Yet, more on Container ships...

[bookwyrm]

My thoughts at the time were a number of SDB's on 2-3 month deployments patrolling the gas giants and any other settled planets/moons/belts in the system, the same number undergoing refitting & maintenance, and another of the same number undergoing training and ready for deployment around the Mainworld when needed.

Captain & Mate split the shifts, 2 Pilots, Navigators, Sensors, Engineers, 1 Medic, Mess Cook, 4 Ships Troops for boarding & security, 3 Gunners (1 for triple lasers and 2 taking turns triple missile launcher & ordinance man).

I did think of having a SDB base around the gas giant closest to the Mainworld and any other important settlements in the system, but having patrolling SDB's were my priority.

The SDB's are for pirate suppression, security, rescue, and letting the settlements know that they haven't been forgotten by the Mainworld.

Something like this.

 

[TamsinP]

Actually this probably covers a lot of the bottom end of Adventure Size Class as well.

But you are right smaller, lower endurance vessels is probably the scope.

that range covers the Type S, Type J and X-Boat. There aren't many other 100 dTon starships that I can think of.

 

[infojunky]

that range covers the Type S, Type J and X-Boat. There aren't many other 100 dTon starships that I can think of.

Odd thought just occurred to me. Traveller Container ships are more akin to ro-ro ships than container ships do to the described cargo handling from the March Harrier.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Actually this probably covers a lot of the bottom end of Adventure Size Class as well.

But you are right smaller, lower endurance vessels is probably the scope.

LBB2.81 is geared towards commercial merchant shipping, with a dabbling in space combat features.
Most commercial starships are going to be "short haul" through normal space affairs, mainly doing starport to jump point transits in normal space and remarkably little else. Under such circumstances, when a starship isn't going to be doing much (if any) interplanetary travel you can get by (and get away with) only a single crew standing watch for the limited durations of orbital transfers from jump point to starport and back again.

It's when you start needing to maneuver for weeks/months at a stretch without relief that having a 2-4x crew complement so as to set up watch rotations stars becoming more important and makes more sense.

 

[warwizard]

Now I have a TL 15 designed 100 dt external cargo jump tug mounts J-6 and M-1 (only the base hull has to meet the M-1 standard RAW) The (TNE,T4 FF&S rules say that this tug can do J-1 if it has no more than 210 Dt of externally mountable cargo of armor value 10 instead of armor value 20 for starship hulls, add in a 40 DT drop tank, and the crew can be ONE person.) Calculation: J6 for 100 Dt = 7 DT for jump drive, 7 DT is J1 for 350 Dt. Maneuver drive 1 (Grav 1 Dt 100/350 g's) (HePlar varies by mass of ship) power plant 6 DT ( might be a custom built TL 15 for perhaps 6 MW/m3), one stateroom, level 6 computer, jump governor 6 DT internal PP fuel hull not streamlined, spherical, HePlar fuel 1 Dt. There is an excess of perhaps 2-3 Dt of fuel in the drop tank that can be transferred to either the power plant or HePlar tanks if needed.
This ship normally retains the drop tank which has been upgraded to armor 10 instead of the armor 5. Grapples are internal to the base hull for the drop tank. The cargo modules are bolted on and do not require grapples. the external cargo is not provided with atmosphere, acceleration compsentation or internal grav, and as such any cargo taken aboard need to be vacuum safe containerized, or bulk vacuum safe materials. The ship does not carry fuel purifiers and relies on lighters to deliver fuel to it. Normal operation is to retain the cargo and dock at high port near the jump point and conduct all fuel and cargo operations there. if needed the two cargo tanks can be demounted and the ship perform J-3 twice if retaining the drop tank. Internal jump fuel is sufficient for a single J-1 for 100 Dt hull only and is normally retained. There is provision for internal cargo for cargos that need environmental support, exactly how much is dependant on choice of maneuver drive options, or increasing internal j-fuel tankage to 14 Dt to support a third J-3.
The 210 Dt allowance on the external cargo allows for 5 Dt allocated to hull + a small reaction maneuvering system on each of the two 105 Dt cargo modules.

