Well, if Jump torps are legal, it isn't
If they aren't, it is
Marc very firmly says they are NOT.
CT Errata Compendium
- Thread starter DonM
- Start date
Marc very firmly says they are NOT.
christopher.boote
SOC-12
Then yes, it's an error in the errata for Starships Book 2, 1981 edition
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Sure Don, can I borrow the TARDIS tomorrow, er, yesterday, ummm, you know, then... ish 
Sure Don, can I borrow the TARDIS tomorrow, er, yesterday, ummm, you know, then... ish
Well, it's a time machine anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
TCS Regal design data Maneuver Drive crew
Morning Donald McKinney,
I seem to be having a math problem when determining the size of the Regal's Maneuver Drive crew of 127 as listed in the data sheet on page 35 of the errata identified as version 07. My calculations match those of the crew numbers listed for the J-Drive and power plant.
Per HG page 32 1 crew member is required per 100 tons of installed drive and power plant:
J-Drive Crew = round(3,750 tons ÷ 100,0) = round(37.5,0) = 38
M-Drive Crew = round(12,750 tons ÷ 100,0) = round(127.5,0) = 128
Power Plant Crew = round(9,000 tons ÷ 100,0) = round(90.0,0) = 90
Total Engineering Crew = 256
Morning Donald McKinney,
I seem to be having a math problem when determining the size of the Regal's Maneuver Drive crew of 127 as listed in the data sheet on page 35 of the errata identified as version 07. My calculations match those of the crew numbers listed for the J-Drive and power plant.
Per HG page 32 1 crew member is required per 100 tons of installed drive and power plant:
J-Drive Crew = round(3,750 tons ÷ 100,0) = round(37.5,0) = 38
M-Drive Crew = round(12,750 tons ÷ 100,0) = round(127.5,0) = 128
Power Plant Crew = round(9,000 tons ÷ 100,0) = round(90.0,0) = 90
Total Engineering Crew = 256
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Why are you (or the example if that is the case) calculating for each drive element separately? That looks to be where you're getting the extra crew member due to rounding and thus producing an error that does not exist.
HG does NOT* calculate engineering crew by each element but as a whole.
* to my knowledge and understanding at least it never used to
Per HG page 32 1 crew member is required per 100 tons of installed drive and power plant:
J-Drive = 3,750 tons
M-Drive = 12,750 tons
Power Plant = 9,000 tons
Total installed drive and power plant = 25,500tons ÷ 100 = 255
Total Engineering Crew = 255
EDIT: Was somebody trying to fudge the breakdown by drive element to match the properly calculated total crew? And so to stick with the proper 255 dropped the extra from the incorrect numbers when broken down by drive element?
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snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Howdy far-trader,
The Regal's data sheet found in the Consolidated CT Errata has the crew broken down by each system.
Thank you for the bold and enlarged font showing me the steps.
Had the data sheet not broken the engineering crew down and fudged the maneuver drive crew to get 127 I would not have asked about the numbers.
Next, while I understand that for simplicity and ease of quick design all engineering, they seem at odds with how the gunnery section breaks down the gunnery crew. Each weapon system has a crew requirement. The Jump Drive is an entirely separate device which has different requirements from the Maneuver Drive and Power Plant. The power plant is another separate device that also has trained personnel. The maneuver drive is a device that modifies the power plant, which may or may not qualify as needing a crew.
I appear to be pushing my limits lately so I will just lurk on the boards. :-(
The Regal's data sheet found in the Consolidated CT Errata has the crew broken down by each system.
Thank you for the bold and enlarged font showing me the steps.
Had the data sheet not broken the engineering crew down and fudged the maneuver drive crew to get 127 I would not have asked about the numbers.
Next, while I understand that for simplicity and ease of quick design all engineering, they seem at odds with how the gunnery section breaks down the gunnery crew. Each weapon system has a crew requirement. The Jump Drive is an entirely separate device which has different requirements from the Maneuver Drive and Power Plant. The power plant is another separate device that also has trained personnel. The maneuver drive is a device that modifies the power plant, which may or may not qualify as needing a crew.
I appear to be pushing my limits lately so I will just lurk on the boards. :-(
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Morning (here, on the road) Tom
You're welcome, hope it didn't come across snarky, I'm still hunting down something resembling coffee and may not be my usual easy going self
EDIT: Wait? What? You're mistaken there Tom, my reply did not create that bold and enlarged font. Until I saw your PM I thought you were referring here to you having bolded and enlarged my points in YOUR reply.
Yeah that's a bit of a puzzler, but no need to worry about asking questions, that's the way to ferret out these issues.
Ah, but those weapons require different crewing levels (...from memory: 1 per turret or turret battery regardless of size, 2 per bay regardless of size, and 1 per 100tons? of spinal) unlike the engineering elements which all require the same crewing levels (1/100tons).
I don't think you're pushing too hard, questions are good, opinions are good, discussion is good, coffee is good
EDIT: That (see EDIT note above) was what you're talking about? The bold and enlarged font?
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snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello far-trader,
Trying many things without coffee is not a recommended event and I hope my reply here and the PM didn't offend.
