, they needed to eradicate all the nations around the 3I ... flatten the entirety of Known Space in essence. They couldn't let the Imperium simply implode because that'd leave the Imperium's neighbors essentially untouched. But whatever it was, it needed to mostly remove itself when its job was done - like the story in the TNE rulebook, it needed to be like a forest fire, burning down the old and leaving fertile ground for the future instead of like some kudzu vine which overgrows everything, destroying the forest, but then sticks around. So they had the Virus flatten everything, then die off. (Of course, I'm curious to know when GDW decided to violate this idea and let the Spinward marches stick around.)

Then I feel that GDW / Nilsen blinked. They realized the Virus would not simply go away that completely. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball at that point. Instead of doing something with this new development, exploring it, making it interesting and a source of wonder that the OTU sorely lacks, Nilsen suggested we pidgeonhole the Virus into dragons in D&D - few and far between instead of game dominating (the RC Sourcebook on the Virus) as well as insane. No idea why they have to be insane. Alien? Sure. Insane? Err... (let's not even get into the idea of judging what is insane across species).

Unfortunately, he didn't follow his own advice -- perhaps because of himself, perhaps because of player pressure, he continued to focus on the Virus and became the Rebellion all over again. While products like the Gilded Lily were pretty good and intriguing, Path of Tears was simply the best RPG book I've ever bought because it really embodied TNE's original mission of making the players the movers and difference-makers and it was pretty open-ended. OFC, there was Smash and Grab that was terrible and cast the RC as a bunch of kill them all types - before then I had the impression that SAG raids were actually not all that common and very reluctantly used as a last resort. SAG the sourcebook basically led me to the conclusion, no, for many RC forces that's their first and last resort.

Then he introduced the Virus Fleets sourcebook and with it, the terrible ghost of an unwanted ancestor - the Sandman plot.

The Sandman plot was a Charted Space changing story, and the players are once again onlookers as Sandman must make it to the RC to fulfill the next steps of Nilsen's vision for the TNE universe. Wasn't this what GDW wanted to get away from in TNE, forcing players to mostly be powerless spectators to the big events? Oh well. Maybe the result is worth it. No, no it wasn't. The Virus through Sandman transformed into this awful thing, sanctimonious and tacky at the same time, pretty much as bad as anything in the Hiver and Ithklur book in its own saccharin way.

(And the Princess Wave - that was Nilsen's solution because he wasn't happy with how psionics worked iirc. What a night terror that was.)
 
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While the Rebellion felt wrong, and sort of gave off a Star Wars vibe, a description of the Virus and Vampire fleets (I've never really read TNE background) seems BSGish, which was certainly not the direction I wanted to go, and mention of the Empress Wave pretty much convinced me that this timeline wasn't for me.

I think the difference between universe altering events in D&D and Traveller, is that you had so many settings based on the game system, that you could pick and choose what to apply in your game setting, either small parts or the entirety, and the degree as to how these universal alterations actually impacted your gameplay; the Gods had a falling out and there seems to be a new pecking order, carry on.
 
The problem is bigger than Virus. Arguably, Mike Metlay's tirade was prophetic of a change in the feel of Traveller.

Reading thru TNE material, Traveller appears to have stopped being Traveller, and instead became a variant of 2300AD: "2300AD with jump drive and 2D starcharts".

This is reasonable, since the authors of Twilight:2000 and 2300AD were put in charge of the line, ad the house rules were T:2000.

I wonder if those few Babylon 5 titles that Mongoose published for Traveller FELT like Babylon 5 any longer to old fans of B5?
 
Nathan Brazil; thanks for the heads and recommendations. Virus sounds ... interesting.

Side note; since MgT appears to be taking Traveller back to an "Optional Background if you like" framework all the while T5 is interweaving the B.G. with the rules, I see conflict between MgT and T5 on the rise stemming from the whole Virus-Rebellion flavor fiction.
 
T5 is going to move the setting forward to the Galaxiad era - 1900 Imperial there or there about.
The TL of the setting will advance to make ~TL20 the cap, so sentient machines, augmented humans and totally synthetic beings will all be standard trope (and found within the T5 rules).

This will make Virus etc. a mere footnote in history - this is when sentient machines became a thing.

I really really want the galxiad to happen and not turn out to be vapourware.
 
We are eight years on from that and MgT has dozens of supplements set within the Third Imperium. They are even producing a guide to the Third Imperium setting book after the second edition is done.

