Additional CPU programs for CT
- Thread starter Maladominus
- Start date
I agree that the rules are laughable if you know the derivation and focus on the tapes or TLs, but... you probably wouldn't have trusted your Kaypro-II to manage the fusion reactor power levels while aiming and firing the new laser you installed, (requiring the aiming program to recalibrate), and while tweaking your salvaged grav-drives in a truly random way while your ship is rocking from a laser explosion...
And you can't just turn a Model/1 off, count to ten, and reboot it while you're in mid-jump.
Getting a computer system to do a variety of time-critical, life-or-death chores in a sometimes-rugged physical environment with zero defect tolerance and extremely broad acceptance of third party equipment isn't just Hard, it's like five kinds of Hard. It takes up a lot of physical space and costs a lot of money.
Now it's true that computer technology may progress beyond all recognition in the next 30 years, but I think it's a mistake now to laugh at the CT computer rules as completely absurd and outmoded. They're sort of right for the wrong reasons, IMHO.
I agree that the rules are laughable if you know the derivation and focus on the tapes or TLs, but... you probably wouldn't have trusted your Kaypro-II to manage the fusion reactor power levels while aiming and firing the new laser you installed, (requiring the aiming program to recalibrate), and while tweaking your salvaged grav-drives in a truly random way while your ship is rocking from a laser explosion...
And you can't just turn a Model/1 off, count to ten, and reboot it while you're in mid-jump.
Getting a computer system to do a variety of time-critical, life-or-death chores in a sometimes-rugged physical environment with zero defect tolerance and extremely broad acceptance of third party equipment isn't just Hard, it's like five kinds of Hard. It takes up a lot of physical space and costs a lot of money.
Now it's true that computer technology may progress beyond all recognition in the next 30 years, but I think it's a mistake now to laugh at the CT computer rules as completely absurd and outmoded. They're sort of right for the wrong reasons, IMHO.
I wouln't laugh at them; I'd just adapt them to higher-tech explanations. In 1977 it was a big box with magnetic-tapes; now its a distributed network with various nodes and backups, including the actual computer, data-storage, communications, avionics and sensors, as well as sub-computers running life-support and similar matters.
By the way, how big is the computer running an Aircraft Carrier's fission plant IRL?
I wouln't laugh at them; I'd just adapt them to higher-tech explanations. In 1977 it was a big box with magnetic-tapes; now its a distributed network with various nodes and backups, including the actual computer, data-storage, communications, avionics and sensors, as well as sub-computers running life-support and similar matters.
By the way, how big is the computer running an Aircraft Carrier's fission plant IRL?
I've come up with all sorts of rationalizations in the past, and I've finally just settled into it as it is. Computers are big not only because what they control is super-complex, but also because the computers themselves are super-robust. Remember that in Book 2 combat, the same hit that will destroy your power plant, render it totally inoperable, will only add a -1 to your computer's roll to function properly.
As for the tapes, well. I waver from game to game. Sometimes I call 'em Charts, and ignore the medium. Sometimes they're disks and the like.
And sometimes I just like the image of someone having to trot up there to the bridge and slot a cassette, or thread in a reel of tape. It's part of the game-feel to me.
As for the tapes, well. I waver from game to game. Sometimes I call 'em Charts, and ignore the medium. Sometimes they're disks and the like.
And sometimes I just like the image of someone having to trot up there to the bridge and slot a cassette, or thread in a reel of tape. It's part of the game-feel to me.
I've come up with all sorts of rationalizations in the past, and I've finally just settled into it as it is. Computers are big not only because what they control is super-complex, but also because the computers themselves are super-robust. Remember that in Book 2 combat, the same hit that will destroy your power plant, render it totally inoperable, will only add a -1 to your computer's roll to function properly.
As for the tapes, well. I waver from game to game. Sometimes I call 'em Charts, and ignore the medium. Sometimes they're disks and the like.
And sometimes I just like the image of someone having to trot up there to the bridge and slot a cassette, or thread in a reel of tape. It's part of the game-feel to me.
As for the tapes, well. I waver from game to game. Sometimes I call 'em Charts, and ignore the medium. Sometimes they're disks and the like.
And sometimes I just like the image of someone having to trot up there to the bridge and slot a cassette, or thread in a reel of tape. It's part of the game-feel to me.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...you do have a strong point with the word "cassette tapes".
