CT Combat Redux

[Golan2072]

Basic damage would be as in LBB1 or LBB4 (i.e. Rifle 3D, Gauss Rifle 4D and so on). If you hit an unarmored target, you roll damage and apply each die to either STR, DEX or END (defender's choice). If you roll a Spectacular Success, YOU (i.e. the attacker) get to apply all damage to ONE characteristic - and if it is reduced beneath zero, to another and so on; this replaces the "first blood" rule.

Armor does not affect chances to hit, and instead absorbs damage. Armor is rated in dice - the amount of damage dice it absorbs:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">ARMOR ABSORBS*
Jack 0/1
Mesh 1/1
Flak Jacket 2/1
Cloth 3/2
Plated Cloth 3/3
Combat/BD 5/5
Reflec 6**</pre>[/QUOTE]* The first number is for ranged attacks; the second is for melee attacks.
** Reflec "absorbs" only Laser fire; it is ineffective against any other kind of attack.

Plated Cloth is a semi-hard armor combining ballistic cloth with additional hard plastic or metal plates (usually a riot police or light trooper armor).

However, some weapons have an Armor Piercing ability (AP), expressed in dice as well. It is the number of armor reduction ignored by the weapon; note that AP cannot reduce Armor below zero. A few examples:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Weapon AP
Pistols/SMGs 0
Shotguns 0
Carbines/ARs 1
Rifles 2
Laser Carbines 2
Laser Rifles 3
Gauss Rifle 3</pre>[/QUOTE]Sounds complicated? Here's an example. Assume you use your Laser Carbine (Damage 4, AP 2) to attack an enemy trooper (who's wearing Cloth Armor, Absorb 3 for ranged attacks. If you hit, you'll do 4D-(3D-2D)=3D damage.

Bypassing armor is possible in two ways - either Spectacular Success (which, in addition to the damage rule noted above, halves effective armor BEFORE applying AP) or by sniping (AKA "called shots"). Sniping require the following conditions:
1) No active enemies are within Close range of the sniper.
2) The sniper must not move (not even evade) during the turn in which she snipes.
3) Target must be within Short range (for pistols/SMGs) or Medium range (for scope-less rifles) of the sniper; an optical or electronic scope allows this restriction to be ignored.
4) The sniper must have atleast Skill-1 with the weapon AND be elligible (sp?) for the weapon's DEX bonus.
5) A -4 DM is applied to hit.

A sniper who successfully hits her mark may choose ONE of two things:
1) Halve effective armor before applying AP.
OR
2) Apply all damage to one characteristic, sniper's choice.

 

[Golan2072]

Basic damage would be as in LBB1 or LBB4 (i.e. Rifle 3D, Gauss Rifle 4D and so on). If you hit an unarmored target, you roll damage and apply each die to either STR, DEX or END (defender's choice). If you roll a Spectacular Success, YOU (i.e. the attacker) get to apply all damage to ONE characteristic - and if it is reduced beneath zero, to another and so on; this replaces the "first blood" rule.

Armor does not affect chances to hit, and instead absorbs damage. Armor is rated in dice - the amount of damage dice it absorbs:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">ARMOR ABSORBS*
Jack 0/1
Mesh 1/1
Flak Jacket 2/1
Cloth 3/2
Plated Cloth 3/3
Combat/BD 5/5
Reflec 6**</pre>[/QUOTE]* The first number is for ranged attacks; the second is for melee attacks.
** Reflec "absorbs" only Laser fire; it is ineffective against any other kind of attack.

Plated Cloth is a semi-hard armor combining ballistic cloth with additional hard plastic or metal plates (usually a riot police or light trooper armor).

However, some weapons have an Armor Piercing ability (AP), expressed in dice as well. It is the number of armor reduction ignored by the weapon; note that AP cannot reduce Armor below zero. A few examples:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Weapon AP
Pistols/SMGs 0
Shotguns 0
Carbines/ARs 1
Rifles 2
Laser Carbines 2
Laser Rifles 3
Gauss Rifle 3</pre>[/QUOTE]Sounds complicated? Here's an example. Assume you use your Laser Carbine (Damage 4, AP 2) to attack an enemy trooper (who's wearing Cloth Armor, Absorb 3 for ranged attacks. If you hit, you'll do 4D-(3D-2D)=3D damage.

