Women gamers

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
I have to admit that I've run into the same difficulties as Bryan Gibson in getting women to be interested in playing Traveller. However, in my current game group, I have two women who are interested in more of the backroom intrigue and court politics aspect of the 3I - it ends up with a lot of role-playing in the sessions. That may be a universal angle to exploit if people wish to recruit more women into their Traveller games.

Perhaps this is due to more material being available for D&D Role playing?

I believe there is just as much opportunity for role playing in the 3I. We need to present the women with these opportunities.

Now...Where do we find the women and how do we go about presenting these opportunities?

(And I like the smash and grab adventures. It is great fun Robbing from the rich and giving to ME...LOL)

 

[Fritz_Brown]

But, Traveller lends itself so much more easily and thoroughly to gearheadedness than fantasy RPG. So, it tends to draw out the male hormones for things that go fast and go bang! Yes, narrativists abound in Traveller, but it has something you will never get in a fantasy game: spaceships (57th century cars) and guns!

And, come on - none of you guys had girlfriends. Quit fibbing!

 

[aramis]

The trick is to take the style of game needed, not the setting. Most female gamers want strong plots. Many of the one's I've known will gleefully hack and slash IF THERE IS A GOOD IN-CHARACTER reason.

Most guys will play a hack and slash for mercenary fun. Most gals won't; their need is to have the character tied in to the action.

 

[Horatius]

A friend of mine brought a young lady to a Star Wars game many years ago. Shortly thereafter, she and I started dating. She is now a full-blown rabid gamer. Shes a bigger gamer than I am. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[parmasson]

So you're saying that we're supposed to grow out of 'smash, grab, and steal...' [Frown]

Na . . . not really.

Change your style only if you are not happy with the composition of your gaming group. If ya like it manly and Kaboomy don't change a thing.
I don't intend to.

 

[Michael Schulz]

I mean, there were other layers to the latest 'smash, grab and steal' campaign I ran. It's just that that was what the party seemed to gravitate towards, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or race. It wasn't an adventure without some serious smackdown and/or removal of property. Granted they were mystery archeologists, so grave robbing was kinda part of their job...

 

[parmasson]

m'lord Cad Lad,

Each group has its own dynamic to be sure but it is difficult to deny that Traveller's following is mostly male and there must me some reason why. Over the course of nearly 30 years and half a dozen versions there have been many opportunities for two GENERATIONS of women to pick up the habit. Yet they have not. Since 1977 wage gaps have closed, women in positions of power have appeared, female senators, police officers and all the rest. Still, a venerable nay august institution that was never closed to them remains primarily male. A true mystery of the ages.

 

[jwdh71]

I imagine if you checked the statistics (if someone actually has any) on purchasing of SF or Fantasy, broken down by gender, you would likely find that women buy fantasy over science fiction, probably at a 3 to 1 margin or more. Since most gamers I know are a subset of the SF&F readership, it doesn't surprise me that women are very rare in SF gaming. In most of the gaming groups I've been associated with, almost all the women in them were brought alnog by a boyfriend or husband, very few were there due to their own interest.
This is very bad for me, since I've sworn never to get married again unless I found a woman who shared my interests.

 

[Michael Schulz]

Mistah Parmasson,

I apologize for any confusion, but I was not actually referring to a Traveller campaign, but a 'smash and grab' style campaign in another game. Sadly it's been over ten years since I played Traveller--actually I picked an old copy of TNE on ebay while I was casting about for a game to run after my other campaign was finished--and sadly, due to a recent move, it could be a while before I get a chance to play it again. I had thought this thread was also about women gamers in general.

That said, I doubt there is anything inherently unappealing to women about the setting of Traveller or the core game(s) itself. I mean, any quick trip to a sci-fi convention will show that there are more than a few female fans of sci-fi. So I don't think that's it.