(snippage of imaginitive descriptions)
</font>[/QUOTE]OK, my memory keeps telling me that the term used wasn't "cassette tapes" but "cartridges", two very different things. In our games it was always a cartridge, never a cassette tape, and that cartridge was conviently a black box item. We didn't need to know too much about the inner workings. It could have even been a multi-track endless loop of ferric oxide deposits on a petrochemical base ribbon* but I always saw it more as a solid state sort of device, like a stand-alone processor dedicated to one task.
* aka an 8-track
Anyway, back to this "cassette tape" rant
Anyway, back to the topic...
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
...you do have a strong point with the word "cassette tapes".
(snippage of imaginitive descriptions)
</font>[/QUOTE]OK, my memory keeps telling me that the term used wasn't "cassette tapes" but "cartridges", two very different things. In our games it was always a cartridge, never a cassette tape, and that cartridge was conviently a black box item. We didn't need to know too much about the inner workings. It could have even been a multi-track endless loop of ferric oxide deposits on a petrochemical base ribbon* but I always saw it more as a solid state sort of device, like a stand-alone processor dedicated to one task.
* aka an 8-track
Anyway, back to this "cassette tape" rant
Anyway, back to the topic...
I have no problem at all with a horrifically expensive jumpchart being produced on such an ephemeral medium. IMTU, a jump chart is only safely useable for a few days, even were it engraved in a block of stainless steel - they're too time sensitive. I consider the "self-erasing" aspect to be at least partially a failsafe, to prevent the use of out-of-date and therefore unsafe charts. The price is a factor of the expertise and infrastructure in producing them, and their necessity. (they'd be worth cr10,000 even if they could be printed out on a roll of toilet paper.)
I have no problem at all with a horrifically expensive jumpchart being produced on such an ephemeral medium. IMTU, a jump chart is only safely useable for a few days, even were it engraved in a block of stainless steel - they're too time sensitive. I consider the "self-erasing" aspect to be at least partially a failsafe, to prevent the use of out-of-date and therefore unsafe charts. The price is a factor of the expertise and infrastructure in producing them, and their necessity. (they'd be worth cr10,000 even if they could be printed out on a roll of toilet paper.)
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
Snipped Screenshot.
Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society.
Article name = Starship Malfunctions
Notice: the word used is DESTINATION TAPE
Article by: Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman... busted! Caught in the act, using the word "tape", you two hippies!!! Guilty as charged!
p.s. --- I'm just being facetious with the cassette tape thing. Even tho Loren and MWM have apparently used such terminology in the past, it's not really a big deal, and I still have tons of respect for both of them.
Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society.
Article name = Starship Malfunctions
Notice: the word used is DESTINATION TAPE
Article by: Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman... busted! Caught in the act, using the word "tape", you two hippies!!! Guilty as charged!
p.s. --- I'm just being facetious with the cassette tape thing. Even tho Loren and MWM have apparently used such terminology in the past, it's not really a big deal, and I still have tons of respect for both of them.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
Snipped Screenshot.
Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society.
Article name = Starship Malfunctions
Notice: the word used is DESTINATION TAPE
Article by: Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman... busted! Caught in the act, using the word "tape", you two hippies!!! Guilty as charged!
p.s. --- I'm just being facetious with the cassette tape thing. Even tho Loren and MWM have apparently used such terminology in the past, it's not really a big deal, and I still have tons of respect for both of them.
Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society.
Article name = Starship Malfunctions
Notice: the word used is DESTINATION TAPE
Article by: Marc Miller, Loren Wiseman... busted! Caught in the act, using the word "tape", you two hippies!!! Guilty as charged!
p.s. --- I'm just being facetious with the cassette tape thing. Even tho Loren and MWM have apparently used such terminology in the past, it's not really a big deal, and I still have tons of respect for both of them.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
P.P.S. ---- that article on Engineering and Malfunctions is one of the best JTAS articles for CT that goes into some detail beyond Book 2 starship malfunctions/repairs etc.
In fact, in my campaign, I expect all the player-engineers in my game to know that article by memory, and to know its tables. The content in that article is one of those things that "should have been included in Book 2, but wasn't".
In fact, in my campaign, I expect all the player-engineers in my game to know that article by memory, and to know its tables. The content in that article is one of those things that "should have been included in Book 2, but wasn't".
