Vladika
SOC-14 1K
That could just as easily be a hull eating nanomachine .......... :devil:
Windows/Viewports in Bridge/Control Cabin
- Thread starter SpaceBadger
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That could just as easily be a hull eating nanomachine .......... :devil:
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Same for sensors. In the army we learned to attack tank sensors devices and view ports. Smearing with mud or grease if possible is primitive, but works.
I agree, but my point is that they are both viable and each has some advantages over the other. For a warship, you may want to enclose the bridge in masses amount of armour, making windows an impossibility.
Also, as tech makes sensors/cams cheaper and ubiquitous, the desire to look out of a window will become less and less a "natural urge" for some applications. With regards to extremely long range combat where a person, even with optical help, won't be able to resolve a target, the window will be less and less of an asset, and sensors more of one, so improvements to the sense-around suite will eventually make it the default, rather than a luxury.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
So, you are going smear mud or grease on a star ship's MANY sensors?
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
No, I was discussing Earth Tanks. Point being sensors are subject to damage and surface components easily damaged.
Though the rules never seem too cover it (CT & HG at any rate), EMP should do a serious number on electronics. (Fiber Optics fine, but not every part is so protected).
I just suggest, for me anyway, that I'd rather have a view port for landings should electronics be out. That and it's just nice to a real view. Sunrises are nice on the LED flat screen, but, I prefer them in person.
Same for landing a ship, or aircraft, should the electronics go out at a poor time.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
But, if I needed to lift ahead of another ship, and cared to have it delayed, why not?
It's worth noting, Vladika, most of the time, that which takes out a ship's sensors is likely to take out the controls as well.
Ship sensors have to be hardened versus many forms of radiation, including low level EMP, simply to remain functional in transiting the Van Allen belts of worlds with significant magnetosphere.
Ship sensors have to be hardened versus many forms of radiation, including low level EMP, simply to remain functional in transiting the Van Allen belts of worlds with significant magnetosphere.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
I get that, and see the point. I am thinking though that on a final glide-slope approach, the electrical system can go out for a number of reasons. Either problems on the ground or the landing craft, plane or ship. Not exactly the best of timing.
There is/was an old dirt strip in Virginia known as "South Norfolk Field". No lights or any other aid but a wind sock. After dark landings were not recommended at the best of times and were often made by car headlight. This was in the early 70s and I can see the same thing at a "E" or "X" Starport.
For that matter the US east coast is full of old dirt strips from WWII used then for anti submarine patrols. Now a few of them are used for "other" reasons...
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Yes, but the terror level isn't the same.
Override the bridge hatch and lock it, at the same time the cracks/tunnels first begin to appear in the window...... :smirk:Next thing I know, you'll be wanting to install surge suppressors on bridge equipment or something!
Viewports might serve a purpose in some cultures and for certain types of vessels, and in various locations on a ship. Some cultures (some alien ones I might postulate, and some totally space-based cultures) might avoid them religiously - might even freak out when they realize they are looking out one in your ship. As is often said: what effect do you want in your story? It's your game.
One other thought - jump space. If you use the concept that looking into jump space inspires some sort of dementia, then you have an extra incentive, perhaps, to remove viewports from your vessel.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Yes, but the terror level isn't the same.
Next thing I know, you'll be wanting to install surge suppressors on bridge equipment or something!
Viewports might serve a purpose in some cultures and for certain types of vessels, and in various locations on a ship. Some cultures (some alien ones I might postulate, and some totally space-based cultures) might avoid them religiously - might even freak out when they realize they are looking out one in your ship. As is often said: what effect do you want in your story? It's your game.
One other thought - jump space. If you use the concept that looking into jump space inspires some sort of dementia, then you have an extra incentive, perhaps, to remove viewports from your vessel.
Jump Space has always been my justification for huge computers... IMTU, jump space makes semiconductors less reliable, but vacuum tubes are relatively unaffected, so ship's computing is almost exclusively micro-vacuum tube systems.
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/05/return-of-the-vacuum-tube.html?ref=hp
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/05/return-of-the-vacuum-tube.html?ref=hp
Mind you, a 150nm vacuum tube gate diode is roughly 50x the smallest semiconducting cell size in linear dimension... some 7500x the overall size. Still, they're only about 700x the size of common memory cells, so... they're quite practical. And practically immune to low end EMP, and highly resistant to high end.
Having actually repaired conventional vacc tube systems as a kid, a few years before playing Traveller, the notion of a vacc tube system in a space ship, well, never held any appeal. But, with modern micro (and nano scale) versions, I like the concept.
