Dune

[Quint]

Lynch got a lot right in his film, but ruined it with the wierding module and the final scene.

The heart plugs were a bit unnecessary too.

I really liked the mini-series with the exception of the wooden horse they had playing Gurney and Paul was ten years too old.

Yeah, like I said, the Lynch movie has grown on me over the years. The whole Victorian thing I've appreciated more and more and originally it was what I hated, plus the somewhat cartoonish depiction of some of the characters.

LOL, I can't even remember who they had playing Gurney in the mini-series, that's sad.

D.

 

[Vargas]

The last time I read the book, last year I think, it struck me how untenable the system of interstellar governance was. I had a hard time seeing how it held together.

 

[whulorigan]

The last time I read the book, last year I think, it struck me how untenable the system of interstellar governance was. I had a hard time seeing how it held together.

More significantly, how did this social order seem to remain stable for almost 10,000 years!?! - Under a single Corrino-family dynasty yet!

 

[mike wightman]

There have only been 84 emperors in that time and instant travel between worlds.

 

[creativehum]

Also, travel between the stars is very expensive. Those who have the wealth can move resources freely. Those who do not -- do not.

 

[aramis]

I liked the SyFy movies better than the Lynch film, I really hated the Lych film when it came out though over the years it has grown on me. The SyFy movies capture how the books looked in my head far, far better than the Lynch film - plus they were more accurate to the texts themselves (wierding modules? heart-plugs? WTF?). Given the advances in CGI and the popularity of scifi, I'm happy to see a new big-budget film.

And yes, I think Fading Suns makes a great Dune sourcebook (I've used bits and bobs IMTU). I thought their personal shields worked great game-mechanic wise.

D.

Lynch got the look correct according to Frank Herbert... and much closer to the art used on the covers and in the AH Dune boardgame (all of which got approvals from Mr. Herbert).

 

[Quint]

Lynch got the look correct according to Frank Herbert... and much closer to the art used on the covers and in the AH Dune boardgame (all of which got approvals from Mr. Herbert).

I can easily believe that, and I suspect that's why it's grown on me over the years. In retrospect, the things I hated the most were the things that were additions (plus, the film version was much less coherent than the later version) and less the actual visual style.

D.

 

[SanDragon]

LOL, I can't even remember who they had playing Gurney in the mini-series, that's sad.

D.

IMDB says P. H. Moriarty (Patrick H.)

 

[David Johansen]

I love Dune and I'll disagree with a number of people on the nature of it. First off Duncan Idaho isn't the protagonist or the kizwitch hadarech though the Teliexu eventually make one of his ghola clones into something even more bizarre and pivotal.

I do feel that Dune isn't anymore Science Fiction than Starwars is. It's fantasy with futuristic trappings. The primary theme of the first two books is the paradox of prophecy and free will. Paul, a decent kid for a kid in a society where slavery, torture, and murder are all used by the 'good' guys desperately tries to avoid the future he sees. The thing is that Dune is this triumphant ride to glory and Dune Messiah is how Paul throws it all away trying to avoid what he has seen. People get hooked on the adventure story of the first book and disappointed by the politics of the second but the second is strongly forshadowed in the first.

I've actually been playing with the idea just recently. There's some rules stuff in with it but I'm thinking of going full on T5 as there are genetics rules and so forth.

Dune

Character Creation
Throw 2d6 for each of the following attributes: Strength, Dexterity, Endurance, Intelligence, Education, and Social Standing.

Career Experiences
Select a career and throw under the listed characteristic for Admission, Success, Survival, and Continue on 2d6. Admission is only rolled for the first term. If the Admission roll is successful the character obtains one level in the appropriate skill for their career and continues rolling for Success, Survival, and Continuing. If the character fails to enter their chosen career, the player may either have them submit to the draft, attend school, or live as a citizen. Remedial Education and Advanced Education are treated as careers but provide no mustering out benefits as tuition and living expenses consume all available resources.
Each 4 year term allows one skill to be improved by one level. Making a Success roll provides a promotion, an additional skill, and an additional Mustering Out Benefit roll. A failed survival roll requires a roll on the Hazard Table resulting in permanent loss of attribute points. If an attribute falls below 0 the character dies. The skills obtained, must be rolled for on the Personal Development, Career, or Advanced Education tables as chosen by the player.

Aging
Characters begin their careers at 18, fresh out of primary school and by 34 they are starting to slow down. Each term, after the third, the player must roll over Strength, Dexterity, and Endurance on two dice minus the number of terms served or lose one point from the characteristic being rolled against. As always, falling below 0 indicates that the character has died. The geriatric spice can be taken to avoid this but doing so costs the character one mustering out benefit.

A successful Continue roll allows the character to remain in their career for another four years. A failed roll means they must attempt to enter a new career or muster out immediately. If the second career roll fails they must muster out immediately.