Bypassing armor is possible in two ways - either Spectacular Success (which, in addition to the damage rule noted above, halves effective armor BEFORE applying AP) or by sniping (AKA "called shots"). Sniping require the following conditions:
1) No active enemies are within Close range of the sniper.
2) The sniper must not move (not even evade) during the turn in which she snipes.
3) Target must be within Short range (for pistols/SMGs) or Medium range (for scope-less rifles) of the sniper; an optical or electronic scope allows this restriction to be ignored.
4) The sniper must have atleast Skill-1 with the weapon AND be elligible (sp?) for the weapon's DEX bonus.
5) A -4 DM is applied to hit.

A sniper who successfully hits her mark may choose ONE of two things:
1) Halve effective armor before applying AP.
OR
2) Apply all damage to one characteristic, sniper's choice.

 

[Pickles]

This system is almost identical to the penetration rule we introduced into our games back in the 80's (using the RuneQuest II percentage system). You even have the 'spectacular success' (critical hit in RQ) which ignores armour. You'll be glad to know it worked fine all those years, so I think you're on to a winner.

 

[Pickles]

This system is almost identical to the penetration rule we introduced into our games back in the 80's (using the RuneQuest II percentage system). You even have the 'spectacular success' (critical hit in RQ) which ignores armour. You'll be glad to know it worked fine all those years, so I think you're on to a winner.

 

[Golan2072]

Great minds think alike! (and I've never played RuneQuest ever, not even seen the book). Spectacular Success is a feature of UGM which I was using to my advantage.

My main sources of inspiration for these rules were Sigg Oddra's attempts at this direction (mostly armor as a damage absorber, inspired by T4, I think; btw I have T4 on my HD from the DTRPG free download release, I have to read through it soon), Shadowrun, 4th edition (the armor-piercing as a modifier to the armor rating, as well as the seperate Ballistic/Impact armor ratings) and MT (the task-difficulty matrix).

 

[Golan2072]

Great minds think alike! (and I've never played RuneQuest ever, not even seen the book). Spectacular Success is a feature of UGM which I was using to my advantage.

My main sources of inspiration for these rules were Sigg Oddra's attempts at this direction (mostly armor as a damage absorber, inspired by T4, I think; btw I have T4 on my HD from the DTRPG free download release, I have to read through it soon), Shadowrun, 4th edition (the armor-piercing as a modifier to the armor rating, as well as the seperate Ballistic/Impact armor ratings) and MT (the task-difficulty matrix).

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Only change you might consider, 2-4601, is that:
1) No active enemies are within Close range and aware of the sniper.
You could check this in the same way you check surprise. Of course, your sniper's going to have to beat feet after the shot.......

Do you mind if I incorporate this into "MyT"? Good stuff.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Only change you might consider, 2-4601, is that:
1) No active enemies are within Close range and aware of the sniper.
You could check this in the same way you check surprise. Of course, your sniper's going to have to beat feet after the shot.......

Do you mind if I incorporate this into "MyT"? Good stuff.

 

[Supplement Four]

Emp,

Have you considered what you're "giving up" by going with the MT method of having the same task for each weapon vs. the way CT provides "variety" among different weapons?

I mean, sure, it's easy to say, "Hey! You got a handgun? Well, all your tasks need X or better to hit--no matter which handgun you have."

Personally, I like the way CT handles the differences between different types of weapons.

Consider....

The base numbers for weapons to-hit on attack throws at Medium range...

(By "base" numbers, I mean the basic number needed to-hit using the weapon
without consideration to a character's skills or stats)


MT...
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">7+ BodyPistol
7+ AutoPistol
7+ Revolver
7+ Carbine
7+ Rifle
7+ AutoRifle
7+ ShotGun
7+ SMG
7+ Laser Carbine
7+ Laser Rifle</pre>[/QUOTE]In MT, no matter which of these weapons you have, at Medium Range, you need a 7+ to hit with them.

You need a 7+ to hit with a Body Pistol...and you need a 7+ to hit at the same range with a Laser Rifle?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Now, compare that bland 7+ number to what CT provides for the same weapons at the same range...each weapon is different.

Body Pistol at Medium Range needs a 14+ to hit, while the Laser Rifle only needs a 6+.


CT...
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">14+ BodyPistol
12+ AutoPistol
11+ Revolver
10+ Carbine
8+ Rifle
6+ AutoRifle
5+ ShotGun
5+ SMG
7+ Laser Carbine
6+ Laser Rifle</pre>[/QUOTE]I don't see this as a benefit of MT. These numbers above represent a weapon's base roll--the attack roll sans influence by a character's skills or stats.

This is a pretty strong argument, in my opinion, for CT-style over MT-style.