And Matthew still refers to it only as "the Original Traveller Universe"....
ust because he hasn't changed the majority of peoples minds doesn't mean he's changed his, nor given up trying.
 
I personally love the Virus. Instead, I hate what was done with it and why it was introduced.

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit the way the Virus works is really pretty hokey...I feel that GDW / Nilsen blinked. They realized the Virus would not simply go away that completely. ... he continued to focus on the Virus and became the Rebellion all over again. While products like the Gilded Lily were pretty good and intriguing, Path of Tears was simply the best RPG book I've ever bought because it really embodied TNE's original mission of making the players the movers and difference-makers and it was pretty open-ended. OFC, there was Smash and Grab that was terrible and cast the RC as a bunch of kill them all types - before then I had the impression that SAG raids were actually not all that common and very reluctantly used as a last resort. SAG the sourcebook basically led me to the conclusion, no, for many RC forces that's their first and last resort.

Then he introduced the Virus Fleets sourcebook and with it, the terrible ghost of an unwanted ancestor - the Sandman plot.

The Sandman plot was a Charted Space changing story, and the players are once again onlookers as Sandman must make it to the RC to fulfill the next steps of Nilsen's vision for the TNE universe. Wasn't this what GDW wanted to get away from in TNE, forcing players to mostly be powerless spectators to the big events? Oh well. Maybe the result is worth it. No, no it wasn't. The Virus through Sandman transformed into this awful thing, sanctimonious and tacky at the same time, pretty much as bad as anything in the Hiver and Ithklur book in its own saccharin way.

(And the Princess Wave - that was Nilsen's solution because he wasn't happy with how psionics worked iirc. What a night terror that was.)

I'd say your analysis is pretty good. I agree with a lot of it. However, I don't think Virus was intended to go away. It was a new race in the mix to stir up the game.

Smash and Grab had a certain sense of irony to it. The Star Vikings we're suppose to be the heroes bringing up the new Empire and ended up being the bad guys. Perspective thought for any player groups running these missions, but certainly not a positive twist. In a real universe these characters may have become so powerful they could not be pushed out of the RC. That is why i built my own pocket empire instead of utilizing OTU for TNE.
 
Your commentary, Murph. I thought you made some good points, and that they were worthy of T5 improvement.
 
I'm late to this discussion but I'll throw in my 2 credits worth. I quite frankly missed out on MT,TNE and 1248 due to real life. When I finally got back into Traveller and was playing catch up I had a lot of trouble with Virus and it's ability to transmit via radio, the Cymbeline chips needed physical contact to etch/overwrite other chips. And the hand wave about Deyo circuits... what, did planetary fusion plants or arcologies have IFF? I don't hate Virus, I just have a hard time swallowing it. Aramis' point of psionic ability is a whole new ballgame, I never had the thought of that and I will now have to go back and reread my Virus stuff with that in mind (Bah, thanks for the project Aramis :) )

Regarding the Empress Wave, my initial reaction to reading about that was what, you can't just jump past the leading edge of the shock-wave or coldberth through it? Was it supposed to be like the mother of all Maghiz? I can go for the speed bump theory but then I have to figure out how to explain the collapse of the Zhodani

Augh my brain, you're all making me think! :rofl:
 
Augh my brain, you're all making me think! :rofl:
The answer has been right in front of you all the time.
Proto-Traveller.
Grab your LBB 1-3 (or The Traveller Book or Starter Traveller) and just play. :)

It is called F U N.
Try it, you might like it.
 
For me it started back at Adventure 15, Signal GK. The sentient chips never really sat well with me. Using them as the basis for what I felt was a dodgy explanation for how to do IFF compounded the issue as did the utter lack of computer security evidenced by all of known space in the setting. I realize that Virus was intended to serve a very specific purpose for GDW, Dave Nilsen has said as much, but I couldn't sufficiently suspend my disbelief. Related to this is the fact the Virus was used as the agent to wipe the slate clean and replace it with a setting that felt very un-Traveller to me. (Yes, I know the SM was out there still but GDW imploded before we really got back there).

I think Loren's approach for GT made a lot more sense.
 
When I finally got back into Traveller and was playing catch up I had a lot of trouble with Virus and it's ability to transmit via radio . . .

There are real-world viruses/worms that are able to transmit themselves by high-frequency sound (out of human hearing range) from one device in a room to another. I don't see why radio is such a stretch.
 
I feel that I should mention that our real world computer security posture, especially where the public infrastructure is concerned, isn't that good either . . .
 
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