Reasonable, given Regina's place in the Marches.
Canonical Shipyards
- Thread starter robject
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Reasonable, given Regina's place in the Marches.
Not what I was pointing out (or attempting to point out). A major contractor to the Imperial Navy and other bulk clients would have a greater capacity than 5000T ships. And so would a megacorporate subsidiary. That 5000T figure belong to the now-discarded small ship OTU; not to the current, post-HG OTU.
With a population of 800 million, I'd guesstimate that Regina would have a military shipyard capacity of 250,000-400,000 dT (30-50% of what TCS would give it). Goodness only knows how big the civilian capacity is.
I'd suggest giving General Shipyards the capacity to build 50,000T ships (so the 5000 would be a decimal error, see?) Jump-4 ships, of course... :devil:
Hans
I thought about treating it as a decimal "error", too.
Makes me wonder what that shipyard's busy with. Building Lightning-class cruisers, perhaps?
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BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) is a major American defense contractor and industrial corporation with core manufacturing concentrations in defense systems and defense and commercial electronics. Raytheon is the world's largest producer of guided missiles. As of 2007, it was the fifth largest defense contractor in the world, and is the fourth largest defense contractor in the United States by revenue.
Area served Worldwide
Revenue ▲ $ 23.174 billion (2008)
Operating income ▲ $ 2.596 billion (2008)
Net income ▲ $ 1.672 billion (2008)
Total assets ▲ $ 23.296 billion (2008)
Total equity ▼ $ 9.087 billion (2008)
Employees 73,000 (2009)
It has sub-companies located from the UK to Japan, and points between.
But Raytheon doesn't build a single aircraft (since selling its biz-jet & trainer aircraft division in 2007) or manned spacecraft.
Surely only a company that builds aircraft or manned spacecraft can be "a major aerospace contractor"?
General likely builds lots of sub-systems (and maybe ship's missiles) to go in larger ships as well as a few smaller ships... much like Raytheon when it was still building Hawker/Beechcraft biz-jets & T-6 Texan II trainers, but no fighters, transports, combat helicopters, or manned spacecraft.
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It's not General Subcomponents, it's General Shipyards. I suppose one could go that way, but you'd still be changing the original canon, which emphasized General Shipyards as a major shipbuilder, not a major subcomponent manufacturer. You'd just be changing it in another way. Not that I'd reject that solution on that ground, but do we (whoever "we" are) want to change General Shipyards from being a major shipbuilder?
Hans
Well, General built the Kinunir. So it can, and does, build ships. I'm sure it could build components as well.
I don't think that was Black Bat's point. He was arguing that a company could be described as a major supplier to a navy without building anything more than small insignificant ships, if instead it supplied massive amounts of parts. I.e. that even if General Shipyards only built 5000T ships, it could still be described as a major supplier, provided the 'major' applied to something other than ships. And so it could, as the example he provided shows. What I asked in return was, do we want to change canon so that General Shipyards are known as a major supplier because it supplies subcomponents (with ships but a small sideline) rather than because it builds ships?
Hans
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Oh-h-h-h.
I would think the answer may vary based on ... er, rather, I think that answer is unanswerable in a canon sense... I mean, rather, that shipyards build ships. Hmmm.
Theophilus
SOC-13
Here's a couple more, I'm still searching.
Delainey Corporation Shipyard at Kaasu/Corridor located in the outer system, produces TL 16 ship (possibly th TL16 SDB's mentioned) From Megatraveller Journal #2 Pg 48
Vincennes/Deneb MTJ #3 pg 9 "Space: In the early days of the frpntier, Vincennes had the largest shipyards in the sector and supplied vast numbers of ships.....
....mostly orbital facilities with some also located near the system defense base at Friend.
This one builds the TL14/16 10kton Sonoma class Destroyer "
Delainey Corporation Shipyard at Kaasu/Corridor located in the outer system, produces TL 16 ship (possibly th TL16 SDB's mentioned) From Megatraveller Journal #2 Pg 48
Vincennes/Deneb MTJ #3 pg 9 "Space: In the early days of the frpntier, Vincennes had the largest shipyards in the sector and supplied vast numbers of ships.....
....mostly orbital facilities with some also located near the system defense base at Friend.
This one builds the TL14/16 10kton Sonoma class Destroyer "
I think that may be over-thinking the issue. If it's a class A, then it builds starships. If it's not a class A, but the world has a sufficient tech level, then I'm sure it can build parts for the Imperial Navy and ship them.