 

[Supplement Four]

Emp,

Have you considered what you're "giving up" by going with the MT method of having the same task for each weapon vs. the way CT provides "variety" among different weapons?

I mean, sure, it's easy to say, "Hey! You got a handgun? Well, all your tasks need X or better to hit--no matter which handgun you have."

Personally, I like the way CT handles the differences between different types of weapons.

Consider....

The base numbers for weapons to-hit on attack throws at Medium range...

(By "base" numbers, I mean the basic number needed to-hit using the weapon
without consideration to a character's skills or stats)


MT...
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">7+ BodyPistol
7+ AutoPistol
7+ Revolver
7+ Carbine
7+ Rifle
7+ AutoRifle
7+ ShotGun
7+ SMG
7+ Laser Carbine
7+ Laser Rifle</pre>[/QUOTE]In MT, no matter which of these weapons you have, at Medium Range, you need a 7+ to hit with them.

You need a 7+ to hit with a Body Pistol...and you need a 7+ to hit at the same range with a Laser Rifle?

That doesn't make sense to me.

Now, compare that bland 7+ number to what CT provides for the same weapons at the same range...each weapon is different.

Body Pistol at Medium Range needs a 14+ to hit, while the Laser Rifle only needs a 6+.


CT...
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">14+ BodyPistol
12+ AutoPistol
11+ Revolver
10+ Carbine
8+ Rifle
6+ AutoRifle
5+ ShotGun
5+ SMG
7+ Laser Carbine
6+ Laser Rifle</pre>[/QUOTE]I don't see this as a benefit of MT. These numbers above represent a weapon's base roll--the attack roll sans influence by a character's skills or stats.

This is a pretty strong argument, in my opinion, for CT-style over MT-style.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Actually, WJP, I think he is giving different numbers for different weapons. Take a look at the table he posted with the ranges and the difficulties indexed on it.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Actually, WJP, I think he is giving different numbers for different weapons. Take a look at the table he posted with the ranges and the difficulties indexed on it.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Only change you might consider, 2-4601, is that:
1) No active enemies are within Close range and aware of the sniper.
You could check this in the same way you check surprise. Of course, your sniper's going to have to beat feet after the shot.......

Good idea - and it'll work with knives/daggers/blades too

Do you mind if I incorporate this into "MyT"? Good stuff.

Feel free to use it

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Only change you might consider, 2-4601, is that:
1) No active enemies are within Close range and aware of the sniper.
You could check this in the same way you check surprise. Of course, your sniper's going to have to beat feet after the shot.......

Good idea - and it'll work with knives/daggers/blades too

Do you mind if I incorporate this into "MyT"? Good stuff.

Feel free to use it

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Actually, WJP, I think he is giving different numbers for different weapons. Take a look at the table he posted with the ranges and the difficulties indexed on it.

Actually I took a compromise - my table has far more categories than the MT one (which only has "Handgun", "Rifle" and "Thrown") - I count the range difference between projectiles and lasers, between carbines and rifles, even between shotguns and rifles. However, I might expand this to a CT-style range matrix - you just copy the relevant raw to your char sheet.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Actually, WJP, I think he is giving different numbers for different weapons. Take a look at the table he posted with the ranges and the difficulties indexed on it.

Actually I took a compromise - my table has far more categories than the MT one (which only has "Handgun", "Rifle" and "Thrown") - I count the range difference between projectiles and lasers, between carbines and rifles, even between shotguns and rifles. However, I might expand this to a CT-style range matrix - you just copy the relevant raw to your char sheet.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Actually I took a compromise - my table has far more categories than the MT one (which only has "Handgun", "Rifle" and "Thrown") - I count the range difference between projectiles and lasers, between carbines and rifles, even between shotguns and rifles. However, I might expand this to a CT-style range matrix - you just copy the relevant raw to your char sheet.

What's the benefit, then? If you've still got to copy stuff to your sheet (a la CT and the CT DMs), then why change CT at all?

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
Actually I took a compromise - my table has far more categories than the MT one (which only has "Handgun", "Rifle" and "Thrown") - I count the range difference between projectiles and lasers, between carbines and rifles, even between shotguns and rifles. However, I might expand this to a CT-style range matrix - you just copy the relevant raw to your char sheet.

What's the benefit, then? If you've still got to copy stuff to your sheet (a la CT and the CT DMs), then why change CT at all?

 

[Golan2072]

This is a tough call - I have to decide between moderate abstraction (UGM tasks per weapon group) to details (CT DMs).