I don't recall every bolding and enlarging quotes from someone being replied to. I do bold stuff I use outside the quotation.
Looks like the web gremlins are out enforce, I did a test with bolding text and content changed font size and did become bold. Of course my system could be at fault. I seem to have goofing things happen, I guessing computers are just getting even with me.
Oops, my original comment left out some wording, however I'm glad you were able to see where I was going.
HG lumps the three systems together for simplicity and to speed-up the design process. Here is how I see the systems the power plant is a reactor which has trained reactor personnel, the maneuver drive and jump drive, more advanced, is similar to the propeller shaft or jets used to push ships through the water. Each has specialists trained to operate, maintain, and repair them. Each system also has some basics that are common to them all allowing them to at least operate and do basic maintenance on the other systems when following procedural documentation.
Using a very basic surface ship engine room: Power Plant or boilers convert the ship's fuel into steam which spins turbines. The turbines, sort of a maneuver drive for normal operations, provides electrical power and/or turns the shaft which causes the propellers to turn providing thrust to move the ship. The jump drive is an even better maneuver drive that works great for getting over long distances in a short time but stinks and low speeds. Not a good example but the best I have thought of so far.
The power plant is the only item all vehicles and craft require. A starship requires a power plant with the jump drive and may have a maneuver drive. All spacecraft require a maneuver drive with a power plant and cannot have a jump drive.
Yep, the edit above was what I was talking about and apparently through my hat.
I do appreciate the aid you and everyone on all the boards/forums provide so I'll try not to be a pain in the, er um, neck.
You're welcome, hope it didn't come across snarky, I'm still hunting down something resembling coffee and may not be my usual easy going self
EDIT: Wait? What? You're mistaken there Tom, my reply did not create that bold and enlarged font. Until I saw your PM I thought you were referring here to you having bolded and enlarged my points in YOUR reply.
Trying many things without coffee is not a recommended event and I hope my reply here and the PM didn't offend.
I don't recall every bolding and enlarging quotes from someone being replied to. I do bold stuff I use outside the quotation.
Looks like the web gremlins are out enforce, I did a test with bolding text and content changed font size and did become bold. Of course my system could be at fault. I seem to have goofing things happen, I guessing computers are just getting even with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snrdg082102
Next, while I understand that for simplicity and ease of quick design all engineering, they seem at odds with how the gunnery section breaks down the gunnery crew. Each weapon system has a crew requirement.
Ah, but those weapons require different crewing levels (...from memory: 1 per turret or turret battery regardless of size, 2 per bay regardless of size, and 1 per 100tons? of spinal) unlike the engineering elements which all require the same crewing levels (1/100tons).
Oops, my original comment left out some wording, however I'm glad you were able to see where I was going.
HG lumps the three systems together for simplicity and to speed-up the design process. Here is how I see the systems the power plant is a reactor which has trained reactor personnel, the maneuver drive and jump drive, more advanced, is similar to the propeller shaft or jets used to push ships through the water. Each has specialists trained to operate, maintain, and repair them. Each system also has some basics that are common to them all allowing them to at least operate and do basic maintenance on the other systems when following procedural documentation.
Using a very basic surface ship engine room: Power Plant or boilers convert the ship's fuel into steam which spins turbines. The turbines, sort of a maneuver drive for normal operations, provides electrical power and/or turns the shaft which causes the propellers to turn providing thrust to move the ship. The jump drive is an even better maneuver drive that works great for getting over long distances in a short time but stinks and low speeds. Not a good example but the best I have thought of so far.
The power plant is the only item all vehicles and craft require. A starship requires a power plant with the jump drive and may have a maneuver drive. All spacecraft require a maneuver drive with a power plant and cannot have a jump drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snrdg082102
I appear to be pushing my limits lately so I will just lurk on the boards. :-(
I don't think you're pushing too hard, questions are good, opinions are good, discussion is good, coffee is good
EDIT: That (see EDIT note above) was what you're talking about? The bold and enlarged font?
Yep, the edit above was what I was talking about and apparently through my hat.
I do appreciate the aid you and everyone on all the boards/forums provide so I'll try not to be a pain in the, er um, neck.
Well, if Jump torps are legal, it isn't
If they aren't, it is
YAY! Yes!! Oh, I so happy!!!
I hated those things.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
HG Crew Command Section
The errata on page 15 lists the minimum Command Section as being 11 and the formula as 5 per 10,000 tons of ship.
HG page 32 requires 1 CO, 1 XO, 1 Computer Officer, 2 Navigators, 1 Medical Officer, and 1 Communications officer which equals 7 minimum. The formula for ships > 20,000 tons matches with the errata.
TCS Pilot Allowance adds 3 pilots for hulls > 20,000 tons.
Total count = 10
I've checked through the hard copies of the discussions I have kept, discussions on ct-starship, and here without finding where the 11th body comes from.
Can anyone help find the last Command Section Crew member?
Looking over the Regal entry on errata page 35 the Command Section Crew total is 42.