Hazard Table (roll on failed survival)
1 -2 Strength
2 -2 Dexterity
3 -2 Endurance
4 -1 Strength and Dexterity
5 -1 Strength and Endurance
6 -1 Dexterity and Endurance

Mustering Out Table
1 1000 Credits
2 Blade
3 10000 Credits
4 Worker or Fighter Ally
5 100000 Credits
6 Doctor or Scientist Ally
7 Skill Appropriate Vehicle
8 Mystic or Merchant Ally
9 1000000 Credits
10 Noble or Assassin Ally

+0 Mystic, Outlander
+1 Fighter, Worker
+2 Doctor, Scientist
+3 Noble, Merchant
+1 Rank 5 or 6

Skills
Automatic
Blade - 0
Wheeled Vehicle - 0

Personal Development
1 +1 Strength
2 +1 Dexterity
3 +1 Endurance
4 +1 Intelligence
5 +1 Education
6 Brawling

Remedial Education
Admission Education 7- & Social Standing 7+
Success: Intelligence
Survival: Automatic
Continue: Education 7-)
+1 Education

Advanced Education
Admission: Education 8+
Success: Intelligence
Survival: Automatic
Continue: Education

1 Medicine
2 Computation
3 Biology
4 Chemistry
5 Physics
6 Sociology

Administrator
The vast resources of noble houses require incredible numbers of administrators.
Admission: Education
Success: Education
Survival: Education +2
Continue: Intelligence

Career Skill: Administration
1 Computation
2 Administration
3 Bribery
4 Streetwise
5 Steward
6 Wheeled Driver

Assassin
Assassination is a popular and acceptable legal tool in the empire. Professional assassins are considered a valuable resource by even the most upright houses.

Admission: Dexterity
Success: Intelligence
Survival: Intelligence - 2
Continue: Dexterity

Career Skill: Stealth
1 Blade
2 Remote Operator
3 Poison
4 Streetwise
5 Bribery
6 Stealth

Fighter
With shields rendering projectile weapons irrelevant on the battlefield, professional swordsmen are the military of the age.
Admission: Strength
Success: Dexterity
Survival: Endurance
Continue: Endurance

Career Skill: Blade
1 Blade
2 Sword
3 Crawler Driver
4 Ornithopter Pilot
5 Leadership
6 Tactics


Mystic
A mystic might be a witch, navigator, shape changer or even belong to some other esoteric order. In order to play a mystic an additional characteristic, “Talent” must be rolled, this characteristic is actually specific to the arts taught by the character’s specific school. The canonical schools are witches, navigators, and imitators.

Admission: Talent 2d6 8+
Success: Talent -2
Survival: Endurance
Continue: Intelligence

Career Skill: Talent
1 Administration
2 Brawling
3 Talent
4 Streetwise
5 Leadership
6 Steward

Merchant
Admission: Intelligence
Success: Intelligence
Survival: Education
Continue: Education

Career Skill: Merchant
1 Merchant
2 Administration
3 Wheeled Driver
4 Lighter Pilot
5 Bribery
6 Streetwise

Noble
The scions of noble houses form the elite and governing body of the empire. Nobles must be brilliant strategists, master manipulators, and students of the complex laws of inter-house warfare just to stay alive.
Admission: Social Standing
Success: Intelligence
Survival: Intelligence
Continue: Intelligence

Career Skill: Leadership
1 Sword
2 Blade
3 Administration
4 Tactics
5 Leadership
6 Ornithopter Pilot

Outsider
There are many fringe, wilderness areas where those who prefer freedom to the rigid caste structure dwell. These people are not particularly primitive but their societies do tend to be very self sufficient.

Admission: Social Standing +
Success: Endurance
Survival: Intelligence
Continue: Endurance

Career Skill: Survival
1 Survival
2 Blade
3 Projectile Weapon
4 Stealth
5 Mechanic
6 Leadership

Scientist
While technological development has been stagnant for millennia, there are always new things to research and study. The noble houses often sponsor the work of scientists as they seek any possible advantage over their rivals.

Admission: Intelligence - 2
Success: Education
Survival: Education + 2
Continue: Intelligence

Career Skill:
1 Biology
2 Chemistry
3 Physics
4 Administration
5 Sensors
6 Computation

Worker
In the stratified society of the empire, in the absence of automation, the work is still done by workers. A skilled worker is valued by their superiors.

Admission: Strength
Success: Education
Survival: Endurance
Continue: Endurance

Career Skill: Mechanic
1 Mechanic
2 Electronics
3 Wheeled Driver
4 Crawler Driver
5 Streetwise
6 Steward

“Talent”
This broad catchall covers the various special abilities learned in mystical schools. Each school has its specialities which are learned therein.

Immitators
The mystic can contort their body and face to imitate others with startling accuracy.

Navigator
Navigators scan the strands of the future for danger in order to guide starships through hyperspace. This ability affords them a monopoly on interstellar travel.