The one thing I'm really changing is armor/penetation - one Matrix less, and now vehicles could be incorporated as well (they'll absorb more damage dice, and each remaining die of damage after this absorption should give one roll on a simple "vehicle damage" table ALA LBB2 ship combat).

My idea about vehicle damage absorption (for non-armored vehicles; armor would add to that) is something along the following lines:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">VEHICLE DAMAGE
SIZE ABSORPTION
Small (motorcycle) 1
Medium (car or jeep) 3
Large (van or small truck) 5
Huge (ATV or large truck) 7</pre>[/QUOTE]AP applies as normal, so a Gauss Rifle or a Laser Carbine will still be able to cause one damage roll a van (but not an ATV) and a Laser Rifle would inflict one damage roll on an ATV per hit. Specialized ammo will make things even easier.

I'll work up a series of modifications to Piper's excellent CT vehicle system to adapt it to the UGM and to my damage system; this will also allow the addition of armor in the form of more damage absorption points.

For each remaining die of damage after Absorption, roll once on the Surface table below; roll on the Interior table only if the Surface Table indicates so; Any Interior hit also causes a pressure breach if the vehicle is pressurized. Roll on the Critical table instead if you get a UGM "spectacular success"; note that if the vehicle's Armor is twice or more than the weapon's amount of damage dice, even a Spectacular Success won't penetrate it.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">D6 SURFACE INTERIOR CRITICAL
1 Weapon Integrity Fuel
2 Weapon Transmission All Crew
3 Suspension Transmission LSS
4 Misc One Crew Control
5 Interior One Crew Power Plant
6 Interior Power Plant Explosion</pre>[/QUOTE]Weapon: One weapon becomes inoperative; the gunner (if he operates the weapon directly) recieves 3D damage (absorbable by armor); if no weapons are installed or no intact weapons remain, ignore the result.

Suspension: The vehicle's suspension (wheels, tracks, legs, ACV-skirt or grav-module) is damaged; the first time it is hit, reduce speed by half; at the second, the vehicle grinds to a halt. Every time the suspension is hit, if the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the driver/pilot must roll a Routine (Skill/DEX) UGM task using the appropriate vehicle skill; failure means that the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table).

Misc: Roll 1D6; on 1 or 2, the vehicle's external lights are rendered inoperative; on 3 or 4, the vehicle's external sensors (if any, othewise ignore) are rendered inoperative; on 5 or 6, one of the vehicle's doors is stuck (Difficult (STR Only) UGM task to open).

Integrity: Pressure integrity is lost. If the vehicle is not pressurized, or if pressure has already been lost, ignore this result.

Transmission: The vehicle's transmission (drive train or ACV-fans) is damaged; reduce speed by half in the first hit, total speed loss in the second. Every time the transmission is hit, if the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the driver/pilot must roll a Standard (Skill/DEX) UGM task using the appropriate vehicle skill; failure means that the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table). Grav vehicles do not have transmission, so treat this result for them as an Integrity Loss.

One Crew: One crewmember is hit; apply the entire penetrating damage (i.e. after absorption by the vehicle and the character's armor) to the character.

Power Plant: The vehicle's power plant is rendered inoperative; the vehicle grinds to a halt, and all power-dependent weapons cease to function; life support continues to work on backup batteries. If the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the driver/pilot must roll a Standard (Skill/DEX) UGM task using the appropriate vehicle skill; failure means that the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table).

Fuel: At the first hit, half of the vehicle's fuel leaks (but does not ignite immidiately). At the second, the entire fuel tank is breached and the vehicle slows down and then grinds to a halt. If an explosive weapon scores any kind of an Interior hit at a vehicle leaking flammable fuel, the fuel ignites; inflict 3D burn damage at the crew every turn they are still in the vehicle.

All Crew: An explosion (3D, AP 1) has occured that effects the whole crew (personal armor absorbs as normal).

LSS: The vehicle's Life Support System is rendered inoperative. If there is no such system onboard, or if it was already disabled, treat as an Integrity Loss result.

Control: The vehicle's control system and/or computer fails; If the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table).

Explosion: The vehicle's fuel tank or ammunition storage ewxplodes; inflict 5D damage (AP 3, absorbable only by personal armor that covers the entire body) on all crew members; the vehicle is totally inoperative, ofcourse, and might burn.

 

[Golan2072]

This is a tough call - I have to decide between moderate abstraction (UGM tasks per weapon group) to details (CT DMs).

