MGT Only: 300-ton stretched refitted Free Trader
- Thread starter Redcap
- Start date
That it is. I was hoping there would at least be something you could look over and maybe borrow.
Idley curioous, what would the figure to go for, cargo-wise, if I up this to a 400 ton design? 150dT? more?
For comparison, from MgT HG2e, pp 160, the stats for the book 400-ton subsidised merchant...
This devoted literally 50.25% to cargo, with a LOT of passenger space. Now, granted, the Type R is only M-1/J-1, and I'm designing for M-2/J-2, with fewer passengers, but even so, would a third of the ship to cargo be, ball park/gut feeling, too little for a Type AP Subsidised Frontier Trader?
For comparison, from MgT HG2e, pp 160, the stats for the book 400-ton subsidised merchant...
Code:
TL12 Subsidised Merchant
Item Description Tons Cost (MCr)
Hull 400 tons, Streamlined - 24
Armour Armour: 0 - -
M-Drive Thrust 1 4 8
J-Drive Jump-1 15 22.5
Power Plant Fusion, Power 135 9 9
Fuel Tanks 4 weeks operation, J-1 41 -
Bridge - 20 2
Computer Computer 5 - 0.03
Sensors Civilian Grade 1 3
Weapons - - -
Systems Fuel Scoop - -
Fuel Processors (20/tons a day) 1 0.05
Docking Space (20 tons) 22 5.5
Launch - 5.607
Staterooms Standard x 19 76 9.5
Software Low Berths x 9 4.5 0.45
Jump Control/1 - 0.1
Library - -
Manoeuvre/0 - -
Common Areas - 5.5 0.55
Cargo - 201 -This devoted literally 50.25% to cargo, with a LOT of passenger space. Now, granted, the Type R is only M-1/J-1, and I'm designing for M-2/J-2, with fewer passengers, but even so, would a third of the ship to cargo be, ball park/gut feeling, too little for a Type AP Subsidised Frontier Trader?
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I whipped up a Q&D 400 dTon, jump2 design for you to use as a base of comparison.
It's the Type-R from TTA with as few differences as possible. Those differences are: jump2, fuel for two parsecs, a Model 2 computer, 4 turret sockets instead of 2, and the extra engineer the drives require.
There are still 13 staterooms to split between the crew and pax, 9 low berths, and a 20 dTon launch.
By way of contrast, my "bare bones" TL11, 300 dTon, jump2 design had 15 staterooms, 12 low berths, no launch, an air/raft, and 107 tons of cargo. Going "up" 100 tons gives you the launch and over 50 more dTons of cargo at the same performance.
Hope this helps.
It's the Type-R from TTA with as few differences as possible. Those differences are: jump2, fuel for two parsecs, a Model 2 computer, 4 turret sockets instead of 2, and the extra engineer the drives require.
There are still 13 staterooms to split between the crew and pax, 9 low berths, and a 20 dTon launch.
By way of contrast, my "bare bones" TL11, 300 dTon, jump2 design had 15 staterooms, 12 low berths, no launch, an air/raft, and 107 tons of cargo. Going "up" 100 tons gives you the launch and over 50 more dTons of cargo at the same performance.
Hope this helps.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
With armour and arms you gain less space, but still a lot.
The ship I posted earlier had 75 dT cargo @ 300 dT, it would have 134 dT cargo @ 400 dT (but with 4 hardpoints a 6 man crew is iffy, add another gunner and we are down to 130 dT cargo). Price goes up from MCr 98.2 to MCr 114.5. Income potential doubles.
On the other hand you will fill it less often from the cargo tables.
The ship I posted earlier had 75 dT cargo @ 300 dT, it would have 134 dT cargo @ 400 dT (but with 4 hardpoints a 6 man crew is iffy, add another gunner and we are down to 130 dT cargo). Price goes up from MCr 98.2 to MCr 114.5. Income potential doubles.
On the other hand you will fill it less often from the cargo tables.
becomes
Code:
Jumps / Year Cost / Jump kCr Revenue / Jump kCr
25 Mortgage 206,2 High 120,0
Maintenance 4,1 Mid 0,0
Fuel 8,1 Low 13,0
Life Support 15,8 Cargo 214,4
Salaries 10,1
Berthing, average 1,8
246,0 347,4
Potential 101,4
Year MCr 2,5
I suggest a quick look at the Freight and Passenger tables for the rule system of choice would be a good place to start looking for the balance between cargo and passengers.
I would personally start with the design of a stripped down freight-only version as my base design starting point and see how you could upgrade that for a target market.
I would personally start with the design of a stripped down freight-only version as my base design starting point and see how you could upgrade that for a target market.