The post you replied to talked about General Shipyards. For some reason you seem to've gotten that mixed up with worlds with Class A starports. I don't understand what you're trying to say.
Hans
The post generalizes to any class A starport's yards with an application to General at Regina. So: Regina, because it has a class A starport, is known for building ships, not parts, so thus are its yards known, and there seems to be no reason to change this definition. And, that old Book-2-inspired thing about General having a 5,000t dock has not aged well; Regina seems to command much too powerful a presence for such a rinky-dink yard, so I'm for increasing that cap.
My current suspicion is that Yard 17 is in orbit around Regina/Assiniboia.
The post focused on building components rather than starships. So: I'll deflect that back by saying that any world can build components at its tech level. Thus "component-building" doesn't appear to be a hallmark of Class A starports and therefore not "the" hallmark of any yards at Regina, including General. Further implications of course are that worlds can potentially build starships without a class A starport, but beyond that rule in Trillion Credit Squadron I don't know where to go with that.
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No one is suggesting we do. I made the point that, according to canon, General Shipyards are known as a major supplier to the IN, and suggested that you don't become known as a major supplier to the IN by supplying rinky-dink 5000T escorts. This was in support of the notion that the size of ship that GS was able to build be retconned to 50,000T. BlackBat countered that argument by posting about a Real Life company that is considered a major supplier to the USN because it supplied large numbers of parts. That's the issue we were debating. Not whether GS builds ships, but whether it builds big ships.
This does not follow. Some of the other shipyards could be building big ships for the navy.
Where I want to go with it is to promote the notion that Class A starport ratings are awarded to starports with shipyards that actually builds ships for the civilian market right now[*]. It has very little to do with naval shipbuilding. So if you have a world that is perfectly capable of building ships for the civilian market, but doesn't actually do it (perhaps because the world next door has cornered the market), then it doesn't get a Class A rating.
[*] Yes, I know that makes nonsense of near-empty worlds with Class A starports that is being maintained, ready to spring into action at a moment's notice, by investor banks, but then, I think that such a notion is nonsens anyway.
Hans
It's likely that those class A starports are there mainly (or usually?) for enterprise, but as you mention, some ports don't fit in that mold. I would say those are most likely more often used for Naval or even Scout purposes. There are other implications but I want to stick close to the Shipyards theme, and in particular the Shipyards in the Spinward Marches theme I guess.
I've updated my initial post to include class A starports that appear to be connected to somewhat prominent worlds, and made the tentative assumption that most of these starports could have yards capable of building "Big" ships. I don't know if it really should matter what the size or importance of the host world is, though, except in a general probabilistic sense (i.e. a "big" world tends to be more likely to build "big" ships).
Hmm, I suppose the only starports likely to have built Lightnings are TL14 and TL15 ones: Tenalphi, Macene, Palique, Glisten, Rhylanor, Mora, and Trin.
I've updated my initial post to include class A starports that appear to be connected to somewhat prominent worlds, and made the tentative assumption that most of these starports could have yards capable of building "Big" ships. I don't know if it really should matter what the size or importance of the host world is, though, except in a general probabilistic sense (i.e. a "big" world tends to be more likely to build "big" ships).
Hmm, I suppose the only starports likely to have built Lightnings are TL14 and TL15 ones: Tenalphi, Macene, Palique, Glisten, Rhylanor, Mora, and Trin.
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E.D.Quibell
SOC-13
From Adventure 13:
"One of the most prolific producers of the subsidized liner is Tukera Lines, which
has constructed most of the subsidized liners in Tukera service. Other well-known
constructors include Osten Varn Slinten of Fornast sector, and Allied Prefabricated
Ship and Vessels of Magyar sector."
Apart from the two yards mentioned above could all the "Yard X" mentioned previously be Tukera yards?
Regards,
Ewan
"One of the most prolific producers of the subsidized liner is Tukera Lines, which
has constructed most of the subsidized liners in Tukera service. Other well-known
constructors include Osten Varn Slinten of Fornast sector, and Allied Prefabricated
Ship and Vessels of Magyar sector."
Apart from the two yards mentioned above could all the "Yard X" mentioned previously be Tukera yards?
Regards,
Ewan
Theophilus
SOC-13
What Ilelish sector listing, did I miss something?
For example, look at the GENII data from here: http://www.ocean-of-storms.com/core/astrogat/gE.htm
Yard 10 is 2601 Ilelish.
Yard 14 is 2218 Ilelish.
They're just "names", but still.