The one thing I'm really changing is armor/penetation - one Matrix less, and now vehicles could be incorporated as well (they'll absorb more damage dice, and each remaining die of damage after this absorption should give one roll on a simple "vehicle damage" table ALA LBB2 ship combat).

My idea about vehicle damage absorption (for non-armored vehicles; armor would add to that) is something along the following lines:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">VEHICLE DAMAGE
SIZE ABSORPTION
Small (motorcycle) 1
Medium (car or jeep) 3
Large (van or small truck) 5
Huge (ATV or large truck) 7</pre>[/QUOTE]AP applies as normal, so a Gauss Rifle or a Laser Carbine will still be able to cause one damage roll a van (but not an ATV) and a Laser Rifle would inflict one damage roll on an ATV per hit. Specialized ammo will make things even easier.

I'll work up a series of modifications to Piper's excellent CT vehicle system to adapt it to the UGM and to my damage system; this will also allow the addition of armor in the form of more damage absorption points.

For each remaining die of damage after Absorption, roll once on the Surface table below; roll on the Interior table only if the Surface Table indicates so; Any Interior hit also causes a pressure breach if the vehicle is pressurized. Roll on the Critical table instead if you get a UGM "spectacular success"; note that if the vehicle's Armor is twice or more than the weapon's amount of damage dice, even a Spectacular Success won't penetrate it.

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">D6 SURFACE INTERIOR CRITICAL
1 Weapon Integrity Fuel
2 Weapon Transmission All Crew
3 Suspension Transmission LSS
4 Misc One Crew Control
5 Interior One Crew Power Plant
6 Interior Power Plant Explosion</pre>[/QUOTE]Weapon: One weapon becomes inoperative; the gunner (if he operates the weapon directly) recieves 3D damage (absorbable by armor); if no weapons are installed or no intact weapons remain, ignore the result.

Suspension: The vehicle's suspension (wheels, tracks, legs, ACV-skirt or grav-module) is damaged; the first time it is hit, reduce speed by half; at the second, the vehicle grinds to a halt. Every time the suspension is hit, if the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the driver/pilot must roll a Routine (Skill/DEX) UGM task using the appropriate vehicle skill; failure means that the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table).

Misc: Roll 1D6; on 1 or 2, the vehicle's external lights are rendered inoperative; on 3 or 4, the vehicle's external sensors (if any, othewise ignore) are rendered inoperative; on 5 or 6, one of the vehicle's doors is stuck (Difficult (STR Only) UGM task to open).

Integrity: Pressure integrity is lost. If the vehicle is not pressurized, or if pressure has already been lost, ignore this result.

Transmission: The vehicle's transmission (drive train or ACV-fans) is damaged; reduce speed by half in the first hit, total speed loss in the second. Every time the transmission is hit, if the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the driver/pilot must roll a Standard (Skill/DEX) UGM task using the appropriate vehicle skill; failure means that the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table). Grav vehicles do not have transmission, so treat this result for them as an Integrity Loss.

One Crew: One crewmember is hit; apply the entire penetrating damage (i.e. after absorption by the vehicle and the character's armor) to the character.

Power Plant: The vehicle's power plant is rendered inoperative; the vehicle grinds to a halt, and all power-dependent weapons cease to function; life support continues to work on backup batteries. If the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the driver/pilot must roll a Standard (Skill/DEX) UGM task using the appropriate vehicle skill; failure means that the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table).

Fuel: At the first hit, half of the vehicle's fuel leaks (but does not ignite immidiately). At the second, the entire fuel tank is breached and the vehicle slows down and then grinds to a halt. If an explosive weapon scores any kind of an Interior hit at a vehicle leaking flammable fuel, the fuel ignites; inflict 3D burn damage at the crew every turn they are still in the vehicle.

All Crew: An explosion (3D, AP 1) has occured that effects the whole crew (personal armor absorbs as normal).

LSS: The vehicle's Life Support System is rendered inoperative. If there is no such system onboard, or if it was already disabled, treat as an Integrity Loss result.

Control: The vehicle's control system and/or computer fails; If the vehicle is moving at more than 30kph (speed 3 in LBB1 terms), and/or if the vehicle is airborne, the vehicle crashes (speed at zero; roll twice on the table).

Explosion: The vehicle's fuel tank or ammunition storage ewxplodes; inflict 5D damage (AP 3, absorbable only by personal armor that covers the entire body) on all crew members; the vehicle is totally inoperative, ofcourse, and might burn.