I suspect it's due to a number of other factors, including the reputation for extreme gearheading, which can turn-off uninterested male players as well. Maybe it's spotty print record hasn't helped either? It is hard to talk someone into playing a game with a convoluted history and a tendency to disappear from the shelves. I mean, I think T20 is changing that, but before QLI came around, exactly which Traveller were you going to play?

 

[parmasson]

Oops, guess I didn't read close enough . . . my bad

Good point about the cons and print history.,

Until the CT reprints and T20 it seemed like more of a mystery cult and than an RPG.

Back in the late 80s we took to making a photocopy of our 1983 starter edition books because they had become quite fragile and replacements were not available at the time. I am lucky to have a gaming group again and I am verging on actually buying the T20 book but only after I collect all of the reprints (I only recently became aware they were available).

 

[Eak]

I'd say I've seen a couple posts on this thread that have it just about right. Cohesive plot, realistic characters, and role playing versus roll playing are certainly the sorts of things that women gamers look for. Though I can understand gearheading and I can get into it to a limited degree deep geek gearheading really bores me. I have no real interest in how many cubic feet of atmosphere a life-support system can process in an hour. It's more than sufficient for the GM to pull a number out of thin air and keep the game going smoothly.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet that women gamers look for, which shouldn't surprise anyone, is other women gamers. If a game group already has one woman in it's ranks it'll be easier to get more. Of course this doesn't make it any easier to get that first one, but if you can get her to join... and keep her interested, you'll have an easier time getting more.

Now... how to get women gamers interested specifically in 'Traveller'? I don't have an answer for that one. I could tell you how I became interested in Traveller, but unless you're willing to grow your women gamers from scratch I doubt it'd be much help, and it'd take far too long.

 

[parmasson]

What would it take to vat-grow a female gamer at TL-15?

4 dton displacement + 2 energy points, bonus for high TL,+9 pt suspension of disbelief screens - density of non-star trek female sci-fi fans, + plot -gearheading . . . Hmmmmm gonna need to warm up my Mod. 5 for this one.

 

[Jame]

We don't need that vat-growing, but the way we DO got still takes too long - even if you start inculation immediately...

 

[Eak]

Ok... so vat-grown gamer grrls are out of the question, and standard farm raised will take 18+ years at a minimum. So how 'do' you get more women to play traveller?

I could only make a couple suggestions outside of the standard ideas from this thread or generic 'Women Gamer' articles on the web. Any kind of google search on women gamers will turn up tons of similar discussions on different forums and blogs.

For example there have been some interesting suggestions on 'The Forge' with some unique ideas tossed about.

To start with you should probably analyze your reasons for wanting more female gamers in the first place. Is it because you're honestly interested in seeing more women in the gaming hobby or because you want a significant other? There's nothing wrong with a motivation to find an s.o. it just changes the strategy you should use a little.

In either case women gamers, despite being gamers, are still women... which means you'll need the skills to socialize with women in general. Do you have alot of friends who are women? If you do great! If not, why not?

Second... You'll probably want to find women with a pre-existing interest in either gaming, or science fiction to invite into your group. It'll just be easier that way really. Do you live in a big city? You'll probably have better luck if you do. You should probably start looking around the kinds of social functions that'll attract science fiction fans. It's been my experience that there are alot of women who are Dr. Who fans, Firefly Fans, Star Wars Fans... Try starting up a local fan club type thing. I was invited into a gaming group by a guy I met at a local Dr. Who fan club and ended up becoming a regular member of their group for two years.

Conversely you could attend a large gaming convention and vocally advertize for a social club for gamers from your area. It's all about networking and the more people you know the more likely you'll meet the kinds of women who would be interested in gaming and who might be in your area.

If all of this seems like too much effort I'm sorry. It's really the best I can think of right now, I've only been awake this morning for about an hour and I need breakfast...

I also didn't intend for this reply to end up as what it is when I started writing it so if I sound like I'm preaching... I'm sorry.

 

[parmasson]

It is not preachy and I think you are right, there are many reason for us wanting to expand our player base. I am interested because if women were involved that would double the number of possible players. That means twice as many people playing, buying supplements, that means more books, better sales than D&D, leading to the new Traveller TV series and, the five movie deal. It would be better for everybody.