Maximum jump performance when jetisioning the drop tank (38 Dt external fuel + 12 Dt internal fuel)= J-5 one time 2 tons fuel remain.
Maximum distance performance while retaining the drop tank (38 Dt external fuel + 4 Dt internal fuel)= J-3 10 tons fuel remain.
Other performance points 105 Dt external cargo + drop tank (49 Dt jump fuel), one J-2, 3 DT fuel remain.
105 Dt external cargo, jump tanks jettisioned 41 Dt of fuel used one J-2 11 Dt fuel remaining, enough for the ship to demount the cargo and do J-1.

If one can find 8 DT somewhere inside to increase internal jump fuel to 22 DT a single J-6 can be done when jettisioning the drop tank.

Disclaimer: This is all from memory my books are still in storage.

 

[Enoki]

The J-drive tug can also disconnect from the "barge" which can be hauled in-system by a dedicated M-drive tug. IIRC an M-drive tug could pull multiple "barges" around.

Why bother with a 'tug?' Just make the barge powered--many are--and it does everything itself. You make one that is basically a flat platform with the machinery under the loading surface. The front of it is streamlined to allow use in an atmosphere and houses a cabin for the crew (1 or more), along with a control booth and folding crane that fits into a slot on one side or along the rear of the cabin.

That way, the barge can haul down say 16 to 24 containers stacked two deep on it, maybe 2 to 4 containers wide, and these can be loaded and unloaded using the crane. It's an all-in-one delivery system meaning your cargo ship really doesn't need streamlining (eg., is a lot cheaper to build). All it has to have is a hangar bay big enough to hold the barge and maybe some other small craft.

You can operate on any sort of planet with any sort of starport--or nonexistent starport. That makes you ship very suitable for use as a feeder to haul to planets that are economically marginal, or to be a feeder for a large freighter when necessary.

 

[coliver988]

 

[Condottiere]

Or, the side.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Some Official OTU Answers... Argue amongst yourselves. I'm just paraphrasing the new material.
MgT2e's Starship Operators Manual has answers on your cargo containers. A full 12 page chapter just on cargo.
The term "tons" of cargo is meant to mean the displacement tonnage your cargo takes up within containers, not the displacement of the cargo itself. Cargo is placed in standardized the cargo containers taking up specific displacements. Cargo containers are coded with 3 codes XXYY/N XX=standardised size YY="Mission" qualities of the container (cargo warnings or environmental support needed/provided) N=TL of container.
You are generally not offered larger than .5dTon containers unless your ship was a designed and designated Merchant Class Ship Type. (Type S need not bother). 4F and 4E can pass thru iris valves, the others cannot. All containers have inset/sunken wheels on the bottom and holes on the top to allow stacking of containers. Only one side opens, other sides may have flush power/environment couplings monitors and controls. Lots of mission codes.
Sizes
4F 1x1x1 meter cubes
4E (.5dT) 3 x 2.25 x 2 meter rectangles
4D (1dT) 3 x 3 x 3 meter cubes
4C (2dT) 3 x 3 x 6 meter rectangles
4B (4dT) 3 x 3 x 9 meter rectangles
4A (8dT) 3 x 3 x 12 meter rectangles
Example: a 4A92/15 is a minor noble's stateroom: an 8 ton (4A), full quality stateroom environment hooked up to main ship power and environment (92) built at TL15

 

[WizWom]

Yes, but the standard container is 3.85 dTons in Traveller. As per the writeup for the March Harrier.

I of course rounded to 4 dTons. Note do my best to keep things in Traveller Terms.

This is a general discussion area, Mongoose does what they do; try to use the oldest source you can.
CT LLB Supplement 7, Traders and Gunboats shows a 4 dTon container spec'd as 3.85 tons, One expects the discount off 4 is to provide a little slop for loading & coupling (a coupler usually adds a couple inches each dimension)

I would expect a rail clip system in the ceilings, with the crew attaching just inside the door, then rolling to the load position.