42 = (Hull tons / 10,000) x 5
42 /5 = Hull tons / 10,000
(42 / 5) x 10,000 = Hull tons
8.4 x 10,000 = Hull Tons
A Command Crew of 42 is required for an 84,000 ton hull.
The Regal has a hull of 75,000 tons
Command Section Crew = (75,000 / 10,000) x 5 = 7.5 x 5 = 37.5 = 38
Where did the 4 extra crew members come from again?
My apologies for asking about this for the millionth time, when I get the answer this time I'm taping the copy into my FFE 001.
The errata on page 15 lists the minimum Command Section as being 11 and the formula as 5 per 10,000 tons of ship.
HG page 32 requires 1 CO, 1 XO, 1 Computer Officer, 2 Navigators, 1 Medical Officer, and 1 Communications officer which equals 7 minimum. The formula for ships > 20,000 tons matches with the errata.
TCS Pilot Allowance adds 3 pilots for hulls > 20,000 tons.
Total count = 10
I've checked through the hard copies of the discussions I have kept, discussions on ct-starship, and here without finding where the 11th body comes from.
Can anyone help find the last Command Section Crew member?
Looking over the Regal entry on errata page 35 the Command Section Crew total is 42.
42 = (Hull tons / 10,000) x 5
42 /5 = Hull tons / 10,000
(42 / 5) x 10,000 = Hull tons
8.4 x 10,000 = Hull Tons
A Command Crew of 42 is required for an 84,000 ton hull.
The Regal has a hull of 75,000 tons
Command Section Crew = (75,000 / 10,000) x 5 = 7.5 x 5 = 37.5 = 38
Where did the 4 extra crew members come from again?
My apologies for asking about this for the millionth time, when I get the answer this time I'm taping the copy into my FFE 001.
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Um... I think that's where I added the medical section in my spreadsheet?
No, I'm not sure why I did it that way. How do you want to fix the Regal errata?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
eep!
I really haven't been keeping up and feel unqualified and undeserving to make too strong a statement on it. Apologies for basically dropping out of the loop for so long and not chipping in as much as I was and want to.
My suggestion for what it's worth given the above, keep the 255 total and drop references to splits between jump, maneuver, and power.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening DonM
Thanks for the clarification and the four extra bodies are indeed the personnel from the Medical Section, which I've been adding as a separate entry.
Command + Engineering + Gunnery + Flight + Ship's Troops + Service Crew + Frozen Watch + Medical.
My reason for adding Medical Section at the end is based on needing the first seven items to determine how many are needed.
Now that the 4 extra bodies in Regal's command section has been cleared up I still not any closer at figuring out where the 11th person came from in the Command Section.
Thanks for the clarification and the four extra bodies are indeed the personnel from the Medical Section, which I've been adding as a separate entry.
Command + Engineering + Gunnery + Flight + Ship's Troops + Service Crew + Frozen Watch + Medical.
My reason for adding Medical Section at the end is based on needing the first seven items to determine how many are needed.
Now that the 4 extra bodies in Regal's command section has been cleared up I still not any closer at figuring out where the 11th person came from in the Command Section.
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snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening DonM and far-trader,
To me the more accurate method is to determine the crews for each system since they perform different functions.
Using the Regal as the example and the requirement of 1 engineer per 100 tons of drives:
Starship without M-Drive
J-Drive 3,750 tons + Power Plant 9,000 tons = 12,750
12,750/100 = 127.5 round to 128
The total volume of the J-Drive and power plant appears to be equal to that of the M-Drive. If the math is correct then the M-Drive should have 128 engineers.
Spaceships cannot have a J-Drive
M-Drive 12,750 tons + Power Plant 9,000 tons = 21,750
21,750/100 = 217.5 round to 218.
Without the J-Drive the engineering crew is short 37 or 38 bodies.
To me the more accurate method is to determine the crews for each system since they perform different functions.
Using the Regal as the example and the requirement of 1 engineer per 100 tons of drives:
Starship without M-Drive
J-Drive 3,750 tons + Power Plant 9,000 tons = 12,750
12,750/100 = 127.5 round to 128
The total volume of the J-Drive and power plant appears to be equal to that of the M-Drive. If the math is correct then the M-Drive should have 128 engineers.
Spaceships cannot have a J-Drive
M-Drive 12,750 tons + Power Plant 9,000 tons = 21,750
21,750/100 = 217.5 round to 218.
Without the J-Drive the engineering crew is short 37 or 38 bodies.
probably admin ratings mentioned in the rules in Bk 2. Note that 3 admin are sufficient for 5KTd...
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
DonM thought they were the Medical Section and my math appeared to agree with that idea.
Wouldn't the 50% support personnel cover the Bk 2 admin ratings?
The Imperial Navy has trimmed admin ratings then since most of the commands I served on in the USN had way more than 3, of course I'm not sure if they for 5kTd either.
Have a good whatever time and thanks for the reply
Wouldn't the 50% support personnel cover the Bk 2 admin ratings?
The Imperial Navy has trimmed admin ratings then since most of the commands I served on in the USN had way more than 3, of course I'm not sure if they for 5kTd either.
Have a good whatever time and thanks for the reply
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