Witch
Witches study the smallest twitches and inflections to nearly read minds.

Success Rolls
Actions are resolved by rolling 2d6 and adding any skill level and the appropriate attribute. If the character does not have the necessary skill only half the attribute is added. If the total exceeds 15 the action succeeds.

Anyhow, I'm noodling around with rules for great and minor houses at the moment.

 

[kilemall]

Lynch got the look correct according to Frank Herbert... and much closer to the art used on the covers and in the AH Dune boardgame (all of which got approvals from Mr. Herbert).

I liked playing the boardgame far more then watching any of the film/miniseries.

I sold my group a minor but big tweak to that game- for every member of an alliance, you had to hold 1 more victory territory. So for 2 members it was 4 control spaces, 3 members 5, and 4+ all 6. Made it nail-biting.

 

[Condottiere]

Herbert's writing style feels claustrophobic, and Dune was no exception.

It did allow a tight focus on the characters, and in that sense, Lynch, whether on purpose or not, transferred that to the big screen, which doesn't like static images.

Depending on the message the production team wants to send or just discuss, you could have Lawrence of Arabia or a first person shooter video game.

 

[kilemall]

You missed Mentats as a career, I don't think Administrator quite covers it.

There are also science and study disciplines, both Tlielaxu and Gesserit being students of genetics, Gesserit of psychology, Guild and Mentat mathematics, and of course plenty of mercantile action with CHOAM having more murderous consequences to production/market access and control.

 

[aramis]

You missed Mentats as a career, I don't think Administrator quite covers it.

There are also science and study disciplines, both Tlielaxu and Gesserit being students of genetics, Gesserit of psychology, Guild and Mentat mathematics, and of course plenty of mercantile action with CHOAM having more murderous consequences to production/market access and control.

Bene Gesserit are genetics and psychology. Plus Psionics-Awareness.
Bene Tleilax are genetics and (essentially) shapeshifting.
Guild is psionics - teleport and teleperception, as well as a dabble in precognition.
Mentats are Mathematics and History, as well as lightning calculator.

Traveller doesn't feel like a good fit for Dune as Dune to me; LUG Dune was a worse one.

 

[Moebius]

What would a "Traveller; DUNE" supplement look like or have in it?

I felt that the D6 books for the Metabarons setting was a good Dune-esque RPG. Naturally, if you're familiar with what Metabarons is all about.

 

[David Johansen]

You missed Mentats as a career, I don't think Administrator quite covers it.

There are also science and study disciplines, both Tlielaxu and Gesserit being students of genetics, Gesserit of psychology, Guild and Mentat mathematics, and of course plenty of mercantile action with CHOAM having more murderous consequences to production/market access and control.

The thing is that you can be a mentat assassin or administrator or noble, so I treated it as a skill. I also, somewhat filed off the serial numbers on things, but if you look at the section on talents for the Mystic career it covers Face Dancers, Bene Gesseret, and Guild Navigators.

I tend towards thinking of Traveller careers as broad categories rather than specific positions. Anyhow, it's just a rough draft and I'm thinking about redoing it as a T5 thing.

A few notes, worlds will always have the same government: Feudal Technocracy. Shields are completely impenetrable. A personal shield will stop a spinal mount weapon. Shields have a threshold setting that determines how much damage can pass through. They can be set to a nothing gets through, not even air, else chemical warfare and poison gas would be more commonly used. Lower settings will drain the batteries faster.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I have always thought in comparison of the two, for the most part, the storytelling and acting is more accessible in the miniseries, but the movie looks much cooler.

Ian McNice, much more accessible and fun to watch.

 

[Kilgs]

Just read it again, for what must be the tenth+ time.

I don't know if it's me getting older, but there is an awful lot more to that book this time I read it than in years gone by - if that makes any sense to you

Yep. Happened to me about eight years ago. I decided to prep for a binge on the SciFi Channel mini-series by reading the book. It had been at least a decade or so. One of those books where you keep finding more and more nuggets.

On a sidenote, isn't that the BEST? Being able to go back and discover new things about an old favorite. I fricking love reading.

 

[mike wightman]

I'll let you know - my wife just got me a brand new paperback copy for our anniversary so I will be reading it again over the coming few days.

This time I am keeping a notebook by my side as I read.

 

[aramis]

Yep. Happened to me about eight years ago. I decided to prep for a binge on the SciFi Channel mini-series by reading the book. It had been at least a decade or so. One of those books where you keep finding more and more nuggets.

On a sidenote, isn't that the BEST? Being able to go back and discover new things about an old favorite. I fricking love reading.

The whole series has a lot going on that few get on first read. It's one of the most convoluted reads I've experienced.

 

[Timerover51]

I read Dune for the first and only time when it was serialized in Analog. One thing that always bugged me in reading the story is: What is producing the oxygen on the planet?