IMTU a diverse variety of tech has always been (early 80's) a part of starship systems. Notably, fluidics for control and processing systems. This was my sci-fi 'solution' to RW vulnerabilities of electronic from electromagnetic interference (inc. EMP) and of photonic systems (fiber optic) to radiation (ala rad induced attenuation). Pure mechanical I didn't know was potentially viable being of the 'solid state' generation, myself.
Fluidics being non-conventional fits well in Sci-Fi, and also works well for explaining the huge size of CT computers. I never really added skills to CT, just expanded the meaning of existing ones to cover gaps - so Computer, Engineering, Electronic and Mechanical skills cover troubleshooting and repair of fluidic systems, situationally.
Of course, electronic and photonic systems can be shielded and rad hardened - an area in the RW which has evolved dramatically as applications have required it since I first 'conceptualized' things for MTU.
As to viewports and windows on starships, with exceptions for lower and higher TLs, mine have them for non-automated, human run ships. I assume material science tech evolved to the function (ala 'transparium'). I consider them weak points on the hull for purposes of story telling (pun), as they provide a visibly describable non-complete failure. However, while they are weaker, they are simply thicker to compensate - and 'weld' into the hull with as good a join as any other part of the hull. Its a drama tool.<shrug>
IMTU a diverse variety of tech has always been (early 80's) a part of starship systems. Notably, fluidics for control and processing systems. This was my sci-fi 'solution' to RW vulnerabilities of electronic from electromagnetic interference (inc. EMP) and of photonic systems (fiber optic) to radiation (ala rad induced attenuation). Pure mechanical I didn't know was potentially viable being of the 'solid state' generation, myself.
Fluidics being non-conventional fits well in Sci-Fi, and also works well for explaining the huge size of CT computers.
I never really added skills to CT, just expanded the meaning of existing ones to cover gaps - so Computer, Engineering, Electronic and Mechanical skills cover troubleshooting and repair of fluidic systems, situationally.Of course, electronic and photonic systems can be shielded and rad hardened - an area in the RW which has evolved dramatically as applications have required it since I first 'conceptualized' things for MTU.
As to viewports and windows on starships, with exceptions for lower and higher TLs, mine have them for non-automated, human run ships. I assume material science tech evolved to the function (ala 'transparium'). I consider them weak points on the hull for purposes of story telling (pun), as they provide a visibly describable non-complete failure. However, while they are weaker, they are simply thicker to compensate - and 'weld' into the hull with as good a join as any other part of the hull. Its a drama tool.<shrug>
Because they would be housed in small pop up like turrets. (see GURPS) You might get one that was active while parked. Otherwise, call the SOL hotline...
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
OK Now they are in small popup turrets and before you say they are:
But, what the heck. In that case I'll use ethyl cyanoacrylate (super glue) or any epoxy or resin. By TL15 they might even improve Duct Tape.
Something will be available.BTW, IF a goodly portion of the Bridge tonnage goes for sensors, as many on CotI have claimed, then that's a lot of "small pop up like turrets."
YTU / MTU / OTU who really knows? I don't use, or care for GURPS. I'm a CT / HG fan. Question though; is that anywhere but GURPS?
I would be worried about some wiz kid physics major in the group trying to show me how intrusion of jump space on that level would also influence neuron function. I don't have the physics to try to argue that kind of thing with the bright-minded folk that Traveller tends to attract, so I tend to steer clear of justifications that might harbor potential unexpected implications.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Carlobrand, the beautiful thing is NOBODY has the physics on that one! Still, someone will always have a contra opinion.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Very Kelly's Heroes, I think. Or Firefly.In that case I'll use ethyl cyanoacrylate (super glue) or any epoxy or resin. By TL15 they might even improve Duct Tape.
"Sir, there's a ship running. They appear to be making for the rings."
"Fools. Deploy sensors and track them."
(after a moment)
"Ummm, sir? I think we have a problem...."
"What's the problem, Sensors? Why don't I have a lock on that smuggler, yet?"
"Well, sir, the sensors seem to be stuck."
"Stuck?!? What in Omega are you prattling about Sensors? Get me a lock on that smuggler NOW!"
"I'm trying sir! I just....."
(cut to exterior shot of ship, showing strips of super-bond tape in numerous locations on the hull, zooming in to one, as it bulges slightly, yet fails to yield to the sensor attempting to deploy)
The problem isn't someone "having" the physics, but someone thinking they know enough to "have" the physics. And, Carlobrand is right - there are loads of those people in Traveller.
In which case computers for spaceships would be different from computers for starships.
Hans
LOL! Also, to make a vacuum tube computer to replace even current day super computers would make them larger than a 100 Dton scout and they would be HORRIBLY unreliable. ANYONE who has spent anytime studying those old machines knows this.