Yeah; this is likely why there aren't too many commercial ships in the 300dT range (why am I voicing that like Arnie? "A traydah in da treehunnet-dee-tee range"
)That's not a bad idea (stripped down version first), that. Thanks
Whoops, thought I'd commented on this earlier, but apparently not - yeah, that's handy, thanks
It's looking more like a 400dT type AP Sub Trader, instead of a 300dT one, which is irritating, but I can get over that (Big of me, that, isn't it
) if this does the job.I'll mess about with the CT book 5 (HG) process first (I've software for that, makes things a darn sight easier to change things on the fly), and if that works, I'll move up to the MgT spreadsheet, and see what I can develop. More shortly.
By the way, where do those figures come from (potential etc), and how did you arrive at them?
yeah, that's handy, thanks
Hope it's of some help. Like AT suggested, I thought having a "stripped down" version to run through the freight and pax tables first could give you some idea where and how you can customize and upgrade.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Code:
Jumps / Year Cost / Jump kCr Revenue / Jump kCr
25 Mortgage 206,2 High 120,0
Maintenance 4,1 Mid 0,0
Fuel 8,1 Low 13,0
Life Support 15,8 Cargo 214,4
Salaries 10,1
Berthing, average 1,8
246,0 347,4
Potential 101,4
Year MCr 2,5Year is Potential Income × "Jumps / Year".
Revenue is based on a full ship.
Mortgage is based on standard design (10% discount). A Year is 12 months.
OK, first three versions using High Guard Shipyard v1.314 for CT.
These are 400dT hulls, one bare of everything, one with turrets, one with turrets and armour. The staterooms are automatically generated, I'll fix that on the next run through (you can do them manually, but it saves time when prototyping to let the package determine them), but it's interesting to see how the cargo space varies with armour, let alone crew/passenger levels, staterooms, and low berths.
Oh, and I'm not ready to play with the MgT spreadsheet on this yet; once I've nailed down the CT HG design, yeah, as I'll have a better handle on what's needed and not needed, but for now, have a look, and as usual, comments/observations/suggestions are welcome.
These are 400dT hulls, one bare of everything, one with turrets, one with turrets and armour. The staterooms are automatically generated, I'll fix that on the next run through (you can do them manually, but it saves time when prototyping to let the package determine them), but it's interesting to see how the cargo space varies with armour, let alone crew/passenger levels, staterooms, and low berths.
Oh, and I'm not ready to play with the MgT spreadsheet on this yet; once I've nailed down the CT HG design, yeah, as I'll have a better handle on what's needed and not needed, but for now, have a look, and as usual, comments/observations/suggestions are welcome
.Cool. Did a spreadsheet do this (if so, which one?), or did you work it up yourself?
OK, final CT Book 2 design for the 400-dT Type AP Frontier Trader
The passengers really eat into the cargo space, but that's not much of a surprise.
I decided that armour wouldn't be fitted, as it eats way too much available space.
I've only fitted two turrets, which reduces the required crewing for them. There are two hardpoints left for later refits, should they be required.
The program makes no allowance for double-hatting the crew members, and as a result, the automated listing for the crew is incorrect, as I'm double-hatting a couple of them, as follows:
CREW
Pilot,
Navigator,
Chief Engineer,
Second Engineer,
Medic,
Steward / Gunner,
Boat Pilot / Gunner.
That's a total of seven crew, all with their own staterooms, plus four high and four mid (with their own staterooms, eight in total), and ten low (each with their own cryotube, no false economy here!), passengers.
That leaves exactly 150dT of cargo space.
Comments/observations/suggestions, if you would be so kind Once those are in, I'll get on with working up the MgT HG version
Code:
Ship: Subsidised Frontier Trader
Class: TBD
Type: AP
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 13
USP
AP-4122221-030000-20002-0 MCr 197.670 400 Tons
Bat Bear 2 2 2 Crew: 9
Bat 2 2 2 TL: 13
Cargo: 150 Passengers: 8 Crew Sections: 1 of 9 Low: 10 Fuel: 88 EP: 8 Agility: 1
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Launch
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification
Architects Fee: MCr 1.837 Cost in Quantity: MCr 160.936
Detailed Description
(High Guard Design)
HULL
400.000 tons standard, 5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration
CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, Steward, Medic, 2 Gunners, 1 Flight Crew
ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 2G Manuever, Power plant-2, 8.000 EP, Agility 1
AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/2 Computer
HARDPOINTS
2 Hardpoints
ARMAMENT
2 Triple Mixed Turrets each with: 1 Beam Laser (Factor-2), 1 Missile Rack (Factor-2).
DEFENCES
1 Sandcaster in each Mixed Turret, organised into 2 Batteries (Factor-3)
CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Launch (Crew of 1, Cost of MCr 14.000)
FUEL
88 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant
MISCELLANEOUS
15 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 4 High Passengers, 4 Middle Passengers, 10 Low Passengers, 150 Tons Cargo
USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None
COST
MCr 185.507 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 1.837), MCr 146.936 in Quantity, plus MCr 14.000 of Carried Craft (Hardpoints and Turrets charged)
CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity
COMMENTS
TBD Class AP
HULL
Hull: 0.000 Td; MCr 48.000
Armour Factor-0: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
ENGINEERING
M-Drive Factor-2: 20.000 Td; MCr 14.000
J-Drive Factor-2: 12.000 Td; MCr 48.000
P-Plant Factor-2: 16.000 Td; MCr 48.000; +8.000 EP
FUEL
P-Fuel: 8.000 Td; MCr 0,000
J-Fuel: 80.000 Td; MCr 0.000
Scoops: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.400
Purification: 5.000 Td; MCr 0.030
L-Hyd Drop Tanks: 0.000 Td; MCr 0.000
AVIONICS
Bridge: 20.000 Td; MCr 2.000
Computer Model/2: 2.000 Td; MCr 9.000; -0 EP
WEAPONRY
2 x Mixed Turrets: 2.000 Td; MCr 6.200
SCREENS
CRAFT
1 x Ship's Launch: 20.000Td; MCr 0.040; Cost of craft: MCr 14.000
ACCOMODATIONS
15.0 x Staterooms: 60.000 Td; MCr 7.500
10 x Low Berths: 5.000 Td; MCr 0.500
Cargo: 150.000 Td; MCr 0.000
USER DEFINED
Designed using High Guard Shipyard v1.314The passengers really eat into the cargo space, but that's not much of a surprise.
I decided that armour wouldn't be fitted, as it eats way too much available space.
I've only fitted two turrets, which reduces the required crewing for them. There are two hardpoints left for later refits, should they be required.
The program makes no allowance for double-hatting the crew members, and as a result, the automated listing for the crew is incorrect, as I'm double-hatting a couple of them, as follows:
CREW
Pilot,
Navigator,
Chief Engineer,
Second Engineer,
Medic,
Steward / Gunner,
Boat Pilot / Gunner.
That's a total of seven crew, all with their own staterooms, plus four high and four mid (with their own staterooms, eight in total), and ten low (each with their own cryotube, no false economy here!), passengers.
That leaves exactly 150dT of cargo space.
Comments/observations/suggestions, if you would be so kind
Once those are in, I'll get on with working up the MgT HG version
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kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I would always go stripped down for the initial build and add on higher computer models or weapons or small craft if they are not needed initially. No need to pay for the add-ons twice, which is what happens with mortgages.
Gives a nice middling goal to shoot for, so to speak.
Gives a nice middling goal to shoot for, so to speak.
Crap. Someone better check me on this, I think it's nonviable...
Waitaminit.
This is for a SUBSIDISED trader, so no mortgage payments. Oh, pooh. Still nonviable. Deficit is still Cr 964,825 without mortgage payments.
Code:
Outgoings Per month
Item Book Monthly Cost Actual Cost
=======================================================================
Mortgage Varies on ship Cr 823,625
Life Support Cr1000 per stateroom, Cr 15,000
Cr3000 for double occupancy, .
Cr100 per low berth, Cr 1,000
Cr1000 per person Cr 25,000
Fuel Cr500 per refined ton, Cr 88,000
Cr100 per unrefined ton Cr 16,800
Repairs and Maintenance 0.1% of purchase price,
divided by 12 Cr 1,482,525
Salary: Pilot Cr6000 Cr 6,000
Salary: Astrogator Cr5000 Cr 5,000
Salary: Engineer Cr4000 Cr 4,000
Salary: Second Engineer - Cr 3,500
Salary: Medic Cr3000 Cr 3,000
Salary: Boat Pilot / Gunner - Cr 2,500
Salary: Steward Cr2000 -
Salary: Steward / Gunner - Cr 2,500
Salary: Gunner Cr1000 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total outgoings/month Cr 2,462,450
=======================================================================
Full capacity/Occupancy revenue per month:
150 dT cargo Cr 1,600 / J-2 Cr 480,000
4 x High pax Cr 12,000 / J-2 Cr 96,000
4 x Mid Pax Cr 9,000 / J-2 Cr 72,000
10 x Low Pax Cr 1,300 / J-2 Cr 26,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Total revenue incoming / month Cr 674,000
=======================================================================
DEFICIT: Cr 1,788,450
* One months income/outgoings based on two jump-2 per standard month
using refined fuel only.Waitaminit.
This is for a SUBSIDISED trader, so no mortgage payments. Oh, pooh. Still nonviable. Deficit is still Cr 964,825 without mortgage payments.
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