 

[flykiller]

What would it take to vat-grow a female gamer at TL-15?

the stepford gamers?

 

[kafka47]

There does seem to be a disconnect between the SFRPG milieu and the fantasy milieu. Yet when you do SF cons women are there just as much as men. I don't think the gearheadness is what drives women away, as I know just as many techie women as men.

Traveller for a long time has had strong female NPCs and presence in its artwork (and never as bikini clad alien queens unlike our fantasy competitors).

Therefore, I think it boils down to rules, Traveller until late has not favoured the narrative or freeflowing format when you look at the published works. Fantasy, however, can just go on for hours without roll a single die. Perhaps, this is where we must spend more time developing. RPG culture is also possibly changing from a predominantly male culture with the rise of Manga & Anime to bring more gender parity, as in the library where I work I see just as many girls in online chatrooms discussing manga as I do guys.

Therefore, I don't think we should ignore factors like art but it also has to change some its sensibility if we are to proceed.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

It certainly needs to be more than hack and slash (or shoot and grenade) for it to have an appeal. It must have depth. It must have all the things that make a good novel or story work. It does not have to be "Beaches" set in space, but it does need to be as "real" as possible, at least in regards to motivation of character and motivation of GM for that matter. Put a female gamer (or any gamer, really) in a game where everyone is a retread of Wolverine from X-Men, and that's a game who's days are numbered. Limit the scope of a game, and narrow the appeal.

The world is changing, and so are the sexual roles of people, like it or not. Regardless of the reason, it is happening, and I for one think it's a good thing, and its about time. Some think it's the rise of the "Shero" in popular culture (like Buffy, say) and others say it comes from it no longer being economically feasible for Mom to stay home and bake cookies.

There is a move now, to get more women into the technological field through education. This takes the form of increased interest in Math and Science, and that's a good idea, too, though I don't think the idea to limit it to females only in scope is not a good one.

This new phenomena even has negative societal impacts, like how violent crime in young girls has risen 125% from what it was 20 years ago. And, I'm not talking Cat-fights, I'm talking drive-by shootings.

I think a lot of the newer games make an effort, but there needs to be more of an effort made (and in the right manner) besides indescriminate pronoun placement and just showing pictures of girls doing things. (though they usually show them in combat).

I have been lucky I guess. I have an older sister that was really into Star Trek*, A wife really into Star Trek* (and horror movies) and have generally associated myself with people that are into Science Fiction of some sort. Even my mother-in-law is a card carrying (or crysknife carrying) "Dune" nut. I asked my wife why she didn't play RPGs when younger (they even ALLOWED it at her private school, while it was banned at my public one!) and she said:

"The boys told me that girls don't play role-playing games."

Which was the boys loss, as I have seen my wife go toe-to-toe (Role-playing wise) with experienced gamers, and they walk away from the session convinced that she has played for as long as I have. This made the game that much better, as everyone was motivated to be on thier toes. Highly enjoyable!

Also, I have the good fortune to have a female players in many online games, and I have gotten used to expecting some of the finest characterization I have ever seen, FTF or online. I'm not saying that women are better at it, but they are an unrealized asset.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

"Therefore, I think it boils down to rules, Traveller until late has not favoured the narrative or freeflowing format when you look at the published works. Fantasy, however, can just go on for hours without roll a single die."

With respect, rubish. This has *nothing* to do with the rules or genre, and everything to do with the GM and players.

The longest, most involved campaign I've played in was Aftermath, with a female GM. The longest, most involved campaign I've run was Traveller, with, at different times, 2 female players. Both have had times when there was lots of character stuff, and other times when it was all dice-rolling.

The least-involved, most hack'n'slash games have probably been D&D, with a female GM.

 

[Jame]

In that case I know that there are two reasons for me to want such. (Curious? Use the private messages.)

And how to do it? I have no idea. If I did I'd likely have done it.