 

[WizWom]

Some Official OTU Answers... Argue amongst yourselves. I'm just paraphrasing the new material.
MgT2e's Starship Operators Manual has answers on your cargo containers. A full 12 page chapter just on cargo.
The term "tons" of cargo is meant to mean the displacement tonnage your cargo takes up within containers, not the displacement of the cargo itself. Cargo is placed in standardized the cargo containers taking up specific displacements. Cargo containers are coded with 3 codes XXYY/N XX=standardised size YY="Mission" qualities of the container (cargo warnings or environmental support needed/provided) N=TL of container.
You are generally not offered larger than .5dTon containers unless your ship was a designed and designated Merchant Class Ship Type. (Type S need not bother). 4F and 4E can pass thru iris valves, the others cannot. All containers have inset/sunken wheels on the bottom and holes on the top to allow stacking of containers. Only one side opens, other sides may have flush power/environment couplings monitors and controls. Lots of mission codes.
Sizes
4F 1x1x1 meter cubes
4E (.5dT) 3 x 2.25 x 2 meter rectangles
4D (1dT) 3 x 3 x 3 meter cubes
4C (2dT) 3 x 3 x 6 meter rectangles
4B (4dT) 3 x 3 x 9 meter rectangles
4A (8dT) 3 x 3 x 12 meter rectangles
Example: a 4A92/15 is a minor noble's stateroom: an 8 ton (4A), full quality stateroom environment hooked up to main ship power and environment (92) built at TL15

If that's straight out of mongoose, it's wrong. A dTon is 1.5 x 3 x 3m; so 4D is 2 ton, C is 4, B is 6 and A is 8 ton. 3 x 2.25 x 2 is 13.5 m^3, 1 ton.
1 m^3 is 1/13th a ton, but I would expect crates to be a bit smaller than 0.75m each dimension (1/32 ton) so they stack into the 1.5m grid.

 

[TamsinP]

If that's straight out of mongoose, it's wrong. A dTon is 1.5 x 3 x 3m; so 4D is 2 ton, C is 4, B is 6 and A is 8 ton. 3 x 2.25 x 2 is 13.5 m^3, 1 ton.
1 m^3 is 1/13th a ton, but I would expect crates to be a bit smaller than 0.75m each dimension (1/32 ton) so they stack into the 1.5m grid.

That does depend on the version of Traveller. In CT it was specified as the volume of 1000kg of liquid hydrogen, which is just over 14 m^3. I don't recall if/how it was defined in MT; in MgT2e High Guard 2022 it states that 1 dTon is the volume of 1 tonne (100kg) of liquid hydrogen, about 14 m^3.
I don't have other versions of Traveller, so can't comment on the definition in those.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

If that's straight out of mongoose, it's wrong. A dTon is 1.5 x 3 x 3m; so 4D is 2 ton, C is 4, B is 6 and A is 8 ton. 3 x 2.25 x 2 is 13.5 m^3, 1 ton.
1 m^3 is 1/13th a ton, but I would expect crates to be a bit smaller than 0.75m each dimension (1/32 ton) so they stack into the 1.5m grid.

You are correct, sir! and so is Mongoose. I mistyped. Sorry. The CORRECTED table is:
Sizes
4F 1x1x1 meter cubes (approx. 0.074 dTons)
4E (1dT) 3 x 2.25 x 2 meter rectangles
4D (2dT) 3 x 3 x 3 meter cubes
4C (4dT) 3 x 3 x 6 meter rectangles
4B (6dT) 3 x 3 x 9 meter rectangles
4A (8dT) 3 x 3 x 12 meter rectangles
But otherwise directly from MgT2e Starship Operator's Manual "Cargo and Docking Systems" Chapter pp. 42-52
Container Mission codes on p.46
Container Sizes on p.47

 

[WizWom]

That does depend on the version of Traveller. In CT it was specified as the volume of 1000kg of liquid hydrogen, which is just over 14 m^3. I don't recall if/how it was defined in MT; in MgT2e High Guard 2022 it states that 1 dTon is the volume of 1 tonne (100kg) of liquid hydrogen, about 14 m^3.
I don't have other versions of Traveller, so can't comment on the definition in those.

Oddly, 3m x 3m x 6m is 3.78 tons of liquid hydrogen at 0.07 g/cc; but 3.85 times 14.
So, yes, you have located why they called it a 3.85 ton container.

So MGT calling the same 3.85 is sort of odd, since there it is exactly 4 "standard displacement tons"

 

[infojunky]

I would expect a rail clip system in the ceilings, with the crew attaching just inside the door, then rolling to the load position.

In the description they use the internal grav system to manipulate cargo.