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
P.P.S. ---- that article on Engineering and Malfunctions is one of the best JTAS articles for CT that goes into some detail beyond Book 2 starship malfunctions/repairs etc.
In fact, in my campaign, I expect all the player-engineers in my game to know that article by memory, and to know its tables. The content in that article is one of those things that "should have been included in Book 2, but wasn't".
In fact, in my campaign, I expect all the player-engineers in my game to know that article by memory, and to know its tables. The content in that article is one of those things that "should have been included in Book 2, but wasn't".
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Agreed on the nature of the data Imperium Festerium, it's not even days in MTU. For me it's a very narrow window, time and position, outside of which you have an increasing chance of misjump, so I don't bother to make them self-erasing. It's use at your own risk, we only guarantee it to work when used properly at this precise time from these precise cooridinates for a jump of this range to this system. The Navigate program will attempt to adjust the Plot if used outside the safe parameters but it's not always going to be able to compensate. My TU isn't too concerned with failsafe issues, it's very much a mature society where ultimately you are responsible for yourself.
My problem is with the cost as listed for one reason. If I can't afford a Generate program at Cr800,000 there's no way I can afford to throw money away on single use Plots at Cr10,000 per while trying to make ship payments. In a few years the Generate program is paying for itself not even factoring all the nuisance issues of the single use Plots. Things like having to find one at every system you stop at, especially since IMTU they are only available at class C or better starports. I figure the price needs to come down by a factor of 10 to make them a viable option. Otherwise I'll just add a Generate program to my ship loan and only need to pay about Cr1,600 per trip (so J1 is cheaper for Plots, J2 and up is cheaper for Generate, at MTU Cr1,000 per J) to generate my own jump plots, to and from anywhere and anywhen. Unless of course part of the bank's loan requirement is to limit me to where I can operate (so they can keep track of their property) and they won't allow a Generate program and only allow use of Plot programs for certain sytems. Skips are not common in MTU for this reason alone, only very trusted ship purchasers get a Generate program. Oh sure, you might be able to hack your own Generate program or buy a bootleg Plot, and bypass the security lockouts* but that won't be easy.
* All commercial ship loans, and some others, insist on a bank installed tamper proof and "hard-wired" Anti-Hijack program as part of the standard loadout. It's not just to protect the ship owner of course. Try to plot an unauthorized jump (including unsafe jumps) and the computer will shut down the first time it enters a class C or better system and start calling for assistance. Again, this is to limit the losses from skipping.
My problem is with the cost as listed for one reason. If I can't afford a Generate program at Cr800,000 there's no way I can afford to throw money away on single use Plots at Cr10,000 per while trying to make ship payments. In a few years the Generate program is paying for itself not even factoring all the nuisance issues of the single use Plots. Things like having to find one at every system you stop at, especially since IMTU they are only available at class C or better starports. I figure the price needs to come down by a factor of 10 to make them a viable option. Otherwise I'll just add a Generate program to my ship loan and only need to pay about Cr1,600 per trip (so J1 is cheaper for Plots, J2 and up is cheaper for Generate, at MTU Cr1,000 per J) to generate my own jump plots, to and from anywhere and anywhen. Unless of course part of the bank's loan requirement is to limit me to where I can operate (so they can keep track of their property) and they won't allow a Generate program and only allow use of Plot programs for certain sytems. Skips are not common in MTU for this reason alone, only very trusted ship purchasers get a Generate program. Oh sure, you might be able to hack your own Generate program or buy a bootleg Plot, and bypass the security lockouts* but that won't be easy.
* All commercial ship loans, and some others, insist on a bank installed tamper proof and "hard-wired" Anti-Hijack program as part of the standard loadout. It's not just to protect the ship owner of course. Try to plot an unauthorized jump (including unsafe jumps) and the computer will shut down the first time it enters a class C or better system and start calling for assistance. Again, this is to limit the losses from skipping.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Agreed on the nature of the data Imperium Festerium, it's not even days in MTU. For me it's a very narrow window, time and position, outside of which you have an increasing chance of misjump, so I don't bother to make them self-erasing. It's use at your own risk, we only guarantee it to work when used properly at this precise time from these precise cooridinates for a jump of this range to this system. The Navigate program will attempt to adjust the Plot if used outside the safe parameters but it's not always going to be able to compensate. My TU isn't too concerned with failsafe issues, it's very much a mature society where ultimately you are responsible for yourself.
My problem is with the cost as listed for one reason. If I can't afford a Generate program at Cr800,000 there's no way I can afford to throw money away on single use Plots at Cr10,000 per while trying to make ship payments. In a few years the Generate program is paying for itself not even factoring all the nuisance issues of the single use Plots. Things like having to find one at every system you stop at, especially since IMTU they are only available at class C or better starports. I figure the price needs to come down by a factor of 10 to make them a viable option. Otherwise I'll just add a Generate program to my ship loan and only need to pay about Cr1,600 per trip (so J1 is cheaper for Plots, J2 and up is cheaper for Generate, at MTU Cr1,000 per J) to generate my own jump plots, to and from anywhere and anywhen. Unless of course part of the bank's loan requirement is to limit me to where I can operate (so they can keep track of their property) and they won't allow a Generate program and only allow use of Plot programs for certain sytems. Skips are not common in MTU for this reason alone, only very trusted ship purchasers get a Generate program. Oh sure, you might be able to hack your own Generate program or buy a bootleg Plot, and bypass the security lockouts* but that won't be easy.
* All commercial ship loans, and some others, insist on a bank installed tamper proof and "hard-wired" Anti-Hijack program as part of the standard loadout. It's not just to protect the ship owner of course. Try to plot an unauthorized jump (including unsafe jumps) and the computer will shut down the first time it enters a class C or better system and start calling for assistance. Again, this is to limit the losses from skipping.
My problem is with the cost as listed for one reason. If I can't afford a Generate program at Cr800,000 there's no way I can afford to throw money away on single use Plots at Cr10,000 per while trying to make ship payments. In a few years the Generate program is paying for itself not even factoring all the nuisance issues of the single use Plots. Things like having to find one at every system you stop at, especially since IMTU they are only available at class C or better starports. I figure the price needs to come down by a factor of 10 to make them a viable option. Otherwise I'll just add a Generate program to my ship loan and only need to pay about Cr1,600 per trip (so J1 is cheaper for Plots, J2 and up is cheaper for Generate, at MTU Cr1,000 per J) to generate my own jump plots, to and from anywhere and anywhen. Unless of course part of the bank's loan requirement is to limit me to where I can operate (so they can keep track of their property) and they won't allow a Generate program and only allow use of Plot programs for certain sytems. Skips are not common in MTU for this reason alone, only very trusted ship purchasers get a Generate program. Oh sure, you might be able to hack your own Generate program or buy a bootleg Plot, and bypass the security lockouts* but that won't be easy.
* All commercial ship loans, and some others, insist on a bank installed tamper proof and "hard-wired" Anti-Hijack program as part of the standard loadout. It's not just to protect the ship owner of course. Try to plot an unauthorized jump (including unsafe jumps) and the computer will shut down the first time it enters a class C or better system and start calling for assistance. Again, this is to limit the losses from skipping.
I remember that being a good'un, yeah.
I tend to really appreciate the Journal articles when they deal with game mechanics like that, and don't fuss around with OTU stuff. Even backinnaday, I never really got into OTU - the whole point of GMing for me was always to knit together your own universe. But elements that add depth to the basic ruleset without dictating much in the way of backstory or setting, I've always appreciated.
I tend to really appreciate the Journal articles when they deal with game mechanics like that, and don't fuss around with OTU stuff. Even backinnaday, I never really got into OTU - the whole point of GMing for me was always to knit together your own universe. But elements that add depth to the basic ruleset without dictating much in the way of backstory or setting, I've always appreciated.
I remember that being a good'un, yeah.
I tend to really appreciate the Journal articles when they deal with game mechanics like that, and don't fuss around with OTU stuff. Even backinnaday, I never really got into OTU - the whole point of GMing for me was always to knit together your own universe. But elements that add depth to the basic ruleset without dictating much in the way of backstory or setting, I've always appreciated.
I tend to really appreciate the Journal articles when they deal with game mechanics like that, and don't fuss around with OTU stuff. Even backinnaday, I never really got into OTU - the whole point of GMing for me was always to knit together your own universe. But elements that add depth to the basic ruleset without dictating much in the way of backstory or setting, I've always appreciated.
